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Old 11-25-2010   #141
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Default Re: keep kubiak

I'm perfectly fine with keeping Kubiak if McNair insists on a DC that will challenge Kubes for the HC job. Bring in Marv Lewis when he gets fired or Wade Phillips, who can take over 5 games in if Kubes fails again. Just like Kubes likes to have everyone challenge every position on the field, have coaches behind HIM that can challenge him for his position.
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Old 11-26-2010   #142
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by wildroot View Post
That's my point, if McNair knew then what he knows now Kubiak would never have gotten the job. He's been "underwhelming" to say the least.
LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.

If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.
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Old 11-26-2010   #143
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Decisions made by Kubiak, however, impacted the results you described. Kubiak didn't play Arian Foster while Slaton was "fumbling a(ll) over the place" and Chris Brown was failing.
Yeah Foster's debut sure was impressive. Averaged a whopping 2.6 ypc. I mean it was obvious he was going to blow up from that especially with Moats averaging a meager 4.3 ypc in the same game. But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier. OK. And yes pass blocking is important in this offense. Arian is getting it now. He threw a critical and excellent block on a TD play last week.
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Old 11-26-2010   #144
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah Foster's debut sure was impressive. Averaged a whopping 2.6 ypc. I mean it was obvious he was going to blow up from that especially with Moats averaging a meager 4.3 ypc in the same game. But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier. OK. And yes pass blocking is important in this offense. Arian is getting it now. He threw a critical and excellent block on a TD play last week.

Also, as has been mentioned several times, Foster wasn't doing well initially but at some point late in the season "the light switched on" and he began to impress in practices. The flat-earthers want to pretend Foster was drafted by someone else and is successful in spite of, rather than due to, anything the coaches have done.

To sum up their argument: "Stupidak had the NFL's leading rusher just sitting on the practice squad all last season when he was trotting out Chris Brown every game. More PROOF Stupidak can't evaluate talent!!!!!!!"
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Old 11-26-2010   #145
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier.
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Also, as has been mentioned several times, Foster wasn't doing well initially but at some point late in the season "the light switched on" and he began to impress in practices.
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.
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Old 11-26-2010   #146
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.

Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!
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Old 11-26-2010   #147
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!
If you want to give Kubiak & Smith credit for signing Foster as an UDFA, great. I have no problem with that. Overall, I don't think they've done a bad job bringing in talent (though the best year, 2006, was without Smith).

The problem I have is with the development of the talent. The problem I have is with how the talent is deployed on the field. The problem I have is with the results. I don't think everything Kubiak & Smith have touched is garbage. Just that after 5 years, the smell is bad.
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Old 11-26-2010   #148
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Thumbs down Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I don't think everything Kubiak & Smith have touched is garbage. Just that after 5 years, the smell is bad.
Now that's a very reasoned statement and one I can agree with. I'll say this, I don't like Cowher or Gruden as I believe they're success was largely complementary to their skills. I'm not married to Kubiak. If one of those guys comes in then I'll support him whole-heartedly because I support the team.

My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty
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Old 11-26-2010   #149
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.
I never claimed to know what happened on the practice field.

Never said Kubiak put Foster on at the exact right moment. Just saying putting Foster on the field against a D that gave up 4.1 ypc on the season and having him run for 2.6 ypc (when Moats got 4.3 ypc) wasn't an inspiration for obviously this guy should be out there. Then he fumbled on his 3rd touch of the next game. I like Arian but I think looking at today's results and saying Kubiak is an id!ot for not starting him earlier is absurd.

As for proof, look above again to Foster's first game where scrub Moats left him in the dust. And again we all know pass blocking was why Brown was in the game. This year with a running game that decision would make less sense as we are less pass dependent. Last year pass blocking was more important than running since the running was so poor.

And hey, I love Arian but he really looks like he worked hard in the off-season to increase his shiftiness and/or understand the system. Last year in the last two games he was good at giving what the OL gave him and using his size. This year he is on a different level making small movements in space, hesitation, etc. I mean c'mon, some folks after last season were saying let's give Foster more time. Most were saying we need another RB. Nobody was saying Foster will lead the league and be beating Chris Johnson.
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Old 11-26-2010   #150
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by thegr8fan View Post
actually TK, my post was MORE about their prospective records, than playoffs. Most on here know that making a playoff as an NFC team is easier than an AFC team. But a win/loss record is very indicative of a coach's ability to COACH.

Childress and Phillips didn't exactly take over the Colts team, either. They both had to build and use what talent was available to them to win games, IMHO.

win-loss records are pretty stand alone barometer's of a Head Coach's ability in this league. Both those guys were fired. With winning records. Kubiak doesn't even have that. Yet he is still here and entrenched in his position. HMMMM
Other than being hired the same year, there are huge differences between Kubiak & those coaches.

Those coaches stepped into head coaching situations & had to get a group of guys ready to play football.

Kubiak stepped into a franchise that didn't know the first thing about contract negotiations, he appointed our GM, & they rebuilt this franchise from the ground up..... not just the team.

If McNair continues with Kubiak I'm sure he'll be taking that into consideration.

I personally don't care. I want the Texans to win, if that means we need to split ways with Kubiak, then that's what I want done. I only hope McNair brings someone in, who knows what he's talking about, not only to decide that Kubiak needs to go.... but also on who replaces him.

10 years with no chance at a Super Bowl is bad..... 15 would be worse... 20 even more so.... etc, etc, etc...

At the very least, I hope he spends several days on this message board reading all the possible solutions.
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Old 11-26-2010   #151
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
That's certainly a part of it. But Kubiak is there when the defense is installed. Through the OTCs, mini camps, and training camp. And he can't see that what's coached won't work? He watches film of the horrendous defensive performances, and has no input or advice on how to correct these mistakes that occur, game after game?

I've said this for 3 seasons now, and I guess I have to say it again. Gary Kubiak is not the Houston Texans head coach of the offense. He's the Houston Texans head coach. He's not made of teflon. Whatever happens on the field is a direct reflection of his ability to coach a NFL team. And after 5 years, Gary Kubiak has proven to be not good enough. It's as simple as that.
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I know there are a lot of people here, who know more about football than I do. But some of these arguments don't make sense.

#1. If you don't make the play-offs, you're a bad team? The Patriots went 12-4 one year, & didn't make the play-offs. That's not the norm, I understand that, but good teams miss out on the play-offs all the time. Last year's Steelers, won the Super Bowl the year before, they are basically the same team they are now.... but they missed the play-offs in 2009. Same coach, same team.

#2. I look at those records, the Phillips with the Cowboys, Childress with the Vikings, & to me it looks like Kubiak has done a heck of a coaching job, considering the teams those guys had, and the guys we had.

#3. The biggest difference between the Cowboys/Vikings & the Texans, is that their play has got progressively worse, ours has got better. The last 4 games have actually been the better from a football standpoint than the first 4, even though we won 3 of the first 4, and lost all of the last 4, we have been playing better lately.

& I'm not making crap up, or saying things to be controversial, or to get a rise out of certain posters. That's my honest opinion.

If you don't agree... fine. If you think ill of me... fine. If you think I'm off my rocker... whatever.
1. The Patriots were 11-5 when they missed the playoffs in 2008. A very rare occurrence in the NFL. I'm not sure where your examples apply to the Texans, though, as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???

2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure. Gary has been mediocre - AT HIS BEST - and there appears to be no accountability in his future from what we can tell. Maybe the owner is keeping his cards close to to his chest, but the case can also be made that his M.O. is to give mediocre results the so-called "benefit of the doubt" by granting more and more chances. Differences in owners that demand and expect success versus one that seems to value other traits not based so much on success.

3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better? See, you must quantify results by different standards than most other folks, and perhaps your mentality is akin to that of Bob McNair. As long as the kids play hard then success is subjective, while the rest of us have one standard to apply: scoreboard.

I don't think you're off your rocker, but I do think that you should be reported for bong abuse.
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Old 11-26-2010   #152
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty
I'll agree with this.

If Kubiak has to go, let's make sure we get the right guy next year.
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Old 11-26-2010   #153
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits.
These teams would be more stable, had they better results. With many of these teams (Lions, Skins, Niners) the problems are/were at the top of the organizational chart. Matt Millen could hire any coach, but would still be saddled with Matt Millen the GM.

The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.
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Old 11-26-2010   #154
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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These teams would be more stable, had they better results.
Chicken or egg argument. And the Lions have been cellar dwellers for longer than Matt Millen has been alive, much less as their GM.

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The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.
Smith was meant to be that guy. Because he hasn't performed well doesn't mean he was without proper credentials.
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Old 11-26-2010   #155
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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1....as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???
Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.
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2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure.
Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.


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3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better?
If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.
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Old 11-26-2010   #156
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Smith was meant to be that guy.
Smith is a Friend of Kubiak. A lackey. He's a novice GM and not at all what I'm referring to when I say "football guy".
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Old 11-26-2010   #157
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.

If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.
No, I wasn't serious. I just think if McNair knew then what he knows now someone else would have gotten the job. Of course now he's stuck trying to be positive about the whole fiasco and say all the right things.
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Old 11-26-2010   #158
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!
Or good thing Arian Foster chose to come here or Kubiak and Smith would've never known what Foster would've became.

Foster chose us, because he felt he could beat out every back on our team (and this was after Slaton's stellar rookie season)....and he was right.


It's sad he didn't get his chance until our doors were blown off and the season was over. And I don't care about what stats he put up in his debut. He was the best back on the team the minute he started getting significant touches. He was the only back who could/can do crap in the red zone...which was the biggest weakness all last season. This is the reason why I'm curious to see who can be our "late season when everything has gone to shit and it's too late to salvage the season" break out player on defense this season.

Honestly Ryan Moats is not even a capable NFL RB on a good NFL team with depth and Chris Brown was washed up damaged goods who was living off of one decent year he had like 6 years before. It was obvious Steve Slaton was not the same back (Hell I made a thread about it during the preseason last year), yet Kubiak just continued to allow him to fumble our season away and continued to act like the other bums were far more superior to a UDFA rookie. (and please don't bring up pass protection, because Moats and Slaton were horrible also....and it's not like C. Brown was elite).

LOL sorry, but I don't see how anybody in their right mind can defend this coach as far as the running game goes. His decisions with regards to the running game have been down right horrible (Ahman Green anyone) and he just happened to luck into stumbling upon a beast known as Arian Foster.

What has Kubiak really accomplished here??? (Can somebody please list all of Kubiak's accomplishments that make him deserving of being our head coach next season)

In 5 years he's managed to build a roster that excels at playing patty cake football....nothing else. No divisional titles, no playoff seasons, nothing that really has any substance, just like his football team. (LMAO at celebrating 9-7...oh that still kills me)

Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it. Where's the substance...there is none.

We can finally have a elite RB who leads the league in yards and TDs, but where is that translating into wins? Kubiak sometimes even pulls Foster our of the game when we're in the red zone or in crucial situations....Where's the substance, there is none.

And last but certainly not least.....the freaking defense. Statistically (there's that word again) they were one of the best defenses in the league over the last 13 games.. That means little now though, because Kubiak's "hand picked guy" and the man he wanted from day one of his tenure here is some how plausibly worse than his predecessor, who many felt was one of the worst D coordinators they've ever seen at the NFL level. (Yes Richard Smith was that bad). How can Kubiak make those type of mistakes?


I'm tired of hearing about stats and how GREAT Kubiak's offense is.......because it's not, it's overhyped. Kubiak is a soft coach, who coaches players to be soft, and he builds soft football teams. I'm done with it. The thing that'll really stick in my head about this season is the NY Jets Halftime Stats graphic they put up before the start of the 3rd quarter. Houston led in every freaking category, except the score on the scoreboard. That's sums up Kubiak's entire head coaching career. In the stats that REALLY matter, the stats that everyone really care about, he's one of the worst in the business. Wins and Losses.....wins and losses in November and wins and losses within the division. Those are the stats that separate the good contending teams from the perennial "up and comers".
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Old 11-26-2010   #159
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.
Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.
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Old 11-26-2010   #160
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Default Re: keep kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...ne-scoring-pct

Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).

I'm pretty sure the percentage is percentage of TD's - FG's don't count.
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