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Old 11-19-2010   #1
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Default Is our defense full of scrubs?

I was listening to the radio today, and they were making the point that hardly anyone on our defense would go to most other NFL teams and be a starter.

They said our defense was full of scrubs.

My first reaction was that they were crazy. We have talent, right?

But after thinking about it for a while...I cannot say that I totally disagree with them.

They went through the starters and as they called them off I felt completely underwhelmed.

Then they started talking about depth and I wanted to spit.

Now I'm a bit confused on where to direct my anger over the defenses ineptitude. Is Frank Bush a bigger problem than the people in charge of getting him good players?

Is Kubiak more at fault for hiring the position coaches and having so many players regress or not get better? Could our defenders play better in a better scheme?

Is our defense full of scrubs and is this really mostly on Bush?

Personally, I'm a little tiny bit less upset with Bush. I think there are several reasons for our defensive woes and I think he is just a malfunctioning cog in this whole mess. The defense is not loaded with talent, but I don't think he calls the best plays either.
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Old 11-19-2010   #2
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Part of how good a player is is how well they are taught to play. Considering that all our defensive players get worse AS PLAYERS the longer they are here, I'd say we have talented players that are literally being de-coached into bad players.

And that's to say nothing about the scheme that sets them up to fail.
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Old 11-19-2010   #3
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

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Originally Posted by wagonhed View Post
Part of how good a player is is how well they are taught to play. Considering that all our defensive players get worse AS PLAYERS the longer they are here, I'd say we have talented players that are literally being de-coached into bad players.

And that's to say nothing about the scheme that sets them up to fail.
The bolded part is a theory that I personally subscribe very heavily to.
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Old 11-19-2010   #4
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

No, Scrubs was funny to watch. This is just embarrasing.

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Old 11-19-2010   #5
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I was listening to the radio today, and they were making the point that hardly anyone on our defense would go to most other NFL teams and be a starter.

They said our defense was full of scrubs.

My first reaction was that they were crazy. We have talent, right?

But after thinking about it for a while...I cannot say that I totally disagree with them.

They went through the starters and as they called them off I felt completely underwhelmed.

Then they started talking about depth and I wanted to spit.

Now I'm a bit confused on where to direct my anger over the defenses ineptitude. Is Frank Bush a bigger problem than the people in charge of getting him good players?

Is Kubiak more at fault for hiring the position coaches and having so many players regress or not get better? Could our defenders play better in a better scheme?

Is our defense full of scrubs and is this really mostly on Bush?

Personally, I'm a little tiny bit less upset with Bush. I think there are several reasons for our defensive woes and I think he is just a malfunctioning cog in this whole mess. The defense is not loaded with talent, but I don't think he calls the best plays either.
I think it's easy as a fan to say "Wow we have so many great players!" just because we saw where they were drafted, and so we get overconfident. However I think there is real talent on this team.

Look at the Jets, all I can name is Revis and Cromartie and Jenkins, I don't know one other player. They are coached well, and have personell that fit the scheme. Our team seems like an uncoached hodge podge. The Cover 2 has a weakness that our personell can't overcome. We need a new DC that can figure out to use what we have, and build from there IMHO.
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Old 11-19-2010   #6
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

We probably have 2-3 defensive players that successful teams would want right now, and that says it all.

We could blame the suckiness on the players, after all, they do play the game. But who picked those players? And why are the same players getting worse? All signs point to coaches with those questions.
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Old 11-19-2010   #7
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Go down the list and see for yourself:

Starters:
Mario- Superstar talent, scrub effort
Okoye- Joke. A bad one at that. Scrub deluxe.
Cody- Journeyman scrub.
Smith- don't know what to say other than not a scrub. not the best but not a scrub.
Cushing- well....he's playing like a scrub but i won't label him that just yet
Ryans- not a scrub even on one leg
Diles- getting scrubbier all the time
Jackson- scrub with upward potential
Wilson- total scrub
Pollard- scrub in coverage
Quin- best scrub on the team
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Old 11-19-2010   #8
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Williams, Smith, Ryans, Cushing (maybe)

There, we have 4 NFL quality starters.
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Old 11-19-2010   #9
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Williams, Smith, Cush, Meco...are stars/pro-bowlers/solid starters

Jackson and Quin COULD be good starters...with no PR they look like they have little to no potential...

Our safeties are good for hard hits, but that's it. You might think I meant tackling, but I'm not. Their techniques are pretty bad when it comes to simple tackling.

Okoye could (emphasis on could, folks) be a big time DT if there was a space eater taking heat off him.

Cody is...ehh.
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Old 11-19-2010   #10
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaShark316 View Post
Williams, Smith, Cush, Meco...are stars/pro-bowlers/solid starters

Jackson and Quin COULD be good starters...with no PR they look like they have little to no potential...

Our safeties are good for hard hits, but that's it. You might think I meant tackling, but I'm not. Their techniques are pretty bad when it comes to simple tackling.

Okoye could (emphasis on could, folks) be a big time DT if there was a space eater taking heat off him.

Cody is...ehh.
I'm sure it it'll come to me later, but I'm drawing a blank...What is PR?
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Old 11-19-2010   #11
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Williams, Smith, Ryans, Cushing (maybe)

There, we have 4 NFL quality starters.
And without Ryans, we have 2 or 3?

And Honestly folks, Demeco isn't a big time play maker...Solid guy, good at leading the team...But he doesn't pop off the screen like he used to.

I'm still torn....I can't decide if it's completely on the coaches or if we should have been able to get some better players in here by now.
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Old 11-19-2010   #12
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
And without Ryans, we have 2 or 3?

And Honestly folks, Demeco isn't a big time play maker...Solid guy, good at leading the team...But he doesn't pop off the screen like he used to.

I'm still torn....I can't decide if it's completely on the coaches or if we should have been able to get some better players in here by now.
Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
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Old 11-19-2010   #13
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I'm sure it it'll come to me later, but I'm drawing a blank...What is PR?
Pass Rush
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Old 11-19-2010   #14
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

We are never going to have a defense full of pro-bowlers. No team will have that. It is all about getting the best out of what you have, and playing to their strengths. There are lots of areas for our defense to improve, but think about what a difference having a quality CB would do for us. It would push everybody down the depth chart one spot and improve the D a whole lot. We don't need an over hall, just some adjustments.
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Old 11-19-2010   #15
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
Colts - Freeny, Mathis, Bethea, Bullet, Sessions..
Tacks - Babbin, Finnegan (Gag), Verner (The rookie), Tulloch, Hope/Griffin..
Jags - Uh. Theres a reason why they compete with us on the worse D in the league..
Jets - Scott, Cromartie, Revis, Rex Ryan..Hell, I dont know on here..Jenkins when healthy,
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Old 11-19-2010   #16
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
We probably have 2-3 defensive players that successful teams would want right now, and that says it all.

We could blame the suckiness on the players, after all, they do play the game. But who picked those players? And why are the same players getting worse? All signs point to coaches with those questions.
I would say we have 2-3 players that teams covet, but I would say that there are a lot of teams that sign almost anyone of our starters. Not saying they'd all be starters, but they would all probably end up on a team. Except for Wilson, of course he did have one good game this year.....
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Old 11-19-2010   #17
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Shaun Cody did come from the 0-16 lions if thats not scrub i dont know what is
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Old 11-20-2010   #18
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Section516 View Post
Colts - Freeny, Mathis, Bethea, Bullet, Sessions..
Tacks - Babbin, Finnegan (Gag), Verner (The rookie), Tulloch, Hope/Griffin..
Jags - Uh. Theres a reason why they compete with us on the worse D in the league..
Jets - Scott, Cromartie, Revis, Rex Ryan..Hell, I dont know on here..Jenkins when healthy,
Good try, but see, it's not that easy!
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Old 11-20-2010   #19
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Can anybody name 4 quality starters on each team in the NFL?
Colts D?
Tacks D?
Jags D?
Jets D?

Quickly!
Yes, I can very easily.

Is this a serious question?

Colts, Tacks, and Jets easily have more quality defensive players than we do. I don't even know how that is even a real point of debate.
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Old 11-20-2010   #20
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Default Re: Is our defense full of scrubs?

All teams have fill-in players. It is the nature of a salary cap league that you can't keep a team of stars for very long.

That's why you get a quality coordinator who has a proven system that can take stars and surround them with pieces that can help them be successful--doesn't mean more young defensive players.

The Texans don't have a ton of superstars on offense. But the people they have fit what they do. They've drafted for that need, and they pick up vet players to fit spots.

I've been trying to figure out what defense the Texans are trying to emulate philosophically for a while. Think of the successful 4-3s that are out there--which one are the Texans trying to build themselves into?

I can't think of a successful defense that was built on the all young player/unproven D coordinator model.
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