Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2010   #1
dream_team
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,464
Rep Power: 23265 dream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respected
Default The screen that was called back

Can someone explain to me why the long screen play to Foster was called back? I think the penalty was a hold on AJ. On the replay, it looks like he's simply running his route as usual and he accidentally collides with a Jags defender.

Should have this been a no-call? Or in this situation, is it the receiver's responsibility to get out of the way?

I know this is a moot point, since we ended up scoring a few plays later... but I just like to be cleared up on the ruling.
dream_team is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010   #2
dream_team
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,464
Rep Power: 23265 dream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respecteddream_team is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

sorry... i see the play is already discussed in this thread.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77607
dream_team is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010   #3
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,725
Rep Power: 55500 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dream_team View Post
Can someone explain to me why the long screen play to Foster was called back? I think the penalty was a hold on AJ. On the replay, it looks like he's simply running his route as usual and he accidentally collides with a Jags defender.

Should have this been a no-call? Or in this situation, is it the receiver's responsibility to get out of the way?

I know this is a moot point, since we ended up scoring a few plays later... but I just like to be cleared up on the ruling.

It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.
__________________
obsessive, passionate coverage of our beloved Texans at : Texans Bull Blog
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010   #4
hookinreds
Hall of Fame
 
hookinreds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Round Rock
Age: 44
Posts: 1,139
Rep Power: 5747 hookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respectedhookinreds is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.
WOW! That's a new one to me, I didn't know that rule. No, I'm not quoting Kubiak. I really didn't know that.
hookinreds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #5
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,413
Rep Power: 105157 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.
AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.

The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #6
Texas T
Hall of Fame
 
Texas T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Age: 41
Posts: 1,770
Rep Power: 17309 Texas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.

The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.
I believe you are right and it looked like AJ was running his route and they bumped into each other-probably could have been called on the LB too...
Texas T is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #7
TexansBlood
The CUSH!
 
TexansBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 607
Rep Power: 7456 TexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansBlood is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Here's what Gary Kubiak said when asked about it.



H: Seemed like you had lengthy conversation after PI on Andre Johnson. Can you explain?

GK: Not allowed to pick anyone. If running shallow cross route, and Andre was, Andre and WILL LB ran into each other. Hard call to live with. Splitting hairs how deep it happened. Disagreed with the call but we'll see what league says.

H: Make sure I understand, the LB can hit the WR in the box but WR cant hit LB?

GK: Yeah, I belive it's a 5 yard box. It's a judgement call. Were you running a pick or running a route. I thought Andre was running a route.
TexansBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 11-16-2010   #8
HuttoKarl
Hall of Fame
 
HuttoKarl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,666
Rep Power: 2801 HuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respectedHuttoKarl is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas T View Post
I believe you are right and it looked like AJ was running his route and they bumped into each other-probably could have been called on the LB too...
No...that would be a penalty call going in Houston's favor...that's against the rules.
__________________
HuttoKarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #9
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,725
Rep Power: 55500 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.
There is an ammendment to this rule that states that players can be engaged in blocking when the ball thrown if the ball is thrown and completed behind the line of scrimmage. I'm not making that up. That is why you don't see pass interference on screen passes despite the fact that often another WR or OL man is actually blocking the player attempting to cover the screen pass.
__________________
obsessive, passionate coverage of our beloved Texans at : Texans Bull Blog
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #10
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,413
Rep Power: 105157 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
There is an ammendment to this rule that states that players can be engaged in blocking when the ball thrown if the ball is thrown and completed behind the line of scrimmage. I'm not making that up. That is why you don't see pass interference on screen passes despite the fact that often another WR or OL man is actually blocking the player attempting to cover the screen pass.
I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. Plus, there are interferences called all the time for blocking down field before the ball reaches the receiver.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #11
DerekLee1
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 1687 DerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respectedDerekLee1 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. Plus, there are interferences called all the time for blocking down field before the ball reaches the receiver.
Correct. If a receiver makes contact with a defender before the ball lands in a receiver's hands, it's offensive pass interference (PI if it's the receiver that catches the ball, a "pick" if it's a receiver NOT catching the ball). However, if a receiver is running a route and makes INCIDENTAL contact with a defender, that's NOT pass interference, particularly if it's withing 5 yards of the LOS. Much like KW against Jacksonville last year. It's a heavy route-based offense that puts TE's and receivers all over the field at various times, and we get screwed on it from time to time. Offensive picks should be reviewable at the very least.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroGSXR View Post
My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
DerekLee1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #12
Dutchrudder 
COOL BEANS!
 
Dutchrudder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston
Section: Fort Kickass
Age: 30
Posts: 15,063
Rep Power: 150980 Dutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Here's what I found about PI rules:

http://www.footballscrimmage.com/nfl...rference.shtml



Quote:
Pass Interference

1. There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer�s hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone.

...
Actions that constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched.

(b) Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.

(c) Driving through a defender who has established a position on the field.
Screens are generally setup to where the blockers are behind the LOS before the ball is caught.
__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde
Dutchrudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #13
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,413
Rep Power: 105157 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Here's what I found about PI rules:

http://www.footballscrimmage.com/nfl...rference.shtml
That just means there can't be interference called if contact was made with the actual receiver behind the LOS. It does not matter where the ball is thrown.

In the end, whether AJ's penalty was incedental was a judgment call and obviously the ref thought it was purposely done.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010   #14
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,831
Rep Power: 216695 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: The screen that was called back

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.
Kubiak could have kissed his ass right there, that ref wouldn't have changed their call.

If another referee saw it differently, one with a better view, one with that responsibility, they would pick up the flag.

Because a coach understands the rule better than the ref..... never.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger