Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2005   #141
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
. I am very curious to see what other teams are willing to pay him.
I am curious too, but we know that Greenwood was overpaid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005   #142
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,701
Rep Power: 47328 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

SES, you are very bull-headed. As I've said, the reason a team would trade for Sharper is to secure him. If that wanted him, they could get him with certainly through a trade. Now, if they want him, they have to bid with other teams and are left waiting on Sharper's decision as to where he wants to play.

Also, my point about Greenwood is that he's not overpaid. If he doesn't turn out to be a high quality LB, he will have been paid the equivalent of a borderline starter for three seasons and then can be dumped for a small cap hit after that. If he is good, then the team can choose to pay the balooned amount of $6 million the final two seasons.

Finally, if the Texans have cap room this season and they are on a five year plan, why wouldn't they absorb the whole cap hit this year so that they are free and clear of Sharper's cap hit next season- that way they can go after a bigger free agent.
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005   #143
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
SES, you are very bull-headed. As I've said, the reason a team would trade for Sharper is to secure him. If that wanted him, they could get him with certainly through a trade. Now, if they want him, they have to bid with other teams and are left waiting on Sharper's decision as to where he wants to play.

Also, my point about Greenwood is that he's not overpaid. If he doesn't turn out to be a high quality LB, he will have been paid the equivalent of a borderline starter for three seasons and then can be dumped for a small cap hit after that. If he is good, then the team can choose to pay the balooned amount of $6 million the final two seasons.

Finally, if the Texans have cap room this season and they are on a five year plan, why wouldn't they absorb the whole cap hit this year so that they are free and clear of Sharper's cap hit next season- that way they can go after a bigger free agent.
Yes I am bull-headed, but this is just how I honestly feel.

Sure they could have offered a deal with the Texans, but maybe the Texans were asking too much (I have no idea what they were looking for) or they were waiting for him to get cut and not too many would be interested. Even if teams have to go into a bidding war it would still be less than having to pick up the last year of his salary AND a draft pick or other player. With so many teams switching to the 3-4 this year it is beyond me why we couldn't have gotten SOMETHING for Sharper. Would you not agree that it is odd we didn't even get a 7th round draft pick for him? MAybe the Texans felt that a 7th rounder is really worth it and just released him, who knows.

I'm not so bull-headed to see that you make a good point about Greenwood. He may turn out to be a cheap player with decent skills. I tend to think that Greenwood is just an average player who is of lesser talent than Sharper and we are losing a good player because he was in the doghouse about how this team is progressing. I contend that Sharper had a down year by comparision to his previous years, but didn't have an aweful on for him to be cut. Was he worth the $6 mil? Only next season will we be able tell how much leadership and experience we are actually losing.

As far as your comment on taking the whole cap hit this year, it's just a matter of how you view things. Some GM's like to spread it out, some don't. My case is that if we are going to be competitive next year then I'd like to bring in a player this year to be in our system, gel with the players and learn the plays, develop relationships and cohesion, then next year we will have experience, something I feel we have lacked the most with all of our shifting of players, injuries and noobies.

Last edited by SESupergenius; 04-05-2005 at 02:58 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005   #144
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,494
Rep Power: 269149 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
I am curious too, but we know that Greenwood was overpaid.
I don't get into the certainty of knowing what players are worth--just like draft position, there is no bar code where you can ring them up and see what is "fair value." IMO what you see every year is a creep in contracts--more money to go around in the cap so comparable players 2-3 years apart in signing get more money. Nonetheless, people express surprise at many of the FA signings every year as if teams are overpaying. Riddle me this--when was the last time you heard of a FA acquisition where everyone went oohhhh he got underpaid?
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005   #145
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
-when was the last time you heard of a FA acquisition where everyone went oohhhh he got underpaid?
That doesn't work either, they are ALL overpaid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #146
TEXANS84
Moderator
 
TEXANS84's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 7,477
Rep Power: 3262 TEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TEXANS84 Send a message via Yahoo to TEXANS84
Default

Bengals | Talks Continue With Sharper - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:18:14 -0700

Updating ongoing reports, according to Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com, the Cincinnati Bengals are currently negotiating a contract with free agent LB Jamie Sharper (Texans).
TEXANS84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #147
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

IMO we did overpay for Greenwood. Not because of what he MIGHT do. He could very well fit better in our system better than in Miami's. It is like when A-Rod got that $25 million a year contract. Were we bidding against ourselves or was there really that much of a demand for this guy? Allegedly he had 12 teams interested in him, but his agent steered him towards the Texans for some reason. Greenwood said his agent told him, "Go visit Houston first. You will fall in love with the team." or something to that effect.

As for Sharper's dead money, he is in the last year of his contract. Lets say we had cut him after June 1, could we have counted part of the dead money towards 2006 even though his contract expired in 2005? I guess that is an AJ question. I was just curious.

During their negotiations for a contract extension, I have a feeling they were way off in their figures. It probably became very apparent that Sharper would leave after 2005. If that is the case, why pay him that large cap figure for 2005? We are already going to count his remaining signing bonus regardless, so why not move on to our new plan?
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 04-06-2005   #148
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,494
Rep Power: 269149 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
IMO we did overpay for Greenwood.
I am just curious how people form their opinions of market value. What was the "fair" market value and how did you come to form it?

Kendrell Bell (coming off shoulder and groin injuries--not exactly highspots in Texans history) got a larger bonus and contract. Yes his original upside may justify a higher contract than Greenwood, but how much do you discount for the injuries? What was his fair market value without the injury concerns?

Edgerton Hartwell got a very similar contract to Greenwood. Maybe his fmv should be higher than Greenwood's, but then again he doesn't seem to fit what the Texans were looking for in a speedy coverage LB. Was there another FA LB who actually filled the same profile/role as Greenwood?

IMO the comparisons are so hard to make (player athleticism, experience, age, injuries and fit for the system) and the sample sizes for comparison so small it is very hard to form hard and fast ideas on fmv.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #149
TEXANS84
Moderator
 
TEXANS84's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 7,477
Rep Power: 3262 TEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANS84 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TEXANS84 Send a message via Yahoo to TEXANS84
Default

Sharper visiting the Seahawks tomorrow:

Article

Quote:
Jamie Sharper, the former Houston Texans linebacker whose services are being sought by at least eight teams, is scheduled to visit with the Seahawks in Kirkland tomorrow.

Sharper, released by Houston last week for salary-cap purposes, is still believed a longshot to sign with the Seahawks. That is in large part because of his unfamiliarity with the Seattle front office and coaching staff, but Sharper will meet many of those people tomorrow.

He indicated last weekend that he felt he should see what was out there in free agency, hence the decision to visit the Seahawks.

Sharper and his agent would like to reach a decision as to where the 30-year-old will sign before the end of the week. Sharper has started 127 of the past 128 games and has not missed a regular-season game in eight seasons with the Baltimore Ravens and Houston. He has 100 or more tackles in four consecutive seasons.

The Cleveland Browns, Jacksonville Jaguars and Cincinnati Bengals are among the other interested teams.

The Seahawks would likely have to free up salary-cap space by restructuring contracts in order to sign Sharper.
TEXANS84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #150
TexansTrueFan
Hall of Fame
 
TexansTrueFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Huntsville Tx
Age: 29
Posts: 2,600
Rep Power: 12 TexansTrueFan is a team player
Send a message via Yahoo to TexansTrueFan
Default

well he will be a good pick up for which ever team signs him. I think he is still a great linebacker and will miss him next season.
TexansTrueFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #151
TexansFanInPA
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0 TexansFanInPA is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to TexansFanInPA Send a message via Yahoo to TexansFanInPA
Default

I think the release of Sharper was a huge mistake and we will miss him during the season. He may not have trade value but he worked his *** off for the team. My opinion is that its a huge loss.
__________________

Out Like A Fat Kid In Dodgeball!
TexansFanInPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #152
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
 
D-ReK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Avalon
Age: 29
Posts: 3,406
Rep Power: 685 D-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Meh, he's replacable...Simply put, he didn't fit into our future plans...A guy like Crowder, Ruud, Thurman, DJ, Kevin Burnett, or Thomas Davis would easily take up the slack left by Sharper's release and cost less too...
__________________
Smoke 'em if you got 'em...
D-ReK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #153
TexansFanInPA
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0 TexansFanInPA is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to TexansFanInPA Send a message via Yahoo to TexansFanInPA
Default

Yeah, you're right. He was one of my fav. Texans. So I have a tendincey to take his relase to heart. I'm sure the Texans will make do.
__________________

Out Like A Fat Kid In Dodgeball!
TexansFanInPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #154
TexansTrueFan
Hall of Fame
 
TexansTrueFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Huntsville Tx
Age: 29
Posts: 2,600
Rep Power: 12 TexansTrueFan is a team player
Send a message via Yahoo to TexansTrueFan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
Meh, he's replacable...Simply put, he didn't fit into our future plans...A guy like Crowder, Ruud, Thurman, DJ, Kevin Burnett, or Thomas Davis would easily take up the slack left by Sharper's release and cost less too...

u can say that but only time will tell. and until i see that his production has been equally or better replaced i will keep saying that letting him go was a mistake.
TexansTrueFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #155
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
 
D-ReK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Avalon
Age: 29
Posts: 3,406
Rep Power: 685 D-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

What did he do that was so productive? He got a bunch of tackles in a system where the ILBs get most of the tackles, saw his sack totals decline over his 3 years here, and never got an INT...The only impressive thing he did here last year was force 3 fumbles...Jamie was a likable guy and all, but I think too many people are looking through steel blue glasses and giving him credit for being better than he was...I wish him the best, but we'll be fine without him...
__________________
Smoke 'em if you got 'em...
D-ReK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #156
TexansTrueFan
Hall of Fame
 
TexansTrueFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Huntsville Tx
Age: 29
Posts: 2,600
Rep Power: 12 TexansTrueFan is a team player
Send a message via Yahoo to TexansTrueFan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
What did he do that was so productive? He got a bunch of tackles in a system where the ILBs get most of the tackles, saw his sack totals decline over his 3 years here, and never got an INT...The only impressive thing he did here last year was force 3 fumbles...Jamie was a likable guy and all, but I think too many people are looking through steel blue glasses and giving him credit for being better than he was...I wish him the best, but we'll be fine without him...

i'm just saying that i am a little worried about losing him UNTIL i see whoever replaces him (greenwood) gets the job done as good/better than sharper did. And he had very comparible numbers to the other 3-4 teams LBs !
TexansTrueFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #157
TexansFanInPA
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 0 TexansFanInPA is ridin' the pine
Send a message via AIM to TexansFanInPA Send a message via Yahoo to TexansFanInPA
Default

I agree with TrueTexansFan. It was a mistake. Unless whoever they get does as good or better then him.
__________________

Out Like A Fat Kid In Dodgeball!
TexansFanInPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #158
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
 
D-ReK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Avalon
Age: 29
Posts: 3,406
Rep Power: 685 D-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
i'm just saying that i am a little worried about losing him UNTIL i see whoever replaces him (greenwood) gets the job done as good/better than sharper did. And he had very comparible numbers to the other 3-4 teams LBs !
Greenwood is replacing Foreman at the buc LB position, and there is no doubt in my mind that he'll be better than Jay was...Currently, we have nobody on the roster that I would feel comfortable replacing Sharper, but it's a given we'll get someone in the draft...As far as comparing him to other LBs, whose numbers were his comparable to? I did a quick look at stats, and the player closest to Sharper's production last year was Randall Godfrey of the Chargers who is past his prime (keep in mind Sharper does have more tackles, but our system filters most of the tackles to the ILBs)...
__________________
Smoke 'em if you got 'em...
D-ReK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #159
TexansTrueFan
Hall of Fame
 
TexansTrueFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Huntsville Tx
Age: 29
Posts: 2,600
Rep Power: 12 TexansTrueFan is a team player
Send a message via Yahoo to TexansTrueFan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-ReK
Greenwood is replacing Foreman at the buc LB position, and there is no doubt in my mind that he'll be better than Jay was...Currently, we have nobody on the roster that I would feel comfortable replacing Sharper, but it's a given we'll get someone in the draft...As far as comparing him to other LBs, whose numbers were his comparable to? I did a quick look at stats, and the player closest to Sharper's production last year was Randall Godfrey of the Chargers who is past his prime (keep in mind Sharper does have more tackles, but our system filters most of the tackles to the ILBs)...

i think Wong will move back in to ILB, that would leave us with

ILB Wong-Greenwood

OLB Babin-Peek

and i feel that cast of players would be fine, i think peek can become an every down player.
TexansTrueFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005   #160
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,653
Rep Power: 132014 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I finally came to the conclusion (in some other thread) that Greenwood will play Sharper's Mac spot. Capers was quoted somewhere as to Greenwood being the ideal player for this position. I think the camp right after the draft will give us our first real glimpse though.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger