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Old 11-11-2010   #1
Hervoyel
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Default There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

I have been reading the posts about Bob and whether or not he wants to win (I'm sure he does), or whether or not he's willing to do what it takes to win (I think he is, in theory), or whether or not he even understands what it takes to win (not so sure) and I've come to some basic conclusions.

Now this is coming from a "Pink Soaper" and a very disappointed fan so take it with a grain of salt please.

I think that there are two kind of "ideal" coaching hires out there. There's the Jon Gruden/Sean Payton type of hire where you bring a coach in and he either delivers a Super Bowl 45 minutes after he enters the building or he takes your crappy 3-13 team and wins 10, 11, or 12 games with them right off the bat. That's the instant gratification head coach. 5 years later you may be firing him because he's not living up to expectations but he made you happy when he got there.

Then you have your "Holy Grail" of coaching where you hire a guy like Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Don Shula, or Bill Belichick (yes, I put him in that same category) who comes in, maybe doesn't win instantly (in Landry's case he didn't reach .500 until his 6th season) but once they start winning they just keep on doing it and they don't get burned out or tired of the job. They become icons who define your franchise and even years after they finally retire people still think of them and your team still benefits from being associated with them.

I think Bob McNair is an owner who wants to win and is willing to do what it takes to win but who doesn't understand entirely what that is. I think he's got a picture in his mind of a franchise very much like the Pittsburgh Steelers. That's a team that is consistently good to great and that builds from the draft with few expensive free agent moves along the way. I think he's got a desire to find that Landy/Noll type coach who will be here a long, long time and he's willing to spend years to find that guy. He doesn't want to be the Cleveland Browns who had Belichick and sent him packing . He doesn't want to be Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones. He wants to be like the Rooneys or the Maras. Behind the scenes mostly and letting good football people run his organization.

The problem is that Bob doesn't know good football people from lousy football people. What makes that already unfortunate situation worse is that Bob is dead set on pursuing the Holy Grail path to getting a head coach. He's going to pursue coordinators who he thinks might have what it takes to be great. That's the case with Kubiak right now. McNair is incredibly patient about this as well. Gary could probably pinch off a couple more 8-8 "sculptures" and Bob would hang right in there waiting for the masterpiece.

That's the negative side. He's going to stick with a head coach (or a GM, or a player he thinks highly of) for far too long and he'll always listen to his football people and unless they're just talking nonsense he'll probably go along with what they want to do. If they're lousy football people he'll let them screw things up pretty bad before he catches on.

The good side (the only one I can find) is that in the unlikely event that he ever does stumble upon some good football people and that "Holy Grail" of football coaches then he'll stay out of the way and never go all creepy egomaniacal owner on them the way Jerry Jones did on Jimmy Johnson. It may take us decades but McNair will never pull an Art Modell and fire Bill Belichick because of a down year or two.

Bud Adams fired Bum Phillips after three straight playoff appearances and back to back 11-5 seasons. Bob McNair will never do that. I guess that's worth something right?
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Old 11-11-2010   #2
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

Good post and I agree with you. As Texans fans, I think many of us would take the instant gratification coach just to see some progress. Maybe a Gruden type would get fired quickly but at least we make the playoffs (making some assumptions here) for once.
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Old 11-11-2010   #3
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

This is a well thought out post. It makes clear and, in my opinion, very valid points that do provide a glimmer of hope to this downtrodden poster.

With all that in mind - are you sure that it belongs here? It's almost too rational to be here now.



*I wouldn't mind an instant oatmeal hire like a Schottenheimer followed by the second coming of Landry.

** Also signed the petition.
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Old 11-11-2010   #4
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

good, well thought out post there Herv. have some rep.
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Old 11-11-2010   #5
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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good, well thought out post there Herv. have some rep.
Glad you got him. I have to spread the love some more.
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Old 11-11-2010   #6
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

I don't have a situation with Bob McNair.

He may not act hastily, or he may not even act in a mannerr that most people would deal "timely", but I am good with how he is running things.

Let the football people do the football, but show that you are there to help if needed.
He's shown that he will let go of people (yes, even people he thinks highly of) if the situation gets ugly, so I have no doubt in my mind that he will/would do the same if there was a time it ever called for those measures again.

As far as him not running the team like some other, more flamboyant owners....I agree. Good quality to have in an owner...Concerning, but not over bearing.

JMO.
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Old 11-11-2010   #7
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

I agree, Herv. I've never been one to blame McNair for being a hands off owner with the exception of the reports regarding his undying support of one particular pretty boy QB (if those reports are to be believed, of course).

I think the key to your silver lining post is that McNair is really an inexperienced, i.e. "noob", NFL owner. And along with being inexperienced, he's started a team from scratch, and most likely trusted in the opinions of other owners...who I believe will always have their teams' best interests first and foremost (rightfully so, of course).

Hence, the spectacular failure of one Charlie Casserly and his subsequent lack of employment by any NFL team since his departure. I can only imagine the twinkles in the eyes of owners over caviar as they sold him on buying into the Casserly resume, much like a bunch of dudes will chuckle at each other when one is telling a tall tale to a another. Everyone was in on the joke except for our dear owner. He was a guppy in a shark tank at that point.

He then appears to have disregarded those business friendships of the NFL owners club with regards to advice, and then leaned on his buddy Dan Reeves for insight and assistance. Reeves is a well respected coach with a nice resume, and of course, he sold Bob on the Denver model, complete with Broncos player-turned-coach and hometown boy, Gary. Kubiak has some nice rings on his resume, given all those 2nd place finishes as Elway's backup and then some 1st place rings as a coach with the 49ers and Broncos. Being from Houston and playing at A&M were nice flourishes and could really make a storybook sing. It is, of course, a book that is still being written, and many are hoping that we're reading one of the last chapters at this point, but then others are hoping this is part V in a long [successful] series.

Regarding owners; As a long time Oilers fan, we KNOW a bad owner from personal experiences. We lived it and have the emotional scars to prove it. I can only imagine a Houston Oilers message board in some parallel universe right now blowing up at signing Randy Moss.

I do agree with you, though, that once McNair finds the right folks to run his franchise, he will be a background owner who just signs the checks for the players that they want to bring in. And that is never a bad thing, because I can't really recall any meddling owner that has been a good thing for their team.
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Old 11-11-2010   #8
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

Hervoyel - Do you think Kubiak could be that "holy grail" you speak of? Is it possible he is that guy and we may have a couple more years of bumps in the perverbial road with him before greatness?

I have no opinion formed as of yet, just picking your brain on this.....
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Old 11-11-2010   #9
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

That's basically what I mean DB. He's going to be a good owner eventually but I think it's going to be a long, trying process to get there. Look at the Steelers who McNair seems to admire so much (I understand that, 6 Super Bowl wins is hard to argue with) and then consider that their all-time winning percentage is just .518

Prior to Chuck Noll they were a perrenial also-ran. The Rooney family was well liked, highly regarded by the teams fans and their peers, and basically not so good at picking football people to run their franchise. We could be in for years and years of this but at any time we could run across that guy who turns it around. Even Chuck Noll didn't post a winning record until his fourth year.

Bob's got a plan and for better or worse that ain't changing. He's not going to fire any head coach who doesn't clearly demonstrate that they've lost the team. Unless we get very, very lucky and he stumbles across a great coach by sheer dumb luck we're going to be watching .500 football (give or take a win or two) in all likelihood for the rest of our lives.
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Old 11-11-2010   #10
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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Originally Posted by 2slik4u View Post
Hervoyel - Do you think Kubiak could be that "holy grail" you speak of? Is it possible he is that guy and we may have a couple more years of bumps in the perverbial road with him before greatness?

I have no opinion formed as of yet, just picking your brain on this.....
I don't think he is but I know one thing, before McNair parts ways with him we'll know for certain one way or the other. He'll be given every chance possible to become that guy.

If he isn't that guy then we'll be watching the next hire get just as many chances. I don't think we'll ever see a hire like Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, or John Fox (a successful or somewhat successful retread) here "post-Capers". That's not what McNair is looking for I don't believe. I don't think he's much concerned with anybodys "window" either. Andre Johnson is in his 8th year and if he retires never playing on a team that tops 9-7 I don't think that's anything Bob will lose sleep over. I think he's on his own timetable. He's "trying" every step of the way but I doubt he'll ever go for the instant gratification hire like Jerry Jones did with Bill Parcells.
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Old 11-11-2010   #11
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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That's basically what I mean DB. He's going to be a good owner eventually but I think it's going to be a long, trying process to get there. Look at the Steelers who McNair seems to admire so much (I understand that, 6 Super Bowl wins is hard to argue with) and then consider that their all-time winning percentage is just .518

Prior to Chuck Noll they were a perrenial also-ran. The Rooney family was well liked, highly regarded by the teams fans and their peers, and basically not so good at picking football people to run their franchise. We could be in for years and years of this but at any time we could run across that guy who turns it around. Even Chuck Noll didn't post a winning record until his fourth year.

Bob's got a plan and for better or worse that ain't changing. He's not going to fire any head coach who doesn't clearly demonstrate that they've lost the team. Unless we get very, very lucky and he stumbles across a great coach by sheer dumb luck we're going to be watching .500 football (give or take a win or two) in all likelihood for the rest of our lives.
To add on-the reason for their .500 lifetime average is because it took them 40 years to win their first playoff game. (I looked that up to fight against my wife and her family-all Steelers fans) Not that I want it to take us that long but it took that franchise a long time to be relevant-but they've managed to stay there.
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Old 11-11-2010   #12
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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To add on-the reason for their .500 lifetime average is because it took them 40 years to win their first playoff game. (I looked that up to fight against my wife and her family-all Steelers fans) Not that I want it to take us that long but it took that franchise a long time to be relevant-but they've managed to stay there.
Exactly and I think that Bob McNair is thinking long-term which is nice in a lot of ways but will also be hard to watch in the long term if he doesn't get any better at picking coaches and GM's than he has been to date. I think if he ever gets it right we're in for a good time as Texans fans. Until he does life will be pretty brutal.
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Old 11-11-2010   #13
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

OK, so we've just got about 31 more years 'till our first playoff game!

Honestly, what I'm thinking about is it taking Landry 6 years and Kubiak being in his 5th. There's been some great coaches that could've easily been fired when they had Kubiak's tenure. We are also in a division where we have Payton Manning and Jeff Fisher as opponents. We can't underestimate how much tougher that makes things on our HC. It's harder to go from 8-8 to winning playoff games than it is to improve a horrible team, and that's doubly true when you face those guys 4 times a year.

Doing things like taking Okoye when there are several DBs with very high potential waiting to be picked and not running Foster more in the 2nd game against the Colts drives me really crazy, but I suspect that any coach this team ever has will drive me crazy. None of them will be me, and that's probably a good thing.
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Old 11-11-2010   #14
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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OK, so we've just got about 31 more years 'till our first playoff game!
Well shit. Looks like I'll be dead and dust before I ever see the Texans in a Super Bowl.
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Old 11-11-2010   #15
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

Repped Herv,

Maybe I will be able to out live Uncle BoB and his medicore ways.

Or maybe Uncle BoB will stumble across a great coach using the blind luck method. This seems to be the track Uncle BoB's on right now.

Atleast he can take refuge in all of the $$$$ he's made selling an below average product to the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS. That should be comforting to him.

If Uncle BoB was half as committed to put a winner on the field as his loyal fan base is to his team. We wouldn't have to be watching crap like the Texans 32nd ranked defense. That's one of the worst in NFL history. IMHO
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Old 11-11-2010   #16
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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OK, so we've just got about 31 more years 'till our first playoff game!

Honestly, what I'm thinking about is it taking Landry 6 years and Kubiak being in his 5th. There's been some great coaches that could've easily been fired when they had Kubiak's tenure. We are also in a division where we have Payton Manning and Jeff Fisher as opponents. We can't underestimate how much tougher that makes things on our HC. It's harder to go from 8-8 to winning playoff games than it is to improve a horrible team, and that's doubly true when you face those guys 4 times a year.
Excuses

Kubes said this was the yr they were going to make the playoffs.

I'm going to hold him to his word. It can be done.
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Old 11-11-2010   #17
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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Well shit. Looks like I'll be dead and dust before I ever see the Texans in a Super Bowl.
Take care of yourself.

I've got hope that McNair can be outlived.

He's pretty old and I believe his dad is still living at the age of 100 yrs.
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Old 11-11-2010   #18
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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OK, so we've just got about 31 more years 'till our first playoff game!

Honestly, what I'm thinking about is it taking Landry 6 years and Kubiak being in his 5th. There's been some great coaches that could've easily been fired when they had Kubiak's tenure. We are also in a division where we have Payton Manning and Jeff Fisher as opponents. We can't underestimate how much tougher that makes things on our HC. It's harder to go from 8-8 to winning playoff games than it is to improve a horrible team, and that's doubly true when you face those guys 4 times a year.

Doing things like taking Okoye when there are several DBs with very high potential waiting to be picked and not running Foster more in the 2nd game against the Colts drives me really crazy, but I suspect that any coach this team ever has will drive me crazy. None of them will be me, and that's probably a good thing.
31...more....years...*gasp!*...that means that we'll have players on that 2042 team whose parents are in elementary school right now...

I think the 'football gods' and/or NFL execs exacted their revenge on Houston for the Oilers fiasco by putting us in this division. If we had been in the AFC West, I have very little doubt that not only would we have more winning seasons sooner, but we would have a playoff win or two right now. We'd be praising the coaching genius of Capers and the management skills of Casserly...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! I just couldn't even type that with a straight face, even in imaginary myopialand.

The thing is, most of us are all Texans fans for life. In it for the long haul. Of that I have no doubt. So along with the patience it takes to wait it out, there is also the need to vent from knee-jerk reactions. And that's what talk radio and forums are all about apparently.
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Old 11-11-2010   #19
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
31...more....years...*gasp!*...that means that we'll have players on that 2042 team whose parents are in elementary school right now...

I think the 'football gods' and/or NFL execs exacted their revenge on Houston for the Oilers fiasco by putting us in this division. If we had been in the AFC West, I have very little doubt that not only would we have more winning seasons sooner, but we would have a playoff win or two right now. We'd be praising the coaching genius of Capers and the management skills of Casserly...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! I just couldn't even type that with a straight face, even in imaginary myopialand.

The thing is, most of us are all Texans fans for life. In it for the long haul. Of that I have no doubt. So along with the patience it takes to wait it out, there is also the need to vent from knee-jerk reactions. And that's what talk radio and forums are all about apparently.
I couldn't read it with a straight face either...actually I didn't make it past Capers name...
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Old 11-11-2010   #20
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Default Re: There's one "Silver Lining" to our situation with Bob McNair

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OK, so we've just got about 31 more years 'till our first playoff game!

Honestly, what I'm thinking about is it taking Landry 6 years and Kubiak being in his 5th. There's been some great coaches that could've easily been fired when they had Kubiak's tenure. We are also in a division where we have Payton Manning and Jeff Fisher as opponents. We can't underestimate how much tougher that makes things on our HC. It's harder to go from 8-8 to winning playoff games than it is to improve a horrible team, and that's doubly true when you face those guys 4 times a year.

Doing things like taking Okoye when there are several DBs with very high potential waiting to be picked and not running Foster more in the 2nd game against the Colts drives me really crazy, but I suspect that any coach this team ever has will drive me crazy. None of them will be me, and that's probably a good thing.
It's all in the MINDSET. Kubiak built this squad to "compete with"
he likes of Fisher and Manning. Someone who builds to "Line THEIR
best against OUR best, and beat tha F@#K OUT OF 'EM
", to quote
Rex Ryan, is needed to take a division championship. When Sparano
took over the 1-15 Dolphins, he didn't get his team to buckle their
knees at the sight of Belichick and the Patriots. They found a way
to TAKE the division from them, with MUCH less overall talent
than the Patriots had by the way.

The Texans had their chance to BURY the Colts in 2010, but CHOKED.
That reflects on their leadership, who plays for "A CHANCE to win,"
and constantly laments how "HARD IT IS TO WIN IN THIS LEAGUE."

Yeah, thanks coach. I've got the mind of a champion now.

"Whoopee doo," to quote Bernard Pollard.
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