JJ Moses just signed...

[O.G.]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

JMO but JJ won't get beat out on return ability, but on contribution elsewhere. Bottom line, once someone comes along that the Texans will actually field at their nominal position and can return kicks without muffing, JJ will be gone.

As for stengths and weaknesses:

Over-documented hands: is this really over-documented (by implication over-rated)--two years at both kick and punt returns (which by the way is another strength not listed--the ability to do both which is not the norm) without a muff--198 returns, zero muffs. Since we aren't doing research, I'll bet that is pretty rare--oh what the heck from the top of the list of folks with the most punt returns, BJ Sams had 5 fumbles last year alone, McQuarters 5, Wes Welker 4. Hmmm, maybe that should have been under-documented.

Speed--talk about over-rated--Allen Rossum is one of the fastest guys in the league--he averaged less on kick returns than JJ and had the same longest return of 49 yards. He did rip off one punt return for a TD, but he also coughed the ball up twice.

Size--explain this one--how is size a problem if he isn't getting hurt?

Inability to contribute on offense--absolutely true and this one will ultimately be his demise as a Texan.

I totally agree!!!

[TexansTrueFan]

i like J.J at the position, he gives us nice field postion on a consistent basis, and i will take UNTIL we can find a guy who can do an equally good job and contribute on Offense/Defense, but hey look what we're paying the guy, its not like he's a big hit on the cap .

[TexansCanes]

i have liked jj as the return man. he can get the job done, that is catch the ball and get a decent return. he is a poor man's d hall, he just can't break it. i remember the jets game two years ago and we were down by seven or so (someone can check me) and he took the kickoff and had the hole, but wasn't able to take it to the house. we all remember what happened on fourth down inside the twenty. the only thing i would like is to find someone that can return kicks and can play on offense or defense. we are kind of wasting a roster spot, but i don't want to get replace him if the person is worse. i wouldn't mind getting roscoe parrish to replace him, only if he slips which probably won't happen. he could be a very good slot reciever, but that is were jabar is suppose to be.

[texansfan88]

I would still like to see them bring in competition to see if he can be beat. I am very negative when it comes to roster spots for long snappers and kick returners unless you are the best at what you do like Dante Hall, Eddie Drummond, and Alan Rossum. There are a few very good kick returners in this draft I think they should look at to at least challenge J.J.

I know J.J. is a fan favorite, and I'm a big fan of his myself, but if there is a 6'1 guy that is better than him at what he does, J.J. would no longer deserve a spot on the team, and I frankly would not care to have him back if he gets beat.

[rdbrem]

I appreciate the concept that if someone is better than JJ, they should play the position. A lot of coaches use that philosophy...

But arguing against having good hands doesn't make sense to me. Nearly every fumble by a kick returner is going to cost you points. Here are the stats for punt returners with a higher average than JJ:

Drummond is number 1, but has no stats on NFL.com, so I don't know if he's fumbled. Besides, his stats don't count, since he got a 99 yard touchdown against us.

Rossum is number 2 in punt returns, but fumbled twice last year.
Northcut (3) and fumbles twice a year (for the last 4 years).
Micheal Lewis (4), fumbled 3 times in the last two years (6 times in '02).
Welker (5) fumbled 4 times.
Sams (6) fumbled 5 times.
Smith (7) fumbled 4 times.
Hall (8) only fumbled 1 time, but averages 2 fumbles a year.
Lewis (9) only fumbled 1 time,
McQuarters (10) fumbled 5 times
Frazier (11) 2 times
Clements (12) 3 times
Parker (13) 5 times
Moses (t 14) 1 time
Battle (t 14) 2 times
Burleson (t 14) once

Most of these guys don't return kickoffs and punts, which increases your chance of a fumble.

So what I'm saying is, don't knock the 'holding onto the ball' logic. Dropping it costs games. If you have an average that's above half the returners in the NFL, and have fewer fumbles than all of them (nobody had 0), that's a good thing.

I'm surprised JJ hasn't fumbled more, just because everyone else does. And whoever we replace JJ with will probably fumble more.

That's my logic. He's stayed healthy, he's got good hands, he's averaging 8.6 per return on punts. He improved from 2003 to 2004 on punts. Definitely needs improvement on kickoffs, but you'll notice Houston didn't sub somebody else for him. So yeah, play the best guy you've got. But if that ends up being JJ, let it rest.

[Vinny]

The bottom line is JJ is going to have to fight for his job every single year because he brings nothing to the table other than in the return game. Guys like that are always going to have to deal with a position player possibly taking their job.

[beerlover]

JJ is a specialist- a modern phenomenon. why because the money is good and there's enough to go around, unlike earlier years when the majority of players played offense, defense & special teams. JJ is a fan favorite, the fans support the team & foot the bill therefore I see no problem as long as he maintains his high level of professionalism.

there will come a day however as Vinny suggests that a two-way upgrade is aquired who will beat JJ down and out of his job, that will be a sad day indeed but one to be prepared to accept. for now the job is his, so to all of you out there come and get it

[outofhnd]

J.J. MOses would be the KR in KC if he had a better camp his rookie year they were neck in neck for a time but Hall won out. i think it is smart for him not to really be catching passes.

Maybe it keeps his head clear about what his job is here. return kicks. Not to mention if he became a solid piece of our offense then we would lose his value as a KR.

But there will always be a 7th round /FA burner invited to camp to try out.

[!! ITEAF !!]

I agree that we don't really have a better return man right now but that doesn't mean that JJ is the answer. As stated here several times, he is average at best.

Has anybody thought about "Slash '05" Matt Jones out of Arkansas? This guy runs a 4.3 40, has sure hands and can pass the ball too. He lacks polish as a QB so he'll probably be around for our second round pick. I know that sounds high but his potential as a receiver might be worth it.

[Mean Machine]

You know, why is it the Texans have never put JJ in the offense? Have him run an end around. Sure he's 5'6" but height does not matter on that quick out pass we run to Andre. What not try JJ sometimes...He obviously has great hands and can take a hit. I know this, that in section 638, when JJ is back to take back a punt we all are chanting his name!

[Vinny]

He has worked out of the slot in practice. There is a reason you don't see him in games.

[TexansCanes]

Originally Posted by Vinny

He has worked out of the slot in practice. There is a reason you don't see him in games.

their is a reason why he isn't play wr, i don't know the exact reason but i trust the coached decision.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Vinny

He has worked out of the slot in practice. There is a reason you don't see him in games.

That's true to a degree, but as I recall they mainly had him doing ordinary WR stuff and mainly in drills, i.e. no opposition--like when the receivers are all taking turns catching the ball 30 yards down the sideline, etc. When KC uses Hall they use him some in a conventional WR role, but they also do little things like that hitch pass AJ gets and almost like the dump passes to DD. The Texans will throw 7th rounders out there during pre-season games, why not take a few plays to see in real game conditions--I'd just like to see them try outside of having him run 30 yd routes in practice. Heck line him up behind AJ and dump it to him--who do you think the DB's will be concentrating on, plus AJ can lay a heck of a block. Not saying it would make him into a major offensive contributor, but what's the harm in trying in pre-season?

[TexansTrueFan]

well if we are paying him the minimum i wont complain much, and nobody was gripping about Dunta hall in KC, cause up until this year he really didnt do much more than return punts and kick offs.

[outofhnd]

There is only 1 problem with that.

If Hall goes down for an extended amount of time then all those plays go on the back burner.

Also Can you name the last superstar speed burner receiver that donned a KC uniform? I sure can't their recieving corps are serviceable vets who were discarded by other teams that got younger faster and more talented players.
Kennison - Rams, Morton - Lions.

And the big play receivers thay have drafted seem to get injured and are never heard from again. Players like Sylvester Morris, Marvin Minnis, i think there is some sort of WR voodoo up in the KC area.

Where here we have a sure handed speed receiver in AJ. So again its smarter to just let Moses return kicks and punts. If we are forced to use him at WR then we will when that time comes.