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Old 11-06-2010   #181
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Originally Posted by Ckw5814 View Post
Sounds like panic attacks is part of, if not a major part of, the problem. I am surprised your doctor has not prescribed anti-anxiety meds especially for you to take at night.
There are better and permanent ways to address anxiety and panic attacks. I lived the hell of anxiety and panic attacks and was very bad. Anti-anxiety meds are not the way to go IMO. I can write a book on this topic.
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Old 11-06-2010   #182
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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There are better and permanent ways to address anxiety and panic attacks. I lived the hell of anxiety and panic attacks and was very bad. Anti-anxiety meds are not the way to go IMO. I can write a book on this topic.
I experience "mini-panick attacks" evreytime I fly... I used to fly a lot, too. A couple of years ago when I went to Hawaii, I took a couple of Ambien about an hour before takeoff. I managed the flight pretty well. Once we got to Honolulu, we had to take a puddle jumper over to Maui... I think that flight took three or so years off the back end of my life...

Bottom line, anxiety, depression anything of this nature is just plain not healthy.
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Old 11-06-2010   #183
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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I took a couple of Ambien about an hour before takeoff. I managed the flight pretty well.
A "couple" Ambien? You had to be knocked on your ass. Not to mention is has a major amnesia effect to it.
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Old 11-06-2010   #184
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I experience "mini-panick attacks" evreytime I fly... I used to fly a lot, too. A couple of years ago when I went to Hawaii, I took a couple of Ambien about an hour before takeoff. I managed the flight pretty well. Once we got to Honolulu, we had to take a puddle jumper over to Maui... I think that flight took three or so years off the back end of my life...

Bottom line, anxiety, depression anything of this nature is just plain not healthy.
Best way to fly overseas: xanex. Get your doctor to prescribe you some next time you fly overseas. Makes a huge difference.
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Old 11-06-2010   #185
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Best way to fly overseas: xanex. Get your doctor to prescribe you some next time you fly overseas. Makes a huge difference.
I always figured alcohol was the way to go...
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Old 11-06-2010   #186
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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A "couple" Ambien? You had to be knocked on your ass. Not to mention is has a major amnesia effect to it.
Yes... Exactly I was knocked on my ass!! I don't remember if I had amnesia or not... I just don't remember......


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Best way to fly overseas: xanex. Get your doctor to prescribe you some next time you fly overseas. Makes a huge difference.
I support xanex... I just can't get xanex.... For some reason my doctor doestn't prescribe xanex.....
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Old 11-06-2010   #187
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

RIP Blazing Arrow. Really sad to see this. I've been busy most of the week, and just now jumped on for a few minutes and see this. WAY too soon to pass like this. I'll even root for the Titans this week in your honor - just don't expect me to do that all year. That's asking too much!
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Old 11-06-2010   #188
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Yes... Exactly I was knocked on my ass!! I don't remember if I had amnesia or not... I just don't remember......


I support xanex... I just can't get xanex.... For some reason my doctor doestn't prescribe xanex.....
Xanex can be some bad stuff and many doctors refuse to prescribe it for good reason. It artificially suppresses the nervous system. Taking it here and there is OK, however a person really needs to cognitively learn how to control their anxious thoughts without having to rely on chemicals do to the work.

The problem with benzos such as Xanex, Clonopin, etc is if you get into the habit of taking them everyday even for a couple of weeks they can be real tough to come off of. The reason is the nervous system gets real erratic/overstimulated after being artificially suppressed for so long. This causes intense anxiety and even odd physical sensations. The person feels worse than they did when they took the first pill. Once someone starts feeling all of that guess how they immediately remedy it? Yep, popping another one. My mom has been hooked to Xanex for years. A few years ago she had a medical procedure done and they would not let her have her Xanex. She was literally freaking out and not sleeping until she could start taking it again.

Bill, I used to have panic attacks on planes. Normally they would not stop until the plane landed. A few years ago I had one taking off from Madrid heading back to the States. It lasted 9 hours which was hell. That event kicked off a severe anxiety disorder for me that lasted until I finally learned how to overcome it.

So are you afraid to fly? I discovered that I wasn't really afraid to fly (like worrying too much about crashing, etc). My initial anxiety attacks on planes were being fueled by "what if" thoughts like thinking about if I had a serious medical issue that I would be stuck in the air and could not be helped, etc. Then I started having panic attacks because I was thinking or worrying about having a panic attack. Once the thought entered my mind they would start. For years I wouldn't go places because I refused to fly because of all of that.

Once I learned how to deal with anxiety I could fly anxiety free. Now I want to travel places.
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Old 11-06-2010   #189
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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RIP Blazing Arrow. Really sad to see this. I've been busy most of the week, and just now jumped on for a few minutes and see this. WAY too soon to pass like this. I'll even root for the Titans this week in your honor - just don't expect me to do that all year. That's asking too much!
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Old 11-06-2010   #190
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Xanex can be some bad stuff and many doctors refuse to prescribe it for good reason. It artificially suppresses the nervous system. Taking it here and there is OK, however a person really needs to cognitively learn how to control their anxious thoughts without having to rely on chemicals do to the work.

The problem with benzos such as Xanex, Clonopin, etc is if you get into the habit of taking them everyday even for a couple of weeks they can be real tough to come off of. The reason is the nervous system gets real erratic/overstimulated after being artificially suppressed for so long. This causes intense anxiety and even odd physical sensations. The person feels worse than they did when they took the first pill. Once someone starts feeling all of that guess how they immediately remedy it? Yep, popping another one. My mom has been hooked to Xanex for years. A few years ago she had a medical procedure done and they would not let her have her Xanex. She was literally freaking out and not sleeping until she could start taking it again.

Bill, I used to have panic attacks on planes. Normally they would not stop until the plane landed. A few years ago I had one taking off from Madrid heading back to the States. It lasted 9 hours which was hell. That event kicked off a severe anxiety disorder for me that lasted until I finally learned how to overcome it.

So are you afraid to fly? I discovered that I wasn't really afraid to fly (like worrying too much about crashing, etc). My initial anxiety attacks on planes were being fueled by "what if" thoughts like thinking about if I had a serious medical issue that I would be stuck in the air and could not be helped, etc. Then I started having panic attacks because I was thinking or worrying about having a panic attack. Once the thought entered my mind they would start. For years I wouldn't go places because I refused to fly because of all of that.

Once I learned how to deal with anxiety I now fly anxiety free and want to travel places now.
That is so true in so many ways...
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Old 11-07-2010   #191
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Xanex can be some bad stuff and many doctors refuse to prescribe it for good reason. It artificially suppresses the nervous system. Taking it here and there is OK, however a person really needs to cognitively learn how to control their anxious thoughts without having to rely on chemicals do to the work.

The problem with benzos such as Xanex, Clonopin, etc is if you get into the habit of taking them everyday even for a couple of weeks they can be real tough to come off of. The reason is the nervous system gets real erratic/overstimulated after being artificially suppressed for so long. This causes intense anxiety and even odd physical sensations. The person feels worse than they did when they took the first pill. Once someone starts feeling all of that guess how they immediately remedy it? Yep, popping another one. My mom has been hooked to Xanex for years. A few years ago she had a medical procedure done and they would not let her have her Xanex. She was literally freaking out and not sleeping until she could start taking it again.

Bill, I used to have panic attacks on planes. Normally they would not stop until the plane landed. A few years ago I had one taking off from Madrid heading back to the States. It lasted 9 hours which was hell. That event kicked off a severe anxiety disorder for me that lasted until I finally learned how to overcome it.

So are you afraid to fly? I discovered that I wasn't really afraid to fly (like worrying too much about crashing, etc). My initial anxiety attacks on planes were being fueled by "what if" thoughts like thinking about if I had a serious medical issue that I would be stuck in the air and could not be helped, etc. Then I started having panic attacks because I was thinking or worrying about having a panic attack. Once the thought entered my mind they would start. For years I wouldn't go places because I refused to fly because of all of that.

Once I learned how to deal with anxiety I could fly anxiety free. Now I want to travel places.
Very good advice and good information. Rep your way.

That being said, I disagree with you in one major way: some people require medication. I guess it is just the psychology background in me that gives me that perspective but in my opinion, some people simply can't control their issues whether that be depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, etc. It is easy to say, "Just get over it and learn to control it," but not everyone is capable of doing that.

As far as benzos are concerned, I agree with you on the dangers involved. I see nothing wrong with the occasional use of medications like xanex for panic attacks and the like, but constant, everyday use has been shown to cause problems. There are milder forms of anti-anxiety meds that are not habit forming and can have many of the same effects.
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Old 11-07-2010   #192
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckw5814 View Post
Best way to fly overseas: xanex. Get your doctor to prescribe you some next time you fly overseas. Makes a huge difference.
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I always figured alcohol was the way to go...
It is.....after you take a Xanex and chase it with 2 32 oz Ziegenbocks. Then drink Heinekens on the plane until you don't give a rat's ass anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Xanex can be some bad stuff and many doctors refuse to prescribe it for good reason. It artificially suppresses the nervous system. Taking it here and there is OK, however a person really needs to cognitively learn how to control their anxious thoughts without having to rely on chemicals do to the work.

The problem with benzos such as Xanex, Clonopin, etc is if you get into the habit of taking them everyday even for a couple of weeks they can be real tough to come off of. The reason is the nervous system gets real erratic/overstimulated after being artificially suppressed for so long. This causes intense anxiety and even odd physical sensations. The person feels worse than they did when they took the first pill. Once someone starts feeling all of that guess how they immediately remedy it? Yep, popping another one. My mom has been hooked to Xanex for years. A few years ago she had a medical procedure done and they would not let her have her Xanex. She was literally freaking out and not sleeping until she could start taking it again.

Bill, I used to have panic attacks on planes. Normally they would not stop until the plane landed. A few years ago I had one taking off from Madrid heading back to the States. It lasted 9 hours which was hell. That event kicked off a severe anxiety disorder for me that lasted until I finally learned how to overcome it.

So are you afraid to fly? I discovered that I wasn't really afraid to fly (like worrying too much about crashing, etc). My initial anxiety attacks on planes were being fueled by "what if" thoughts like thinking about if I had a serious medical issue that I would be stuck in the air and could not be helped, etc. Then I started having panic attacks because I was thinking or worrying about having a panic attack. Once the thought entered my mind they would start. For years I wouldn't go places because I refused to fly because of all of that.

Once I learned how to deal with anxiety I could fly anxiety free. Now I want to travel places.
I used to travel for a living and never got used to it....coming or going. My problem is that I don't trust the plane itself mechanically. And I know it's totally irrational. Every noise that I hear on the plane sounds like something breaking down to me.

Taking off is tough, turbulence is tough, descending is tougher, and landing is god-awful. At least I can keep myself somewhat composed on a plane. I couldn't even think about getting on a roller coaster.

Hookem, I totally see where you're coming from about people getting hooked on the anti-anxiety meds. I know the medicine gets you hooked, but what if you really need the medicine even before you get strung out on it?

I know people that struggle with this.
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Old 11-07-2010   #193
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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Very good advice and good information. Rep your way.

That being said, I disagree with you in one major way: some people require medication. I guess it is just the psychology background in me that gives me that perspective but in my opinion, some people simply can't control their issues whether that be depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, etc. It is easy to say, "Just get over it and learn to control it," but not everyone is capable of doing that.

As far as benzos are concerned, I agree with you on the dangers involved. I see nothing wrong with the occasional use of medications like xanex for panic attacks and the like, but constant, everyday use has been shown to cause problems. There are milder forms of anti-anxiety meds that are not habit forming and can have many of the same effects.
Sorry if I was coming off as saying "Just get over it and learn to control it". Nothing could be further from the truth. I spent almost a year in anxiety therapy and how you overcome this condition is to FULLY understand it, stop fearing it and stopping the worry cycle. Once you accomplish that you have to learn to stop the bad habits that got you there in the first place like chronic worrying, negative thinking, mishandling stress, etc.

The first key is education. Once you understand biologically what your body is doing during a panic attack you stop fueling it. A panic attack can start for several reasons, unhealthy thoughts, worry, stress, or just appear out of nowhere for no apparent reason which is caused by an erratic nervous system typically made that way due the previous things I mentioned. Once you understand what you body is doing you stop fearing it and it goes away. Panic attacks are fueled by fear/stress. The "oh my god" and "what if" thoughts fuel the cycle that keeps a panic attack going. Biologically your body is producing the stress hormones which causes all of the doom and gloom sensations.

I knew I was turning a corner when a panic attack would start and I could remain calm, once I could do that it would pass almost immediately. Instead of the "OMG, here it is again" or "What if I am having a heart attack", etc, etc I would think to myself "There's that nervous system acting up again" and almost laugh it off. After months of being able to do that and also break all of the bad habits that got me that way I started feeling better. This including even going on a diet. I had to stop having anything that stimulates the body, including alcohol which was tough. People that have anxiety attacks often have episodes the day after drinking. There is a biological reason for that.

I am leaving a lot of stuff out for sake of time. However my condition went far beyond panic attacks. I went months were I couldn't leave the house, everything would freak me out (even light), I would start crying for no reason, would go days without sleeping, and I came real close to ending it if you know what I mean. I was that far gone. If I could overcome serious anxiety/depression without meds anyone can. With that I will say that I did use Klonopin here and there mainly to sleep until I started getting a grasp on what I was learning and practicing.

When it comes to this condition though I am very anti-meds. I know they will not cure a person and in most cases only entrench the problem and make it worse. Those meds, especially the long term ones (not benzos) are very dangerous. I have lost 2 friends to suicide that were on those. One of them drove his car into a concrete pillar right after going on Lexapro. There is a time period right after one goes on those things that is real dangerous. When you are in a severe state of anxiety/depression you will do anything to stop it. The thought of just killing yourself is always there. However most people have that something that prevents them from doing that like I did. What those drugs do is take away that "something". They give you a "I don't give a rat's ass" feeling and someone who is thinking about suicide will often just go ahead and do it. Also they tend to make anxiety/depression symptoms worse when you first start them. That coupled with the "I don't care" feeling is a dangerous combination.

Am I saying that most people that get on those long term meds are likely to kill themselves? No, if that were the case 1/4 or even more of the people you know would not be around. Anti-anxiety meds are being prescribed at alarming rates. Actually they are the most prescribed drugs in the world. I was shocked at how many of my close friends admitted to me that they were on something when I was having my ordeal.

Another thing I learned through my ordeal was that most psychologists, psychiatrists, and doctors are really clueless when it comes to treating anxiety. They are just taught to just throw the pills at you. I visited several until I finally got someone who fully understood what was going on with me. Unless one has been through this I don't see how they could really help someone else. My therapist had a severe anxiety disorder for 15 years and the fact he had been there and could tell me his experiences helped me tremendously.

BTW, if anyone has any of the above issues you can visit his website at www.anxietycentre.com. There is a ton of good and ACCURATE information on that site. Those guys literally saved my life and I am forever indebted to them.
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Old 11-07-2010   #194
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

Some great stuff being discussed.

I am a sufferer of anxiety, but never panic attacks. I had it build up in me when my uncle passed in 2003, and when I went through a career crisis, it came to a head and I broke down. By the time my kids arrived, I was really emotionally living a roller coaster and an unhealthy one at that. Worse, I couldn't sleep.

I sought assistance, and for the first time allowed myself to consider medication. I am on a very mild dose of clonozopan and it has worked out well for me the last 18 months. Its essentially the mildest form of valium (IIRC).

I'm also a terrible flyer and take one ambien, which does the trick. Got me throw a direct flight from Toronto to Tokyo so I can handle any flight, but my problem is that now with kids, I can't sleep, which was my solution before. Now I take a clonozopan and its enough to get me through. I used to love flying, until I had a flight 15 years ago from Dallas to Amarillo - we slammed into the jetstream and the jet dipped enough that the oxygen masks came down. I have never been the same since.
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Old 11-07-2010   #195
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

always found 3 vicodin and 2 xanex makes any flight ever so much smoother.
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Old 11-07-2010   #196
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

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There are better and permanent ways to address anxiety and panic attacks. I lived the hell of anxiety and panic attacks and was very bad. Anti-anxiety meds are not the way to go IMO. I can write a book on this topic.


Hookem,

Most here would be wise to give thought to your posts. Behavioral adjustment (self or with the help of a therapist or psychiatrist) is the only safe and effective approach to especially flight phobia.

Benzodiazepines (such as XANAX, ATIVAN, and VALIUM) are very controversial in general. When each first came out, they were touted as entirely non-addictive. Today, we know that they are at the top of the list of addictive medications......especially XANAX. Once dependency is established, getting off these meds is more difficult than getting off heroin. Many psychiatrists will not prescribe them. They are prescribed frequently by physicians who are not familiar with the research that shows they do not work for flying, but actually CAUSE panic when flying.

No ďsingle event doseĒ anti-anxiety medication is effective for flight anxiety.

When the medication fails to provide relief, a person in a state of panic may be tempted to take more medication and/or to combine medication with alcohol. WHEN THESE MEDS FAIL, YOU DONíT TAKE MORE. YOU DONíT COMBINE THESE MEDS WITH ALCOHOL. DOING SO DURING FLIGHT WHERE THE AIR IS THIN CAN BE FATAL.

The majority of psychiatrists never prescribe them or prescribe them only with great caution with carefully screened clients.

Doctors who are not psychiatrists often do not understand the risks (or, just give patients what they want in spite of the risk).

Fatal Interaction With Alcohol. When in the throws of high anxiety, when one has already taken Xanax and finds it is not working, it is common for the person to take another dose and then have a few drinks. This can be fatal. Alcohol and Xanax (or Ativan or Valium), especially when combined causes a disturbance in the regulation of breathing..........a severe slowing. You may want to be knocked out, but you donít want to stop breathing when knocked out..........something that kills thousands of people every year?

Once you know the risks - and lack of effectiveness for flying - of Xanax and Ativan, whether to use them or not is a no-brainer.

These medications are not a responsible way to deal with anxiety on a daily basis and make flight anxiety worse.

If you need medications on a daily basis for anxiety, and you are being prescribed Xanax or Ativan, you need to find a responsible psychiatrist who will switch you to a non-addictive alternative.

If you think you need Xanax or Ativan for flying, think again. At safe levels, they provide no relief at all, and increase panic attacks ten-fold.

[A word about meds for long-term day-to-day anxiety (non flying anxiety). If a doctor prescribes Xanax or Ativan for routine use, find another doctor. That is simply not responsible, and there is no question about it. Why? Because there are anti-anxiety medications which are effective and which are not addictive such as Buspar, and anti-depressants which help with day-to-day anxiety such as Lexapro, Zoloft, and other SSRIs.]

Though Xanax or Ativan can relax you effectively for day-to-day anxiety on the ground (still for only 1 out of 3 patients), it is HOW the relaxation is achieved that is the problem when it comes to flying.

The relaxation is gained by shutting down the part of the brain that gets involved with conflict. In a normal state of mind, imagination conflicts with reality. And when you recognize that conflict, you know what is real and what is imaginary.

But when that part of the brain is shut down, the person is no longer as able to distinguish the conflict between reality and imagination, and thus no longer able to tell what is imagined from what is real.

Thus, when flying, what is imagined (feared) is not recognized as imagination. When the person starts to believe something that is imagined (feared) is really happening, it causes panic and terror.

This is why the research shows that though you get the edge taken off prior to the flight, you pay for it big time. The research shows TEN TIMES as many panic attacks happen when meds are taken versus placebo. Acute and Delayed Effects of Alprazolam [XANAX] on Flight Phobics During Exposure

There is a self-help program that I have suggested to my patients who have spoken to me about this phobia. Itís called the The SOAR Fear of Flying Program http://www.airsafe.com/issues/fear/soar.htm and it has been used successfully by them.

Itís been shown that for those who believed they HAD to have Xanax to fly, found that when they completed the SOAR program which set up automatic control of the feelings, they did not have high anxiety and did not panic. Some continued taking Xanax for a while, believing it helped. But when they finally did try flying without Xanax they discovered - to their amazement - they had LESS anxiety. Though they did not realize it, Xanax had caused them trouble when flying before the SOAR program and it had caused them trouble when flying after the SOAR program. It was only after encouraging them to try flying without Xanax that they discovered Xanax was part of their problem; they had believed it was helping. It wasn't. It was making things worse.

The responsibility question is a red herring. This argument is typically employed by people who have addictive tendencies. They ARE the people who have no business taking Xanax. They feel they are not capable of dealing with feelings without help, and have little tolerance for anything other than instant gratification or instant relief. Not only do they see no problem with instant relief, they often believe they have a right to it. If anyone ever gets between a borderline and their medication, they are in for big trouble. They assert that if they doctor gave it to them, then - "because the doctor knows what he is doing"- it is fine for them to take it. In other words, people with addictive personalities ARE the ones to make this argument. People who do not have addictive personalities rarely even ask for Xanax.

No physician can determine who will and will not engage in risky behavior in a time of stress unless the doctor is trained to do psychotherapy and has had years of experience as a psychotherapist and have treated the client in question as a psychotherapist for dozens - if not hundreds - of therapy sessions.

But as to effectiveness. There are some people that just BELIEVE in Xanax. The research is clear, though. It shows that people taking Xanax for fear of flying have ten times as many panic attacks when flying as people taking a placebo. Yet - and this is the point - those people who took the Xanax BELIEVED Xanax was helping them EVEN WHEN IT WAS MAKING THEM WORSE AND, IN FACT, CAUSING PANIC ATTACKS.
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Old 11-07-2010   #197
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

Just came back from France to see this, horrible and sad news.

RIP BA
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Old 11-07-2010   #198
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

Good and interesting stuff CND. Maybe somehow us honoring BA with this thread will somehow help others having anxiety for any given reason, maybe even anxiety about dying young or having a heart attack. It's not uncommon for people that are chronic worriers especially about health hear about something like this and start worrying about having a heart attack themselves and even developing symptoms.

Also the advice given by DB about living a healthier lifestyle and getting regular check ups can really help others.
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Old 11-07-2010   #199
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We will just have to agree to disagree CND. No amount of studies will convince me Xanex doesn't help for flying as I along with others I know have tried flying overseas without it, and it is miserable. For me, as well as the other people I know that use it, do not do so to alleviate anxiety; in fact, I enjoy flying but only short distances. Xanex helps the flight seem shorter, helps me sleep better, and keeps me from getting sick on those long overseas flights that are otherwise miserable.

Also, this is at low dosages. Typically no more than one 2 mg tablet.
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Old 11-07-2010   #200
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Default Re: Sad News: Blazing Arrow has passed away!!

I want to address some more issues here

1) Big Toro: Get to a doctor. Stubborness is not an option. What may have happened is the virus didn't damage the heart but it may be out of rhythm, making the heart work harder and making it easier for other viruses and issues to get to you. Just walk in and make yourself better physically and mentally by getting an EKG and Echo test.

2) Flying. This is one of the easiet things to get over. Trust me. More flying (think more cowbell) is the answer. I flew maybe 5 times total in my first 35 years of life. I had my 5th flight do an aborted landing and it scared me to death. I was petrified and the times I did fly were horrible. I went through 5 years where I drove everywhere. When I met my wife, who works for an airline, she wanted to travel non-stop. The first few times was embarrassing. I literally almost was crying on her shoulder....she saus I cried. I read a book, "The Fearless Slyers Handbook" which Quantas puts out and just kept going. It really hits home. Turbulence is like bad roads..bumps inthe sky..it isn't bringing you down. Planes are incredibly advanced now. 610 and I-10 will kill you before a flight. Now I've flown probably 60-70 more trips and I fear nothing. It's fun. Plus it allowed me to go to Italy, Hawaii, Paris and all over the place. I don't take anything or even drink...dehydrates you alot. Believe me, you have to start living through this.
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