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Old 10-21-2010   #1
wagonhed
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Default Linebacker weight.

I don't have time to post stats, but something I have noticed is that we have a linebacker corps that I would say averages more than 10lbs heavier than other 4-3 teams. By itself that maybe doesn't mean a whole lot, but it might provide insight into our coverage issues.

250 and 260lb linebackers do not cover like 230-235lb ones do. While many teams have at least one starting LB weighing 230-235, our lightest starter is Diles at 245. Even Adibi is 242 and only Sharpton is under 240, at 236.

For comparison.

Eagles LBs:
229
230
230 starter
235
236 starter
242
258 starter

total weight of starters: 724lbs

Saints:
226 starter
230 starter
232 starter
233
238
245
249

total: 688lbs

Falcons:
225
230 starter
233 starter
235
239
242 starter

total: 705lbs



Texans
230 (Bing, IR)
236 (Sharpton)
242 (Adibi)
245 (Diles)
248 (Bentley)
250 (Ryans)
260 (Cushing)

total (using Ryans): 755lbs


Do we have the same issue at LB that we do at DT? That is, the coaches know exactly what kind of player they want and they draft for that, but it isn't what other teams are effectively using? How much are our heavy LBs to blame for our pass defense woes?
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Old 10-21-2010   #2
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Interesting theory.

I've often thought that Demeco, in particular, looks heavier and slower than he did when he came out.

Maybe they want bigger LB's since they will face OL more often given how small the DT's are? And yes, I'd think the bigger LB's would be more of a liability in pass coverage with Cush being more of an exception to that rule.
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Old 10-21-2010   #3
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Bush tends to run a hybrid-type of defense (as we've seen with the way he uses Cushing). That might have something to do with the size of our LB. One thing's for certain, we do field larger LB than other 4-3 teams.

I don't think it has much to do with coverage though. Cushing is the player skewing our numbers (we'd be pretty much in line with most other 4-3 teams if we played a 235lbs - 240lbs SLB like they do) and he's considered our best coverage LB.

I think our LB are just not good in coverage and it has nothing to do with their weight, but rather their skill set.
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Old 10-21-2010   #4
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

LOL - and when DeMeco was drafted he fell to us and folks were concerned about him because he was too small.
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Old 10-21-2010   #5
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
LOL - and when DeMeco was drafted he fell to us and folks were concerned about him because he was too small.
DeMeco Ryans' speed may be average on paper, but he has an incredible burst for a linebacker that let's him close in on his target in a big hurry. While he's been excellent in run support, his strength may be dropping back into coverage, running well with running backs and tight ends.

Interesting..What happened? =P
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Old 10-21-2010   #6
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by Section516 View Post
DeMeco Ryans' speed may be average on paper, but he has an incredible burst for a linebacker that let's him close in on his target in a big hurry. While he's been excellent in run support, his strength may be dropping back into coverage, running well with running backs and tight ends.

Interesting..What happened? =P
People need to have some perspective. We have faced some pretty damn good TEs - Witten, Clark, Cooley are top 10 TEs.

Let's reverse the perspective. I laugh when I see teams try to cover OD with a LB.
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Old 10-21-2010   #7
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
People need to have some perspective. We have faced some pretty damn good TEs - Witten, Clark, Cooley are top 10 TEs.

Let's reverse the perspective. I laugh when I see teams try to cover OD with a LB.
That joker the Raiders run out there, and Kevin Boss of the Giants
lit the middle of the field up, too.
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Old 10-21-2010   #8
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DexmanC View Post
That joker the Raiders run out there, and Kevin Boss of the Giants
lit the middle of the field up, too.
Nice job of proving your blind negativity. Zach Miller was drafted just behind DeMeco Ryans and 800 yards last year prove you to be uninformed. Joker? - well someone, but not him. Boss got 40 yards which around here would have people asking about trading or what a poor game OD had. But keep on hammering.
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Old 10-21-2010   #9
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Nice job of proving your blind negativity. Zach Miller was drafted just behind DeMeco Ryans and 800 yards last year prove you to be uninformed. Joker? - well someone, but not him. Boss got 40 yards which around here would have people asking about trading or what a poor game OD had. But keep on hammering.
Yes. This defense is playing so negatively, I'm going blind. All I see is guys running free
after they cross the line of scrimmage. I don't have time to break down what position they
play, because it's a FREE-FOR-ALL if you can get past the d-line.
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Old 10-21-2010   #10
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DexmanC View Post
Yes. This defense is playing so negatively, I'm going blind. All I see is guys running free
after they cross the line of scrimmage. I don't have time to break down what position they
play, because it's a FREE-FOR-ALL if you can get past the d-line.
Spin it how you want. Calling the 8th most prolific TE last year a joker is the joke.

Folks want to ***** about coaching well here is a spot. When you face top 10 TEs don't expect LBs even very good ones to cover them. We consider that a mismatch when other teams try to cover OD that way. The Texans should as well.
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Old 10-21-2010   #11
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
LOL - and when DeMeco was drafted he fell to us and folks were concerned about him because he was too small.
Well, it's not like the fans here made it up. That was the reason he fell out of the first round:
http://profootball.scout.com/2/695087.html
Quote:
Weak Points: Is well proportioned, but I wouldn’t consider him an imposing figure physically (medium frame athlete with thin, smooth, high knotted calves, big wrist, biceps, and a solid bubble) / Good but not exceptional weight room and playing strength / Was muscled some by big people on the inside (who isn’t) / Saw what I considered some change of speed in his secondary pursuit.
He's also put on 15-20 pounds since he was drafted.
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Old 10-21-2010   #12
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Spin it how you want. Calling the 8th most prolific TE last year a joker is the joke.

Folks want to ***** about coaching well here is a spot. When you face top 10 TEs don't expect LBs even very good ones to cover them. We consider that a mismatch when other teams try to cover OD that way. The Texans should as well.
Yep, cause I remember OD killing Patrick Willis last year, and Willis is a bad mother "shut yo mouth."
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Old 10-21-2010   #13
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
People need to have some perspective. We have faced some pretty damn good TEs - Witten, Clark, Cooley are top 10 TEs.

Let's reverse the perspective. I laugh when I see teams try to cover OD with a LB.

With any LB, or just the run of the mill LB?

I think if you are considered a top 10 MLB, then it shouldn't be LOL time when you are matched up against some of the top TE's...

I don't expect him to be able to win every single match-up, but if you are a top tier LB then you should win some.

If Patrick Willis is matched up against Owen Daniels, Im not LOL'ing thinking he's about to get pwned...Sure I expect OD to beat him, but I would think that he'd get his fair share of wins too.

And I'm not saying Demeco hasn't won any match-ups this year...But if you are a top LB I don't think it should be a crazy notion for you to shut down or win a lot of your match-ups against other top players.
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Old 10-21-2010   #14
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post


He's also put on 15-20 pounds since he was drafted.
Been saying that for a while now...

But for some reason people want to keep calling him undersized for a Mike...He's not...and hasn't been for a while...



And while we're at it, if you look at other 4-3 DT's, ours aren't small either...

In fact, compared to a lot of 4-3 we are pretty big across the front line....Compared to a lot of 4-3, we are huge in the front 7....
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Old 10-21-2010   #15
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
In fact, compared to a lot of 4-3 we are pretty big across the front line....Compared to a lot of 4-3, we are huge in the front 7....
The small DL criticism comes primarily from the fact that we employ two ~300lbs DT rather than the conventional 300lbs UT and 340lbs NT. In that respect, we are small. But, our RDE is also 20-30lbs heavier than the conventional RDE.
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Old 10-21-2010   #16
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DexmanC View Post
That joker the Raiders run out there, and Kevin Boss of the Giants
lit the middle of the field up, too.
Zach Miller is an above average TE IMHO, I don't think we see many TE's in the league with 50+ catches?
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Old 10-21-2010   #17
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
With any LB, or just the run of the mill LB?

I think if you are considered a top 10 MLB, then it shouldn't be LOL time when you are matched up against some of the top TE's...

I don't expect him to be able to win every single match-up, but if you are a top tier LB then you should win some.

If Patrick Willis is matched up against Owen Daniels, Im not LOL'ing thinking he's about to get pwned...Sure I expect OD to beat him, but I would think that he'd get his fair share of wins too.

And I'm not saying Demeco hasn't won any match-ups this year...But if you are a top LB I don't think it should be a crazy notion for you to shut down or win a lot of your match-ups against other top players.
Come on I've seen Dalla Clark make CB's look stupid, he's a ridiculous TE.. Chris Cooley is really coming into his own as well this year.
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Old 10-21-2010   #18
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Spin it how you want. Calling the 8th most prolific TE last year a joker is the joke.

Folks want to ***** about coaching well here is a spot. When you face top 10 TEs don't expect LBs even very good ones to cover them. We consider that a mismatch when other teams try to cover OD that way. The Texans should as well.
Just to look at what the TE's we have faced are doing this year:

1. Dallas Clark - IND (no suprise)
4. Zach Miller - OAK
6. Chris Cooley - WAS
13. Jason Whitley - DAL

Pretty tough competition..
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Old 10-21-2010   #19
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by silvrhand View Post
Zach Miller is an above average TE IMHO, I don't think we see many TE's in the league with 50+ catches?
I agree.

Zach Miller has twice as many receptions, twice as many yards and 3 more TD's than Owne Daniels. Yes, we all know OD is coming off his knee injury. That, said Zach Miller isn't chopped liver.
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Old 10-21-2010   #20
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Default Re: Linebacker weight.

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Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
The small DL criticism comes primarily from the fact that we employ two ~300lbs DT rather than the conventional 300lbs UT and 340lbs NT. In that respect, we are small. But, our RDE is also 20-30lbs heavier than the conventional RDE.
4-3 teams don't generally have 340 lb DT's...

Those types of DT's are normally found in 3-4's...


So no...In any respect we're not small there...

Just go check some of the weights on DT's that play in 4-3's...Most of them or about the same weight that our two starting DT's are...
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