Player Development and Coaching

[leebigeztx]

I've been thinking about this for a time now and thought how this can have a +/- effect on the roster and draft. Looking over rosters in general, some teams develop positions better than others. I will admit watching the titans the past few weeks, some things really stood out to me in terms of the makeup of their team as an example. It seems they have problems with wr's in general. Now this can be in direct correlation with a defensive minded coach in fisher, but looking at the rest of their players bring to light good coaching up.

Browse through their defense for example and what do you see? 1 first rd player (griffin) and a bunch of no named players after that. Keep in mind they lost kvb( a player picked up off the cardinals scrap heap) and haynesworth. They have a rookie corner drafted late, hope, griffin, and finnegan from samford college drafted very late. On the line, they have babin, the texans former #1,brown,jones, and a cast of other guys and the team has 25 sacks and #1 in red zone defense. The texans have 1st rd picks in mario,cushing,jackson,okoye just on defense and have a terrible defense right now and can't get any pressure. I'm just wondering, where are the texans missing in their coaching or techniques? How can a suppose bust like babin or even before him vanden bosch looks terrible until they get to the titans? How can finnegan and now vermer look like top end guys despite being draft in the 7th rd or so?

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

I've been thinking about this for a time now and thought how this can have a +/- effect on the roster and draft. Looking over rosters in general, some teams develop positions better than others. I will admit watching the titans the past few weeks, some things really stood out to me in terms of the makeup of their team as an example. It seems they have problems with wr's in general. Now this can be in direct correlation with a defensive minded coach in fisher, but looking at the rest of their players bring to light good coaching up.

Browse through their defense for example and what do you see? 1 first rd player (griffin) and a bunch of no named players after that. Keep in mind they lost kvb( a player picked up off the cardinals scrap heap) and haynesworth. They have a rookie corner drafted late, hope, griffin, and finnegan from samford college drafted very late. On the line, they have babin, the texans former #1,brown,jones, and a cast of other guys and the team has 25 sacks and #1 in red zone defense. The texans have 1st rd picks in mario,cushing,jackson,okoye just on defense and have a terrible defense right now and can't get any pressure. I'm just wondering, where are the texans missing in their coaching or techniques? How can a suppose bust like babin or even before him vanden bosch looks terrible until they get to the titans? How can finnegan and now vermer look like top end guys despite being draft in the 7th rd or so?

noticed the same thing watching the game last night. what really stands out is the Titans ability to wrap up & make tackles, technically sound across the board. they also have one of the best red zone defenses. their rookie CB Alterraun Verner was a 5th rd. pick out of UCLA & looks like a 5 year pro unlike the Texans 1st rd. Kareem Jackson. Both are talented so it must be a combination of defensive schemes, support around him (most noteably a better pass rush, do you realize the Titans have lead the NFL in sacks?)) which translates into better position direction from coaches (Jason Babin for instance has become an excellent pass rushing RDE he has six sacks so far on the season equals the entire Texan team). In general the Titans are extremely well coached & prepared. I thought the win last year up in Tennessee was the best game played to date for Texans, surpassed by only that big opening week win over the Colts.

[Kaiser Toro]

It is a good topic, but the answer IMO is more abstract than concrete. It begins with Kubiak calling them kids, Fisher calling them men.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

I've been thinking about this for a time now and thought how this can have a +/- effect on the roster and draft. Looking over rosters in general, some teams develop positions better than others. I will admit watching the titans the past few weeks, some things really stood out to me in terms of the makeup of their team as an example. It seems they have problems with wr's in general. Now this can be in direct correlation with a defensive minded coach in fisher, but looking at the rest of their players bring to light good coaching up.

Browse through their defense for example and what do you see? 1 first rd player (griffin) and a bunch of no named players after that. Keep in mind they lost kvb( a player picked up off the cardinals scrap heap) and haynesworth. They have a rookie corner drafted late, hope, griffin, and finnegan from samford college drafted very late. On the line, they have babin, the texans former #1,brown,jones, and a cast of other guys and the team has 25 sacks and #1 in red zone defense. The texans have 1st rd picks in mario,cushing,jackson,okoye just on defense and have a terrible defense right now and can't get any pressure. I'm just wondering, where are the texans missing in their coaching or techniques? How can a suppose bust like babin or even before him vanden bosch looks terrible until they get to the titans? How can finnegan and now vermer look like top end guys despite being draft in the 7th rd or so?

I agree that the Titans do a terrific job coaching their DL. When they lost Haynesworth, they got some no named guy to step it up. He wasn't Haynesworth, but he was effective. & now Babin is playing like a first rounder.

I never thought Babin was a bust. I thought people were trying to make him a LB when he clearly wasn't.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

It is a good topic, but the answer IMO is more abstract than concrete. It begins with Kubiak calling them kids, Fisher calling them men.

ya that has to be it..

maybe fisher should start calling the offence kids (to get a texans type offence) & the defence men (to get titans type D)

time for a new facepalm methinks...

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

ya that has to be it..

maybe fisher should start calling the offence kids (to get a texans type offence) & the defence men (to get titans type D)

time for a new facepalm methinks...

I have no idea what your statement above means, but it probably has to do with your pee pee still hurting with being wrong about Reggie Bush.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

It is a good topic, but the answer IMO is more abstract than concrete. It begins with Kubiak calling them kids, Fisher calling them men.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

The family that face palms together is the family that stays together

[MojoX]

I think this is the problem with the defense. The last couple of seasons, the defense started horribly, then Kubiak made some statements about getting more hands on with that side of the ball, simplifying things, then things got better. Just like then, Kubiak is already talking about simplifying the scheme:

When you’re having mistakes, that usually brings you back to simplifying. That’s something we’re checking ourselves from a coaching standpoint right now and see what kind of changes that can possibly be made that can make us better.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...3-c6b84b00c9c6

If anything, it hints that the defensive coordinator is not up to snuff. The scheme doesn't fit the players or is just outright flawed. This quote really sounds to me as if Kubiak knows the problem is coaching, not necessarily the talent.

They had all offseason to install this defense with the same crew of players as last year. Maybe Bush's full system/teaching just doesn't work for this team?

To the real football gurus on the board: Does anyone here know what Bush's philosophy is or how complex is D is supposed to be?

[hradhak]

Kubes said on either the call in show or the Monday presser that he had been trying to simplify the defense over the past 2 weeks.

My impression that the fault isn't fully on the schemes. We are not executing well. The tackling is poor, we're overpursuing and not staying at the right spot, etc.

[BigBull17]

We need to just say **** it and do crazy, off the wall ****. Couldn't look worse than last in the NFL. If they score fast, at least we'll get the ball back.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

I have no idea what your statement above means, but it probably has to do with your pee pee still hurting with being wrong about Reggie Bush.

??? wrong about reggie bush?

it has to do with your statement that the texans dont have a good D because kubiak calls them 'kids'

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

??? wrong about reggie bush?

it has to do with your statement that the texans dont have a good D because kubiak calls them 'kids'

I think KT's point is the effect sounds subtle, but it's indicative overall for the mentality of a Kubiak coached team.

Leader of men or leader of "kids".

Far as the Titans go it al lstarts with Fisher having a defensive background. He knows what he wants from players on his defense and knows how to scheme to their strengths instead of scheming to cover weaknesses.

Again it sounds subtle and abstract, but the effect on the field is much more concrete.

[gtexan02]

Id be willing to bet that part of it is mental and part of it is scheme.

The Texans have traditionally had a poor pash rush. We draft guys who are great at rushing the passer and plug them in.

The result? They push so hard for sacks to "fix" the perception of being an underperformer that they give up big running plays. We get killed on draws and screens.

Last year we gave up tons of big plays. Now we play such a soft zone that we give up tons of little plays that end up adding up to huge big plays.

Our defense was the very best when they were just playing the game. Every time we try and "fix" a problem, another one comes out

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Goldensilence

I think KT's point is the effect sounds subtle, but it's indicative overall for the mentality of a Kubiak coached team.

Leader of men or leader of "kids".

Far as the Titans go it al lstarts with Fisher having a defensive background. He knows what he wants from players on his defense and knows how to scheme to their strengths instead of scheming to cover weaknesses.

Again it sounds subtle and abstract, but the effect on the field is much more concrete.

Is it subtle or simplistic? Fisher has a defensive background and makes players look good on D. He has no history of making the O great. Kubiak has an offensive background and makes players look good on O. He doesn't have a history of making the D look great. You can look to any number of endeavors and leaders twice as old as their average followers commonly refer to them as boys or kids, etc.

I respect KT's coaching experience but frankly don't get his "kids" obsession. I just don't see that it is affecting the team. But it is all speculation either way.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I respect KT's coaching experience but frankly don't get his "kids" obsession. I just don't see that it is affecting the team. But it is all speculation either way.

I'm almost 40.... there are guys here where I work that call me kid. There are 20somethings that I call kids. That's because I like them, & I assume the guys calling me a kid like me.

It's a generational respect thing if you ask me.

They're out there playing a game for a living....

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Is it subtle or simplistic? Fisher has a defensive background and makes players look good on D. He has no history of making the O great. Kubiak has an offensive background and makes players look good on O. He doesn't have a history of making the D look great. You can look to any number of endeavors and leaders twice as old as their average followers commonly refer to them as boys or kids, etc.

I respect KT's coaching experience but frankly don't get his "kids" obsession. I just don't see that it is affecting the team. But it is all speculation either way.

I will speak for myself on this one. It is part zinger, and part team psychology. The coach's words do have an impact, akin to smack talk from an opponent being circulated the week of a game, and can be taken a number of ways - it can motivate, it can be a crutch, it can cause a rolling of the eyes, it can not be heard at all (apathy), etc. When the coach talks via the multitude of media touch points, the team takes notice.

Is there a direct correlation? I would be a fool to say there is. Kubiak seems to choose words carefully, and I really like that about him. I just do not want to see the team to start tuning him out, since being called kids continuously is something that grown men, who are professionals, will either stop listening to or start using against the coach and his staff in a sarcastic manner. With backs against the wall, coupled with fragile egos it is the small things that become incendiary.

Maybe it is the grand plan
Phase 1 - develop the kids
Phase 3 - become men

[infantrycak]

We're both spit balling here. The one piece of evidence I look that they haven't stopped listening or started holding it against the coaches is the players seem to love Kubiak. People think it is trite when Kubiak puts the blame on himself at press conferences but whenever the players are asked they put the blame on themselves. A lot of the is Bull Durham saying the right thing on both sides (so I don't know why fans jack with Kubiak about it) but Kubiak hasn't lost this team as opposed to Capers where there were sounds of dissension - and he didn't call them kids.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by hradhak

Kubes said on either the call in show or the Monday presser that he had been trying to simplify the defense over the past 2 weeks.

Simplify the defense? Deja vu all over again. Didn't Kubiak say the same thing last year? And the year before that?

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Maybe it is the grand plan
Phase 1 - develop the kids
Phase 3 - become men

Is Phase 2 - ????
And Phase 4 - Profit

When do we get to Phase 4?