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Special teams/Joe Marciano

R

Rey

Guest
Does it bother anyone that our special teams have looked less than Special this year?

I think our coverage has been good for the most part, but we have looked awfully pedestrian in the return game...

It's not like we haven't had our chances.

I wonder what the problem is...returners? unlucky breaks? guys not blocking as well? New rules on kickoffs disallowing the wedge?

Maybe my amnesia is kicking in, but I don't remember us being so bad in the return game in years past....

Then we had to take a timeout this past game because of guys not being on the field...They have just seemed a bit sloppy to me...
 
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.
 
HoustonSportsFan09 said:
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.
Click to expand...

All I know is that the Chiefs kept kicking off into corners yesterday. I believe to continue to expose Slaton's subpar thinking skills. The laughable part is that Slaton almost bit once again. Sheesh!

Definitely both with all the block in the backs that we like to do.
 
I am thinking the ST are suffering due to injuries and pretty big change over in personnel.
Bentley our ST captain has been out.
Andre Davis is lost for the year.
Those are two key guys right there.
We are thin at LB and have had a big turnover in the def backfield too.
Coach marciano will get it squared away.
The bye week is coming perfect time for us.
 
HoustonSportsFan09 said:
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.
Click to expand...

I wish I could post video. Slaton has been awful as a kick returner. When he does get blocking, he doesn't have a concept about blocking lanes, and he just wants to try and get outside too soon. There's some blocking issues as well, which has a lot to do with the injuries sustained. A lot of the ST guys are injured and go unnoticed because they aren't in the starting eleven, but it impacts the team. Sharpton, Bentley, Molden come to mind, and probably at least one of our TEs.
 
LloydShortBusSpecialTeams.jpg
 
Mean Machine said:
I am thinking the ST are suffering due to injuries and pretty big change over in personnel.
Bentley our ST captain has been out.
Andre Davis is lost for the year.
Those are two key guys right there.
We are thin at LB and have had a big turnover in the def backfield too.
Coach marciano will get it squared away.
The bye week is coming perfect time for us.
Click to expand...

Also Holliday getting injured leaving us with a hole at KR.
 
Special tema have not done much of anything all year.

The return game has been awful...Both punt and Kick return...

Lota of people wanted Jacoby to return kicks, but he's looked as bad as Slaton did earlier in the year...

I'm thinking Trindon has a better shot to make this team next year now...
 
I will give Kudos for the two blocks this year...the punt black against the Chargers and the field goal against the Skins...
 
It is starting to seem like returning it to the 20 has become a mini victory. Slaton's return skills were dookie but I think it's worth giving him a screen or two a game, that's what he was deadly on. I dunno, I mean if you're not going to play him at all...as a 3rd round pick...it's time to move on. It's to bad Jeremiah Johnson isn't around...
 
Rey said:
I will give Kudos for the two blocks this year...the punt black against the Chargers and the field goal against the Skins...
Click to expand...

Plus it looked like they tipped one yesterday on a PAT but it went through the uprights anyway.
 
am i the only one that thinks our blockers on kick returns are set up WAY too close to the returner? the jets kicked fairly short, but jacoby seemed to always be waiting on his blockers. by the time they got going, it was already too late to position for a solid block - letting several guys come free and our wedge hitting nobody (or just creating a pile directly infront of jacoby).
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Fire Joe too..... fire them all, including the interns and janitors.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised nobody has commented on our young punter, Matt Turk. He sure is doing a good job bootin' it 50+ yards.

By the way, am I the only one who's noticed Neil Racker frequently kicks a low line drive during kick-offs?
 
Rey said:
Special tema have not done much of anything all year.

The return game has been awful...Both punt and Kick return...

Lota of people wanted Jacoby to return kicks, but he's looked as bad as Slaton did earlier in the year...

I'm thinking Trindon has a better shot to make this team next year now...
Click to expand...

Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.
 
CretorFrigg said:
I'm surprised nobody has commented on our young punter, Matt Turk. He sure is doing a good job bootin' it 50+ yards.

By the way, am I the only one who's noticed Neil Racker frequently kicks a low line drive during kick-offs?
Click to expand...

yeah, what happened to our kickers? turk hasnt hit a solid ball in weeks and if rackers' kickoffs get much lower somebody in the front wedge is going to start fielding them.
 
Scooter said:
am i the only one that thinks our blockers on kick returns are set up WAY too close to the returner? the jets kicked fairly short, but jacoby seemed to always be waiting on his blockers. by the time they got going, it was already too late to position for a solid block - letting several guys come free and our wedge hitting nobody (or just creating a pile directly infront of jacoby).
Click to expand...

You may be on to something...

Kubiak said something was wrong with the blocking on kick returns today on the radio...
 
Hervoyel said:
Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.
Click to expand...

lol...

I hope that's not what he'd doing....

It looks like if Trindon could have stayed healthy and hung onto the ball he would have been more valuable than we thought...
 
Scooter said:
yeah, what happened to our kickers? turk hasnt hit a solid ball in weeks and if rackers' kickoffs get much lower somebody in the front wedge is going to start fielding them.
Click to expand...

During the jets game the announcers said that Turk was injured...
 
Hervoyel said:
Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.
Click to expand...

I commented on that to my buddy yesterday too. It seemed like forever before he started, and had to cost himself at least 5-7 yards on the return.
 
Is Marciano as good as people thought he was???

Honest question because I don't know...When I started this thread about two months ago, that is what I really wanted to know. That is why I specifically put his name in the title.

I've seen him looking lost quite a few times on the sideline when guys were not on the field and were supposed to be out there. I mean, that's his baby...That's pretty much the only thing he has to do...And yet we have looked abysmal this season.

Has he benefited from having good returners in the past, or is he struggling to adjust to the new wedge rules...

I can't really blame him for those missed tackles on that TD return...And we don't generally allow long returns like that, so he is doing something right.
 
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.
 
TexanExile said:
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.
Click to expand...

Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.
 
GP said:
Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.
Click to expand...

You are probably somewhat right...

I don't know if he held a strict position regarding who would be returning kicks, but he and Marciano probably collaborated on who'd be doing the returning...

I think that if Marciano could have had it his way he'd have atleast rotated different return guys in just to see who could do it the best.
 
TexanExile said:
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.
Click to expand...

I would not be upset if Marciano is gone. But I am not sure if he is as bad a coach as his unit reflects this year.

Maybe we have just been spoiled by having such great return men in this franchises history and this one down year is just an anomaly???
 
GP said:
Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.
Click to expand...

You really hate Kubiak.

It's easier to throw all the blame on one person and villify them than to hold everyone accountable. The players are at fault, the coaches are at fault, and h*ll yes, Kubiak is at fault. But I doubt that Kubiak rules Middle Earth with an iron fist.
 
How can Texans ST improve over the next two games?

I would like to see ST or Defense score at least once .....
 
TexanExile said:
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.
Click to expand...

Joe Marciano told a story on 610 last year that makes me think Kubiak
handcuffs his ability to be as aggressive on his special teams design
than a lot of coaches are. Titans, Jags, the old guy on the
Jets ALL have head coaches that allow them to attack a team
with their special teams game. Kubiak is all about limiting mistakes,
and by extension, limiting aggression.
 
DexmanC said:
Joe Marciano told a story on 610 last year that makes me think Kubiak
handcuffs his ability to be as aggressive on his special teams design
than a lot of coaches are. Titans, Jags, the old guy on the
Jets ALL have head coaches that allow them to attack a team
with their special teams game. Kubiak is all about limiting mistakes,
and by extension, limiting aggression.
Click to expand...

He went for a pass inside their own 10 yard line on third down during overtime. That was pretty aggressive if you ask me.

Look how that turned out.
 
buddyboy said:
He went for a pass inside their own 10 yard line on third down during overtime. That was pretty aggressive if you ask me.

Look how that turned out.
Click to expand...

I was talking about how Kubiak limits Maricano's ability to be aggressive
with special teams.
 
buddyboy said:
Oh you're right. Slaton not being able to get across the 20 is Kubiak's fault.
Click to expand...

That just may be. There is no use of misdirection, gadgets, or
any other creativity this season from the Texans' special teams
unit. I just watched the Jags score on a Fake Fair Catch against
the Colts yesterday, for instance.
 
JB said:
there is a lot more to special teams than just kick off returns.
Click to expand...

But that's the post he quoted; someone complaining about Slaton sucking as a kick returner.

DexmanC said:
That just may be. There is no use of misdirection, gadgets, or
any other creativity this season from the Texans' special teams
unit. I just watched the Jags score on a Fake Fair Catch against
the Colts yesterday, for instance.
Click to expand...

Dex, you're right, there are some things we should do, but if you're arguing Slaton isn't a terrible returner, it's all on Kubiak, we're just not on the same page.
 
buddyboy said:
But that's the post he quoted; someone complaining about Slaton sucking as a kick returner.



Dex, you're right, there are some things we should do, but if you're arguing Slaton isn't a terrible returner, it's all on Kubiak, we're just not on the same page.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was replying to post #34,35 & 36. I did not see #37 & 38 before I posted.
 
I know everyone wants to pinpoint our return woes on Slaton... but did you know Jacoby is only doing two yards per return better than Steve? They are both towards the bottom in the league. This leads me to believe it's more on the blocking than the return man.

According to this site's formula, we have the 6th worst special teams in the league. Our only positive portion of special teams has been field goal kicking.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst
 
And it hasn't been inability that has kept Brown (last year) and Rackers this year from kicking the the ball into the EZ. In practice, both could be seen knocking the ball out of the park. The short kicks with milisecond hang times to the 10 and 15 yd lines in games are evidently "coached." If we had good coverage teams like in the earlier years, you could say that it gave us a chance to get down the field quickly and hit hard and get turnovers. We've had terrible coverage and no turnovers and resulting crappy field position..............and we STILL continue to kick off short..........now ain't THAT special?
 
We've also had a few injuries and we have gotten rid of a few vets...New guys playing special teams as well...
 
Rey said:
During the jets game the announcers said that Turk was injured...
Click to expand...

Injury reports have been so arbitrary. For the past couple of months, Turk has been fighting through a debilitating "hip" injury. Yet no one has been brought in to at least temporarily rest him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Injury reports have been so arbitrary. For the past couple of months, Turk has been fighting through a debilitating "hip" injury. Yet no one has been brought in to at least temporarily rest him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what urks the heck out of me. The dude's been stinkin it up darn near all season and we haven't done a dadgum thing about it? But when we have a position player or their back up go down, we bring in 2 or 3 players for workouts? Turk must owe Kubiak money or something. Geez
 
HOU-TEX said:
Yeah, this is what urks the heck out of me. The dude's been stinkin it up darn near all season and we haven't done a dadgum thing about it? But when we have a position player or their back up go down, we bring in 2 or 3 players for workouts? Turk must owe Kubiak money or something. Geez
Click to expand...
Turk's kicking actually helps our defense. They don't give up as many yards and that's a fact, Jack!
 
I don't believe I'll care if a new coach comes in and wants to change the special teams coaching. If he chooses to retain Marciano then I probably won't be all that upset either. I think we've had a bad year on special teams but that generally we're solid if unspectacular and solid is enough most of the time. Marciano can do better and more than likely will again.

But he's had a bad year though, no doubt about it.

Rackers hasn't been bad but Turk is done. Time catches up with everyone eventually.
 
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