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Old 03-28-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan
this is his year to shine or be gone. That's why.. We don't want excuses, we want results...
Say what? "shine or be gone"? I'm having a hard time making sense of that statement. If Davis doesn't put out an entire year of quality play he's not going to "be gone". He's going to become a role player. There's nothing wrong with being a situational player. Davis will be that either here or somewhere else but the Texans aren't going to run this guy out of town because he's not a franchise back if that ends up being the case. No matter which way 2005 goes Davis isn't going anywhere.
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Old 03-28-2005   #22
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He may not go to another team but he most certainly will go to the bench, I think by the end of the year last season that the zone blocking scheme isnt going to spring him for a TD every time. Against the chiefs it was like he stalled at the line of scrimmage trying to decide which hole and by the time he decided the defense filled it. This year he can't have any excuses or else he is not going to be signed for much.

Shaun Alexander in my opinion is the ideal zone blocking back he hits holes but also has tremendous cutback ability. However DD's success will depend on that of our O Line. If they dont improve DD wont improve much next year either. But he has to play atleast 14 games next year for me to consider keeping him as our starter for another 3 years.
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Old 03-29-2005   #23
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I can see a bitter contract dispute next year with DD. If he gets another 1000 yard season he is going to see himself as a franchise back and will want to get paid that way. The Texans are probably going to be a little more realistic and offer him a salary of an average starting back. That will offend him, because he sees himself as a potential 2000 yard runner.
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Old 03-29-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by outofhnd
Against the chiefs it was like he stalled at the line of scrimmage trying to decide which hole and by the time he decided the defense filled it.
Horrible game to use as an example of anything other than DD doesn't run well hurt. DD injured his ankle on his 1st carry in the game (6 yards by the way) and then tried to play through it in the 1st quarter. It wasn't working so Wells came in shortly into the 2nd quarter. Indecisiveness is not a DD failing--just check the healthy games instead..
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Old 03-29-2005   #25
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Originally Posted by BornOrange
That will offend him, because he sees himself as a potential 2000 yard runner.
Not singling you out here BO but the 2000 yd comment by DD has been mentioned several times, generally by people asserting his was bragging, cocky, running his mouth off, whatever. I saw a clip of when the statement was made and there was zero Terrell Owens/Jamal Lewis to it--the guy was just excited about the new season and to start it as the 1st RB on the chart and about the new zone blocking scheme which was being discussed as well. IMO it was much more of a hey I am going to aim high and this new scheme is going to be great I think I can shoot for 2000 yds and get there.
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Old 03-29-2005   #26
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Not singling you out here BO but the 2000 yd comment by DD has been mentioned several times, generally by people asserting his was bragging, cocky, running his mouth off, whatever. I saw a clip of when the statement was made and there was zero Terrell Owens/Jamal Lewis to it--the guy was just excited about the new season and to start it as the 1st RB on the chart and about the new zone blocking scheme which was being discussed as well. IMO it was much more of a hey I am going to aim high and this new scheme is going to be great I think I can shoot for 2000 yds and get there.
I never really thought of it as being really cocky or arrogant, just kind of a rookie who wasn't aware of how difficult it is to get to 1500 much less 2000.

On second thought, I think my post was too harsh on DD. He is just doing his best and will probably not be a problem for Casserly to negotiate with as long as Casserly makes a reasonable offer. I guess I was projecting a lot of fans unreasonable expectations of him being a franchise back onto him. It is definitely not fair to think an athlete thinks of himself the same way some of his fans do.
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Old 03-29-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by BornOrange
unreasonable expectations of him being a franchise back
Just grabbed that part of a sentence because I wanted to throw in here that I'm not convinced that DD isn't a franchise back. At this point the evidence is incomplete. For every point that can be used to prove that he's not one I think there's a counter argument for him being one. That's what has me so damned hard up for a complete season out of this guy.

Open Question for anyone/everyone interested in this.

What does Domanick Davis have to do in 2005 to prove to you that he is, without a doubt, a "franchise" running back?

Specifically I'd like to know know if there's a set number of yards he has to reach? Number of touchdowns? Does he have to break a long one? How long? Does he need to put together a set number of 100 yard plus games?


For myself I'm going to say that Domanick Davis needs to play the vast majority of the season, 14 games for instance. I can live with him missing a couple of them but obviously all 16 games would be best. As important as not missing games would be Davis being consistently effective. No extended slumps during the year. Everyones going to have a bad game from time to time but Davis needs to have more good games when the team needs him to have a good game.

He needs to get upwards of 1500 yards. and since I'll be watching every single game they play (haven't missed one yet) I'm going to know if the majority of those yards were picked up in dead time. 1500 yards + would be necessary. He needs to be a threat to get 100+ every week and he needs to do it somewhere in the 8-10 times a season range.

Number of touchdowns I think can be misleading so I don't think that his finishing with 15 touchdowns (or some very high number) would make as much of a case for him if 12 of them were 1 yard runs capping drives that he didn't do the majority of the work on. Touchdowns are good and add to the overall "franchise back-ness" of DD but we have to take into account what kind of TD's they are. I think he's done ok on TD's so far. I'd expect them to be right up there where they have been.

I'd like to see him break a couple of runs in the 40-60 yard range during the season and finish them or, depending on the exact circumstances at least come very close to finishing them. If he can't outrun someone in the secondary but he runs over them I can live with that and think that's worth something. It's not speed but it's worth something.

What do you guys think?
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Old 03-29-2005   #28
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I think what we see in Davis is what the Bills have in Henry. Henry is a nice little back and is very similar to Davis but they jumped at the first chance to upgrade to a dominant back (McGahee). If you want to be a running team and win in the playoffs you can't afford to have your primary ball carrier nicked up and putting your entire season on your back up running back in a one game elimination playoffs. It only takes one loss to crater your entire season and while Davis and Henry are competent backs, they are not the kind of guys you can depend on to be there and play hard and dominate 100% of the time. There is no best of 4 in the NFL when it comes to the playoffs. Heck, there are only 16 games in a season and once we start competing for home field advantage we can't put up with a month of 2.9 ypc again (say bye-bye to home field). Its win or go home, and running teams just need a guy who has more in the tank than Henry or Davis if they are going to lean on them in crunch time.
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Old 03-29-2005   #29
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But realistically, what are the chances that Williams, Benson, or Brown fall to us? Slim and none? I think it would be great to get a guy like Williams. He is like the McGahee pick, without the injury concern.
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Old 03-29-2005   #30
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there is actually a good chance of that happening especially if the cards make the trade for henry...i see brown going to phins benson probably going to the dears and that would leave cadillac falling to us...the only problem is we dont' have cadillac he's another DD just a little taller
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Old 03-29-2005   #31
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I think it would be great to get a guy like Williams. He is like the McGahee pick, without the injury concern.
He doesn't have to rehab a major injury like McGahee, but Caddy has the greatest amount of injury concerns among the top three backs.
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Old 03-29-2005   #32
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I can understand DD asking for a pay raise if he gets another 1000 yard season, but he doesn't seem like the type to ask for a ginormous contract. I remember a quote from him about how he wanted to start a barber shop when his NFL career is over, he doesn't seem like the type that is obsessed with money. Just my take on that. I think he can be a solid #1 for us, but only when he's healthy. With the pound the ball offense we seem to be aiming for I think we either need to find a stud who can handle the load, or find a bruiser to share the load with DD. I'm a big fan of DD, he's got good hands, he can shake off a tackle, and he's elusive in the open field. I just don't think he can be a player who can carry the offense by himself, he has to just be a contributor or we're too easy to shut down.
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Old 03-29-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I think what we see in Davis is what the Bills have in Henry. Henry is a nice little back and is very similar to Davis but they jumped at the first chance to upgrade to a dominant back (McGahee). If you want to be a running team and win in the playoffs you can't afford to have your primary ball carrier nicked up and putting your entire season on your back up running back in a one game elimination playoffs. It only takes one loss to crater your entire season and while Davis and Henry are competent backs, they are not the kind of guys you can depend on to be there and play hard and dominate 100% of the time. There is no best of 4 in the NFL when it comes to the playoffs. Heck, there are only 16 games in a season and once we start competing for home field advantage we can't put up with a month of 2.9 ypc again (say bye-bye to home field). Its win or go home, and running teams just need a guy who has more in the tank than Henry or Davis if they are going to lean on them in crunch time.

ya know i can agree with most of what you are saying. But lets just say that Davis has had to run behind 2 different blocking systems in 2 years. And i am not gonna FULLY blame that for his early inconsitentcy last year, but i dont thinks its coinsidence that over the 2nd half of the season his production really picked up (line getting used to zone blocking). So maybe we should see what D.D can do next season running behind the same system with the same guys blocking for him before we jump to any major conclusions. Cause if we were to let him go, we might be looking at another Foley incident.
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Old 03-29-2005   #34
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yes davis has run behind 2 different systems, thats not in question, nor is his productivity, he has never run for less than 1000 yards in the NFL. Its his durability that is brought into question, does he have the ability to be the workhorse back we want? can he consistantly carry the ball without fumbling and getting hurt?

I think its almost certain we will either get another back, or draft one on day 1. Davis is in the last year of his contract and if he has another decent season where he rushes from 1000-1200 yards we are gonna have to wonder how much it will cost to keep him. if its the same or close to a Edge or Alexander i'd rather have them in the backfield than DD.
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Old 03-29-2005   #35
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Originally Posted by jacquescas
yes davis has run behind 2 different systems, thats not in question, nor is his productivity, he has never run for less than 1000 yards in the NFL. Its his durability that is brought into question, does he have the ability to be the workhorse back we want? can he consistantly carry the ball without fumbling and getting hurt?

I think its almost certain we will either get another back, or draft one on day 1. Davis is in the last year of his contract and if he has another decent season where he rushes from 1000-1200 yards we are gonna have to wonder how much it will cost to keep him. if its the same or close to a Edge or Alexander i'd rather have them in the backfield than DD.

well see the only issue i have about the whole (durability) thing is, that yes early in the season he was banged up, and the OL wasnt playing to well, but when the OL starting blocking better he stayed a lot healthier. I remember at the beginning of the season carr would hand him the ball and sometimes davis wouldnt even get to take a step because the defense was already on him, yet he dont seem to get hurt when the line is blocking well and he is running good. And honestly i think the early 4 fumbles in 2 games effected his running as well, he was so concerned about now fumbling the ball that he quit doing all the things that make him great !
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Old 03-29-2005   #36
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I think what we see in Davis is what the Bills have in Henry. Henry is a nice little back and is very similar to Davis but they jumped at the first chance to upgrade to a dominant back (McGahee). If you want to be a running team and win in the playoffs you can't afford to have your primary ball carrier nicked up and putting your entire season on your back up running back in a one game elimination playoffs. It only takes one loss to crater your entire season and while Davis and Henry are competent backs, they are not the kind of guys you can depend on to be there and play hard and dominate 100% of the time. There is no best of 4 in the NFL when it comes to the playoffs. Heck, there are only 16 games in a season and once we start competing for home field advantage we can't put up with a month of 2.9 ypc again (say bye-bye to home field). Its win or go home, and running teams just need a guy who has more in the tank than Henry or Davis if they are going to lean on them in crunch time.
Well said. He is a lot like Travis Henry.

I don't view Davis as a home run hitter or a true power back. His fumbles at the beginning of last season seemed to be an aberation, so I won't hold that against him. I don't like the fact that he plays very poorly when nicked up. He is serviceable, but I want more out of the position. I think the fact that most defensives scheme to eliminate AJ and encourage us to run, says all we need to know about how they view Davis.

The Texans want to control the tempo of the game with our rushing game. We don't need just a solid back to go to the Super Bowl with this type of offense. We need a super star back. One that scares defenses. Davis isn't that guy.
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Old 03-29-2005   #37
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I think the fact that most defensives scheme to eliminate AJ and encourage us to run, says all we need to know about how they view Davis.
Several folks have made statements like this with the implication that it means DD isn't that good. There is no necessary logic to that conclusion. Another possibility is that AJ is foremost in defenses minds because he is the fantastic pro-bowl WR he is. Do you really think if everyone's favorite missed Texan had been on the team the last two years (Clinton Portis by the way) that teams still wouldn't be doubling up and scheming AJ? That isn't a slight on Portis, just a statement of reality that if you give the Texans AJ in single coverage all day long the scoreboard will look like a pinball machine if Carr has any time.

While there are some comparisons for Travis Henry, I really think the Bills choice to draft McGahee had less to do with Henry's lack of contribution to the offense (1438 yds rushing plus 309 receiving for 14 TD's) than with (a) his 11 fumbles and (b) the opportunity to get a player perceived as a top 3 player for a much lower pick and salary. Because of his fall, McGahee's contract is less expensive than what Henry's market value is.

Herv--I agree with most of your post, but would lower the yardage bar a bit. There were only 5 RB's with over 1500 yds last year, 6 the year before and none repeated between the two years.
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Old 03-29-2005   #38
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[b] What does Domanick Davis have to do in 2005 to prove to you that he is, without a doubt, a "franchise" running back?
He has to show up to a game with GoldenPalace.com written all over his uniform.


JK. I think DD will continue to improve and he will be fine. He had almost 1200 yards this past year and ran for 13 TD's. If he can post similar numbers and start 15 games again, I will be happy.
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Old 03-29-2005   #39
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I say we trade sharper, and the 2nd round or the pick we traded sharper for, we take a MLB - our 13th pick, if Benson falls to us, hell yes take him and put DD as a backup untill his contract and through and let him go.
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Old 03-29-2005   #40
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Originally Posted by DoCt3rJ
I say we trade sharper, and the 2nd round or the pick we traded sharper for, we take a MLB - our 13th pick, if Benson falls to us, hell yes take him and put DD as a backup untill his contract and through and let him go.

hmmm i say i want some of what ur smoking. Terrible idea IMO !
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