Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2005   #1
fball
Rookie
 
fball's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pearland
Age: 36
Posts: 62
Rep Power: 11 fball is ridin' the pine
Default Question About Mckinney

Alot of people on this board is always bashing mckinney, I guess I never really focused on him that much, is he really that bad as everyone says? How many sacks did he give up last year or broken up plays up the middle?
fball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #2
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,790
Rep Power: 153429 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Center is very hard to grade and I have a tough time with figuring out how well a player is doing myself. I'm not real high on McKinney because I feel that he gets man-handled a bit much in the run game and gets pushed back a bit too much in pass protections. In fairness to McKinney, some feel that we do not use slide protections to the interior players enough and leave them isolated way too often in 5 man protections where most teams use help more (double teams) and their backs to do more than chip block. Most teams do not leave their players on an island as much (hard to believe you can leave a man isolated in the middle of the line but that is true). Palmer calls all the protections and not the line coaches so take that fwiw.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #3
fball
Rookie
 
fball's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pearland
Age: 36
Posts: 62
Rep Power: 11 fball is ridin' the pine
Default

Well do you think that we will draft a center high or low in the draft or at all, because I know they won't get any in FA, that all depends on if they feel mckinney is not that great or if they think he's good enough.
fball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #4
texasguy346
Mod Squad
 
texasguy346's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Deer Park, TX
Age: 31
Posts: 7,092
Rep Power: 3792 texasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to texasguy346
Default

It's hard to tell what Casserley is going to do because he's always full of surprises. If we do draft a center in the 2nd or 3rd round it would likely take him time to develop into a starting center. That means that McKinney would likely have his starting job for another year. That doesn't necessarily mean we'll be having the same problems with the OLine next year. Pitts and Wand were both essientially first year starters. Wand was a starter for the first time in the NFL at LT, and Pitts was at a new position LG that he'd never played before. If both guys learn on the run, and play much better next season we could see a drastic difference in the OLine play. If Wand is able to take on most DE one on one as opposed to having to depend on Pitts for help then that will free up Pitts to help out McKinney with some of the stronger and bigger DTs and NTs. Wade has been solid at RT, and Weigert can be impressive when he stays healthy. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a couple of young OLinemen at C or G to provide some depth, and also to provide the eventual replacements for McKinney and Weigert.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.
texasguy346 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #5
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,790
Rep Power: 153429 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I've always thought that one day Fred Weary would slide over to Center, but I think I was wrong on that one (fast forward to today).

I do think we draft a Center in the third round (most likely round imo). If we keep McKinney past this year he may face a situation that Foreman has faced this year as he is scheduled for $3,850,000 and $4,600,000 in the next couple of years. To me, he is not performing up to his pay...but to be fair to him, I don't break down gamefilm and he may grade out higher than I think.
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #6
powda
Hall of Fame
 
powda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,168
Rep Power: 89407 powda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

i seem to be one of the biggest advocates on this board for replacing mckinney...for good reason. i have just about every game of every season on tape...and i have watched mckinney specifically before.

he isnt going to physically dominate anyone...i think thats a given by now.

people site the number of sacks hes given up vs other lineman on this team but what they dont realize is that fairly often with a 4 man rush in pass protection mckinney is the free lineman. he dosent have to face a dt 1 on 1. his role is to assist a guard in many instances. time after time i see mckinney assisting the wrong guard...maybe pitts gets a bad jump or is driven back repeatedly....wheres mckinney? flat footed helping weigert when he dosent need it...and vice versa when weigert needs the help and pitts dosent. more often then not its my opinion he's not making the right choices in who to help fast enough. this is when mckinney is free to assist other linemen...when hes on his own 1 on 1....mckinney is steadily beaten. as a run blocker mckinney dosent get a push...dosent play with leverage...dosent seal anyone off. about the most you can hope for is he holds his defender at the line of scrimmage just long enough for dd to make the corner etc...

in pass protection mckiney looks collegiate when he has no help and he's 1 on 1. he's just not strong enough. the bulk of pressure carr got last year came from the inside...and mckinney's been the mantle piece there since our inception. something else to consider is who has been calling the line calls at the line of scrimmage? mckinney.-------and our line play has always been subpar.

i hate to be a killjoy on this topic but im not impressed...and never have been. in addition to his poor performance he makes way to much. he needs to restructure and be replaced...i give carr credit for not having called mckinney out a long time ago.
__________________
Each year, there are more than 40,000 toilet related injuries in the United States.
powda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #7
NeViKaN
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 75
Rep Power: 0 NeViKaN is ridin' the pine
Default

Where can I find stats on sacks allowed by ol? Is it called SKA?
NeViKaN is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 03-18-2005   #8
fball
Rookie
 
fball's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pearland
Age: 36
Posts: 62
Rep Power: 11 fball is ridin' the pine
Default

what good centers will be around in the third or fourth round?
fball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #9
tiger06
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texarkana, TX
Age: 26
Posts: 265
Rep Power: 10 tiger06 is ridin' the pine
Default

I think Chris Spencer would be a great pick up in the 2nd round. If not him, then maybe Wilkerson in the 3rd.
tiger06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #10
texasguy346
Mod Squad
 
texasguy346's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Deer Park, TX
Age: 31
Posts: 7,092
Rep Power: 3792 texasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexasguy346 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to texasguy346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fball
what good centers will be around in the third or fourth round?
There will probably be quite a few. Wilkerson and Brown come to mind. Spencer might go in the 2nd or perhaps early first but that's doubtful. David Baas can play G/C, and some think he could go in the first or early in the second. texansfan88 seems to be pretty high on Jelani Clement, and he seems to be available in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th on most mock drafts. There should be a pretty good amount of centers in the 3rd.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.
texasguy346 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #11
keyfro
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 14 keyfro was voted MVPkeyfro was voted MVPkeyfro was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to keyfro
Default

chris spencor is the best center in the draft this year...but brown and wilerson(when healthy) are not too far behind him...mckinny's weakness is that he is not being pushed by competition and that when we face jacksonville he never is able to handle their front two of stroud and henderson...granted there isn't a lot of guys in the nfl that can but they are our division rivals we see them twice a year so it makes sense to me that we should have a center that can better handle them...spencor is supposed to be one of the strongest lineman in the draft...brown is the strongest i believe...baas is very capable...what i really think is the probably is the lack of consistancy from weigert...he is good when not hurt...but is hurt all the freakin time...we could pick up a guard/center type of player in hopes to make him the rotational guy for both mckinny and weigert since weary and brown have failed to live up to expectations
__________________
With the 10th overall pick in the 2007 NFL draft the Houston Texans select...?????
keyfro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #12
texansfan88
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 26
Posts: 880
Rep Power: 0 texansfan88 is ridin' the pine
Default

Jelani Clement, C from Hampton! he could end up being a real good 7th round solid backup...lacks height however at only 5'11 5/8
texansfan88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #13
Sarg01
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 1,152
Rep Power: 13 Sarg01 is a Pro BowlerSarg01 is a Pro Bowler
Default

Spencer's better upside, but Wilkerson has the experience to start very quickly if need be.
Sarg01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005   #14
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
 
ledzeppelin229's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spring / San Marcos, TX
Age: 29
Posts: 6,829
Rep Power: 712 ledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to ledzeppelin229
Default

What's the latest word on OU C Vince Carter? I haven't heard much about him in awhile, how does he compare to the other 3rd-4th round guys that have been mentioned?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn
godzmn young fomkss are slow. they can all kissmy ass.

ledzeppelin229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005   #15
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
 
D-ReK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Avalon
Age: 29
Posts: 3,406
Rep Power: 685 D-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respectedD-ReK is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Carter isn't strong enough to make an impact his rookie year...He has the same problem as McKinney in that he gets dominated by bigger DTs as well...He seems to have been sliding down draft boards and will probably be a 4th or 5th rounder...
__________________
Smoke 'em if you got 'em...
D-ReK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005   #16
BigDTexansFan
All Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 576
Rep Power: 11 BigDTexansFan is a team player
Default Change of Blocking Scheme Last Season

Some need to remember injuries have always been a problem for OL, also last year Capers put in Dever's Blocking Scheme...not one players had used before...will be waiting to see if they get comfortable with it or struggle some more
BigDTexansFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005   #17
hound
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 55
Rep Power: 11 hound is ridin' the pine
Default Where you find OL stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeViKaN
Where can I find stats on sacks allowed by ol? Is it called SKA?

McKinney actually gave up the fewest sacks of anyone on the line... I think.

Here is where you go to find those stats.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/findplayer.asp

When you get there click on STATS and you can search for guys then by position or name.
hound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005   #18
vtech9
Hall of Fame
 
vtech9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 45
Posts: 1,055
Rep Power: 16 vtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVPvtech9 was voted MVP
Send a message via Yahoo to vtech9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hound
McKinney actually gave up the fewest sacks of anyone on the line... I think.

Here is where you go to find those stats.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/findplayer.asp

When you get there click on STATS and you can search for guys then by position or name.
OFFICIALLY, he gave up fewer sacks, but what that stat doesn't show you is how many times Carr was forced out of the pocket by someone being blocked (or not blocked) by Mckinney, forcing Carr to the outside. I can picture a few times when Wand had his man blocked, but when Carr was forced out of the pocket, he got sacked by Wand's guy. Wand got credit for giving up the sack, but in actuallity, there wasn't much Wand could do. Even though Mckinney's guy didn't get the sack, it was Mckinney's guy that forced Carr to the outside.
vtech9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2005   #19
edo783
Site Contributor
 
edo783's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, again.
Posts: 7,706
Rep Power: 4641 edo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

That is the problem of JUST using stats. You don't know the context of what happend. McKinny's play contributed big time to the tackles getting charged with sacks because David had to be on the move.
__________________


De Oppresso Liber
edo783 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2005   #20
tacoman_j
Veteran
 
tacoman_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 181
Rep Power: 0 tacoman_j is ridin' the pine
Angry Steve McKinney

Why does Steve make so much money. According to Houstonprofootball, he is slated to count 4 mill in 05 and 4.6 mil in 06. Will he be a salary cap casualty next year?

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html
tacoman_j is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger