Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Mario Williams...

[Rey]

Didn't see this posted...please merge if it has been

I can't confirm or deny authenticity of it but this morning on the radio I heard that through their first four years in the leauge Mario Williams is 3rd all time in sacks. They also said that he was 4th in sacks over the last 3 years.

If that is true, then 1) it's freaking awesome 2)it's freaking awesome

It seems as if Mario is expected to do more...

Dude is already pretty good against the run...the sacks are coming in for him...He got two in the pre-season game...

Will he become the best DE ever?

[nero THE zero]

Definitely not true. Not even close to being true.

Smith had 44.5
White had 70
Peppers had 40.5
Jared Allen had 43
Freeney had 51
etc. etc.

Mario has 39.5

[eriadoc]

39.5 sacks, on this team, with as little help as he's gotten over the years, is pretty damn good. People bash Mario a bit too much. Yes, we'd all like to see him beast like he did on Saturday more frequently, but if you knew drafting the guy that he'd be good for 10 sacks a year and numerous pressures, all while being rock solid against the run, you'd still take him #1.

That said, he'll never be Reggie White. I'm not sure anyone ever will. To be fair, White had a lot of help on that Eagles DL, but still .... not too many guys out there with the overall package that White had.

[AnthonyE]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Definitely not true. Not even close to being true.

Smith had 44.5
White had 70
Peppers had 40.5
Jared Allen had 43
Freeney had 51
etc. etc.

Mario has 39.5

Buzzkill.

[Dutchrudder]

I heard this on 610 this morning while 790 was on commercial, and it is a prime reason for not listening to 610. The declaration is just assinine given the wealth of information out there and how easy it is to debunk crap like this. Here's your Snopes-esque debunking of this soon to be 'myth'. Mario comes in a #20:

Sacks is the second/third to last number

Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Sk Tkl Ast
1 Reggie White* 1985 1988 1-4 PHI NFL 57 56 70.0 407
2 Derrick Thomas* 1989 1992 1-4 KAN NFL 63 62 58.0 284
3 DeMarcus Ware 2005 2008 1-11 DAL NFL 64 64 53.5 235 65
4 Dwight Freeney 2002 2005 1-11 CLT NFL 63 50 51.0 135 12
5 Richard Dent 1983 1986 8-203 CHI NFL 63 43 49.0 164
6 Tim Harris 1986 1989 4-84 GNB NFL 60 54 48.0 332
7 Bruce Smith* 1985 1988 1-1 BUF NFL 56 52 44.5 245
8 Simeon Rice 1996 1999 1-3 CRD NFL 64 62 44.0 147 40
9 Andre Tippett* 1982 1985 2-41 NWE NFL 56 46 43.5
10 Jared Allen 2004 2007 4-126 KAN NFL 61 55 43.0 199 29
11 Elvis Dumervil 2006 2009 4-126 DEN NFL 61 45 43.0 106 22
12 Leslie O'Neal 1986 1990 1-8 SDG NFL 54 46 42.5 287
13 Bill Pickel 1983 1986 2-54 RAI NFL 63 35 42.5 269
14 Anthony Smith 1991 1994 1-11 RAI NFL 63 21 42.0 117 13
15 Charles Haley 1986 1989 4-96 SFO NFL 60 33 40.5 210
16 Julius Peppers 2002 2005 1-2 CAR NFL 60 60 40.5 159 38
17 Terrell Suggs 2003 2006 1-10 RAV NFL 64 48 40.0 158 61
18 Jim Jeffcoat 1983 1986 1-23 DAL NFL 64 48 39.5 227
19 Shawne Merriman 2005 2008 1-12 SDG NFL 43 38 39.5 147 43
20 Mario Williams 2006 2009 1-1 HTX NFL 64 64 39.5 160 42

Edit: just click the link for Profootballreference.com. I'm not going to try to fix the stupid formatting in this post.


Sacks by players in their first four seasons

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

39.5 sacks, on this team, with as little help as he's gotten over the years, is pretty damn good. People bash Mario a bit too much. Yes, we'd all like to see him beast like he did on Saturday more frequently, but if you knew drafting the guy that he'd be good for 10 sacks a year and numerous pressures, all while being rock solid against the run, you'd still take him #1.

That said, he'll never be Reggie White. I'm not sure anyone ever will. To be fair, White had a lot of help on that Eagles DL, but still .... not too many guys out there with the overall package that White had.

Interesting to ponder if that line made White better or if White made the line better.

Mario is our boy, but I can't put him in the same conversation as Bruce Smith or Reggie White...not yet, at least, but I do hope it is something that he's worthy of in the near future.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by AnthonyE

Buzzkill.

Not really.....he's still in the ballpark of great players....which is what you want from a #1 ovrl pick.



Alot of people bag on Mario, because he's not HOF caliber yet, instead of just being happy that he's one of the best DEs in the entire league. The guy is a great player, we should just be happy with that.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Interesting to ponder if that line made White better or if White made the line better.

Oh, White made that line better. But it's like Rice joining the 49ers. He came into a nice situation and then made them even better.

[JB]

I beieve it's the "all-time" statement that is out of whack. Mario is 3rd or 4th active DE in sacks for the first 4 years.

[Ole Miss Texan]

That may be true, I wouldn't put him in the Reggie White/Bruce Smith talks... yet. But he's been a stud nonetheless.

His numbers over the last 3 seasons (35 sacks) puts him 3rd in the NFL - that's all players. It puts him 2nd among DEs in the NFL.

He's come a long way since his rookie season of 4.5 sacks with plantar fascitis.


If you look at the last 4 years (# of years Mario has been in the league), he ranks 7th in sacks among all players and 5th among DEs. So, although he's been hammered to death for not being a "Sack Artist"... he's freaking Top 5 DE since he joined the league!! WTH do some people want?

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Not really.....he's still in the ballpark of great players....which is what you want from a #1 ovrl pick.



Alot of people bag on Mario, because he's not HOF caliber yet, instead of just being happy that he's one of the best DEs in the entire league. The guy is a great player, we should just be happy with that.

I think his (potential for) greatness is actually something that hurts him. People expect a HOF player in his prime because of the situation he was drafted in and what he's been marketed to be.

It's something similiar to what AJ suffered prior to 2007. His youth and his QB partner really prevented him from getting the glory that he justly deserved (and is getting now).

I think, like 'Dre, Mario's numbers/respect will reflect his talent as he enters his prime and the defense around him plays to his ability.

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Not really.....he's still in the ballpark of great players....which is what you want from a #1 ovrl pick.



Alot of people bag on Mario, because he's not HOF caliber yet, instead of just being happy that he's one of the best DEs in the entire league. The guy is a great player, we should just be happy with that.

No doubt. I recognize how good he is and how valuable is to us. While I've never been one of those that ragged on him, I do realize how much better he could be.

I'm not going to speculate on what his off-seasons are like, but I'm willing to bet there's likely more he could do to add to his arsenal.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Definitely not true. Not even close to being true.

Smith had 44.5
White had 70
Peppers had 40.5
Jared Allen had 43
Freeney had 51
etc. etc.

Mario has 39.5

Yeah you're right...I just looked at Freeney and it's not even close...

I wonder why they said that then?

[infantrycak]

People focus too much on sacks. Freeney was regarded as one of or the best DE's in the league pretty quickly based off sacks but at the same time teams knew they could run at him and game planned to do it (he has improved some the last couple years). Mario is a complete DE and you can see teams don't just consider him as a pass rusher but in running the ball. It's easier to see with him than most DE's since he swaps sides quite a bit - teams run away from him. That affects the game. That let's Pollard or the opposite side LB shade differently. It doesn't show up on a stat sheet but it definitely changes the game.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

I heard this on 610 this morning while 790 was on commercial, and it is a prime reason for not listening to 610. The declaration is just assinine given the wealth of information out there and how easy it is to debunk crap like this. Here's your Snopes-esque debunking of this soon to be 'myth'. Mario comes in a #20:

Sacks is the second/third to last number

Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Sk Tkl Ast
1 Reggie White* 1985 1988 1-4 PHI NFL 57 56 70.0 407
2 Derrick Thomas* 1989 1992 1-4 KAN NFL 63 62 58.0 284
3 DeMarcus Ware 2005 2008 1-11 DAL NFL 64 64 53.5 235 65
4 Dwight Freeney 2002 2005 1-11 CLT NFL 63 50 51.0 135 12
5 Richard Dent 1983 1986 8-203 CHI NFL 63 43 49.0 164
6 Tim Harris 1986 1989 4-84 GNB NFL 60 54 48.0 332
7 Bruce Smith* 1985 1988 1-1 BUF NFL 56 52 44.5 245
8 Simeon Rice 1996 1999 1-3 CRD NFL 64 62 44.0 147 40
9 Andre Tippett* 1982 1985 2-41 NWE NFL 56 46 43.5
10 Jared Allen 2004 2007 4-126 KAN NFL 61 55 43.0 199 29
11 Elvis Dumervil 2006 2009 4-126 DEN NFL 61 45 43.0 106 22
12 Leslie O'Neal 1986 1990 1-8 SDG NFL 54 46 42.5 287
13 Bill Pickel 1983 1986 2-54 RAI NFL 63 35 42.5 269
14 Anthony Smith 1991 1994 1-11 RAI NFL 63 21 42.0 117 13
15 Charles Haley 1986 1989 4-96 SFO NFL 60 33 40.5 210
16 Julius Peppers 2002 2005 1-2 CAR NFL 60 60 40.5 159 38
17 Terrell Suggs 2003 2006 1-10 RAV NFL 64 48 40.0 158 61
18 Jim Jeffcoat 1983 1986 1-23 DAL NFL 64 48 39.5 227
19 Shawne Merriman 2005 2008 1-12 SDG NFL 43 38 39.5 147 43
20 Mario Williams 2006 2009 1-1 HTX NFL 64 64 39.5 160 42

Edit: just click the link for Profootballreference.com. I'm not going to try to fix the stupid formatting in this post.


Sacks by players in their first four seasons

I'm still confused as to why they would get on the radio with faulty info like that...

That said...

I agree with what others have said...Mario is still a beast...Even though he hasn't put up top 3 sack#'s his first four years his play in the run game is what makes him better than DE's like Freeney or Mathis...Of course thats JMO

[El Tejano]

All I know is that my theory stands true. Talk some public mess about Mario and he will come out with a 2 to 3 sack performance. Richard Justice and Bob Mcnair recently did it and Matt Leinart paid the price. Richard, make yourself useful and type some more crap about Mario.

[HoustonFrog]

I really don't know what to say to Mario "one of the greatest" talk. It's a joke to me. The guy is very good. In my book he doesn't have the motor that some of the greats have had. That could easily change but people feared Smith, White, Charles Haley, etc, etc. Right now teams stay away from Mario some but I don't see them gameplanning. Just premature in my book. Could get there though.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I really don't know what to say to Mario "one of the greatest" talk. It's a joke to me. The guy is very good. In my book he doesn't have the motor that some of the greats have had. That could easily change but people feared Smithy, White, Charles Haley, etc, etc. Right now teams stay away from Mario some but I don't see them gameplanning. Just premature in my book.

Of course it's premature, but that wasn't the original point of the thread. It was just about comparing their early years as pro's. But that info has since been debunked.

However...I don't agree with your assessment. Not sure how you would know whether or not a team game planned for Mario...What exactly are you looking for to determine this. You say that they stay away from him some..then you make that statement..Kind of contradicting.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I really don't know what to say to Mario "one of the greatest" talk. It's a joke to me. The guy is very good. In my book he doesn't have the motor that some of the greats have had. That could easily change but people feared Smith, White, Charles Haley, etc, etc. Right now teams stay away from Mario some but I don't see them gameplanning. Just premature in my book. Could get there though.

Other teams' coaches constantly speak of the elite level of talent of our defensive line. LZ spoke of his dad's reverence for the talent, Parcells did it, Dungy did it, "scouts" and "pro-player personnel" have been quoted saying it.

Mario's the embodiment of that. Elite talent, but it doesn't always show up (that goes for sacks and run defense, though his run defense is more consistent, I think.)

I agree on the comps though. His comp isn't Reggie White or Bruce Smith. His comp is Julius Peppers. I think he can be better than Peppers, but I don't think he will be by much. He looks like he'll follow the same kind of up and down pattern.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by JB

I beieve it's the "all-time" statement that is out of whack. Mario is 3rd or 4th active DE in sacks for the first 4 years.

I see several on that list that are still active, and having listened to the segment they definitely were not defining it as active players. Reggie White and Bruce Smith were mentioned several times.

A couple players on the list are LBs, but still any way you spin it, it's still not correct. The point they should be making is how good of a 4-3 DE he is, rather than trying to put his name in the bowl with the greatest of all time.