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Old 03-15-2005   #61
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Is Vinny under oath here? haha
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Old 03-15-2005   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
If I was Freeney I would just switch sides and wear out Todd Wade.
And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
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Old 03-15-2005   #63
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the rams FO are unwilling to part with pace because they know their 2005 season is shot without him anchoring the most pass-oriented offense in the league, even more than the colts...

they know, or are hoping, that the texans FO will never part with the 2 first rd. picks mandatory when an "offer sheet" is put on the table, hence the rams FO is not expecting to see any "offer sheet" from the texans...what they expect to see days before the draft is a trade proposal, hoping that the rams are fed up with pace or worried about any long holdout into the regular season...but if there's one thing the rams FO does know about pace is that he is not a dumb man. 8.5 million dollars is alot to even multimillionaries like pace. he will not miss any regular season games because it comes out of his own pocket...

the latest rumblings around rampark is that the FO will hold steady to demand of an "offer sheet" and reject any trade proposal. they expect pace to hold out all of training camp and preseason games but will eventually sign the franchise tender one or two weeks before the 1st regular season game. however, if the texans FO is dumb enough to put an "offer sheet" on the rams table and forego the two 1st rd picks then the rams are in deep do do...

and yes, pace is more important to the rams high octane pass offense than jimmy kennedy and steven jackson combined...
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Old 03-15-2005   #64
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Originally Posted by beerlover
its close enough Vinny answear the question please. Dunta @ #10 is comparable to one of the CB's who will be there (#13) either Pac Man, Rogers or Miller, and Babin @ 27 is cutting a lot of slack that the Texans will be that good next year, but regradless as it relates to this draft that #27th spot would yield a player maybe even David Pollack.

so would you trade for Pace and give up Dunta Robinson & Jason Babin?
You don't know that and we aren't looking to deal Dunta or Babin. You assume that we land that caliber of player in the draft but reality is that it is simply unknown. I'm not into fantasy make believe speculation trumping real world situations. The facts are simple, Pace is a Hall of Fame tackle who would make Pitts better, AJ better, Carr better and Dom Davis better. He allows us to give help to Wade on the right side and would make us an instant playoff contender. The guy we pick at 13 may or may not be a player. Next year we likely have a lower pick...and he may or may not be a player. We know exactly what Pace is, a dominant Hall of Fame LT. There has only been perhaps one linemen rated as high as him coming out of College since he was drafted.
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Old 03-15-2005   #65
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
If you want to get an all pro LT, why would you still wan't to use another LT to block Freeney? Why not keep what you have and use to LT's to block him?
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Old 03-15-2005   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Honestly I'd gladly give them the two #1's (2005 and 2006) for Pace, particularly if it means keeping Wand instead of sending him to the Rams. People talk about Wand going to waste here if we've got Pace but if Wand has the kind of ability that the Texans thought they saw in him I could see him pushing Wade eventually.
Interesting Herv, so if you feel that strongly abount Wand (or atleast his
potential), why would you support this transaction to acquire OP, especially
if it would cost this & next years #1.
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Old 03-15-2005   #67
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
True. Unfortunately, that would leave us with four receivers against seven defenders. I kinda liked how the Patriots handled him. They would have a back, tight end, or receiver chip Freeney and then go out for a short pass.
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Old 03-15-2005   #68
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Default Deal most likely won't happen

rams want 2 1st and won't happen according to Carlton Thompson on 590 the fan in STL
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Old 03-15-2005   #69
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rams want 2 1st and won't happen according to Carlton Thompson on 590 the fan in STL
Then I hope it doesn't happen - that price is too high !
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Old 03-15-2005   #70
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Obviously starting Orlando Pace at LT is an upgrade over starting Seth Wand at LT right? Does that mean there's no spot for Seth Wand on our team? Of course not. Who's going to back up Orlando Pace? Who could also get work at RT if necessary? The answer is Seth Wand.

Now in 2003 Wand got some work lining up as an extra TE when we needed help in pass protection. The team thought it was a good idea to get him into a game or two even if it was just in certain obvious passing situations which brings me to what I was talking about.

If Freeney is over on the right side running around Todd Wade and causing problems you give Wade help. If you have Seth Wand on your roster and find yourself in an obvious passing situation where you plan on keeping a TE in to help block (because Wade is getting run over rememeber) then make that TE Wand and make Freeney a non factor. If Freeney is running over anyone (be it right side or left) then we're probably going to give that side some help with a TE, that's all I'm saying.
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Old 03-15-2005   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
Interesting Herv, so if you feel that strongly abount Wand (or atleast his
potential), why would you support this transaction to acquire OP, especially
if it would cost this & next years #1.

Pace is a very special player. There aren't a lot of LT's out there that are in his league so yes obviously I think he's worth the pair of 1's he would cost.

I do feel strongly about Wand but I also remember that Wand was a surprise starter last season. At the beginning of the year we were all a bit shocked that Wand was supposedly ready to go. He'd been described as a project since the day he was selected so when they said he was our starting LT I was like "Whoa, that was fast". One minute I'm hearing that he lacks strength and needs time to acclimate to the speed of the NFL and it seems like the next minute I'm hearing them say "Ok, he's ready".

And he didn't do half bad last year all things considered. I don't however think that what we saw from him last year was as good as it's going to get. I think he needs more time and more work. I think he'd be an outstanding backup to both Pace and Wade, and I believe that if he's got what the Texans think in the way of upside he might very well be starting ahead of Wade someday.

So in short I take Pace over Wand as my starter but I don't let go of Wand if I can help it because I think he's got a role to play here and could also be something special down the road. Maybe not Orlando Pace special but then how many of them do you see out there anyway.
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Old 03-15-2005   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngstown Colt
If you want to get an all pro LT, why would you still wan't to use another LT to block Freeney? Why not keep what you have and use to LT's to block him?
He is saying if Pace was out LT and Freeney moved over the the left (against the right side of the Texans line) to avoid him, then the Texans could counter by putting Wand at TE to assist Wade with Freeney.
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Old 03-15-2005   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Is Vinny under oath here? haha
your right DC Vinny is like the teflon man nothing sticks, on one hand he responds to a thread like this-
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Would you give up #12 pick, Jimmy Kennedy, & #24 pick, Steven Jackson, for the rights to sign someone like Pace?
then a response like this-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I would. Kennedy is not real special and a back close to Jackson is much easier to find than dominant LT's.
now change the question but not the intenet-
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
how about the two players the Texans aquired last season Dunta Robinson (#10) and Jason Babin (#27) would you trade both of those players for Orlando Pace?
and the response is-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
We aren't looking at a top-10 pick in this weak draft, next year I anticipate we have a 20-something selection and Pace would be the best position player on our team as soon as he signed outside of perhaps AJ. Pace instantly makes us a playoff contender imo.
then the indictment-
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
its close enough Vinny answear the question please. Dunta @ #10 is comparable to one of the CB's who will be there (#13) either Pac Man, Rogers or Miller, and Babin @ 27 is cutting a lot of slack that the Texans will be that good next year, but regradless as it relates to this draft that #27th spot would yield a player maybe even David Pollack.

so would you trade for Pace and give up Dunta Robinson & Jason Babin?
the rebutal-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
You don't know that and we aren't looking to deal Dunta or Babin. You assume that we land that caliber of player in the draft but reality is that it is simply unknown. I'm not into fantasy make believe speculation trumping real world situations. The facts are simple, Pace is a Hall of Fame tackle who would make Pitts better, AJ better, Carr better and Dom Davis better. He allows us to give help to Wade on the right side and would make us an instant playoff contender. The guy we pick at 13 may or may not be a player. Next year we likely have a lower pick...and he may or may not be a player. We know exactly what Pace is, a dominant Hall of Fame LT. There has only been perhaps one linemen rated as high as him coming out of College since he was drafted.
I thought it was a straight forward question given the circumstances just a yes or no would do
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Old 03-15-2005   #74
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hey, what can I say? I enjoy it.
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Old 03-15-2005   #75
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I was really not feeling this yesterday, but I'm really warming up to the idea. I just hope Pace isn't just using us to play off the Rams with no intention of coming here.
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Old 03-15-2005   #76
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I love how these Ram fans come over here saying how dumb we are for trading for a fat lazy *** player, and then when it looks like the deal might go through, they talk about how he is the savior of their passing offense.
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Old 03-15-2005   #77
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I think this would be great if they signed him. I mean, this guy automatically locks on our line. Sure we lose out on a couple draft picks BUT a proven commodity vs 2 maybe's...

I know the claim is that we don't want to play in the FA market but come one, I think this is one they should definitly make the push for.

I know this added absolutly nothing to the conversation...

Oh well, just like to hear myself type.
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Old 03-15-2005   #78
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
I love how these Ram fans come over here saying how dumb we are for trading for a fat lazy *** player, and then when it looks like the deal might go through, they talk about how he is the savior of their passing offense.
I most certainly don't think the Texans are dumb for pursuing Pace. But why do Texans fans think it is dumb to compensate the Rams with 2 1st Rounders? If he's that good - and he is - and he'll get you to the playoffs (no big deal for you guys?), then give them up.

Personally, I'd much rather have this year's 1st Rounder, a 3rd this year, and Wand, but its not up to me.
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Old 03-15-2005   #79
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
He is saying if Pace was out LT and Freeney moved over the the left (against the right side of the Texans line) to avoid him, then the Texans could counter by putting Wand at TE to assist Wade with Freeney.
Yeah, but why would Freeney go to the right side, he took ogden 1 on 1, and Ogden is a better LT. Freeney is just gonna do what he does.
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Old 03-15-2005   #80
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Default Don't do it

First...as I understand it, we only have to give up both 1st rounders (2005 & 2006) if we trade for him AFTER he signs an offer sheet with ST. Louis. Doubt that will happen. I'm thinking that if the Texans get a deal done, it will be done before tomorrow at 3...give up our #13 and perhaps the 3rd we got for Henson (which we all know cost a 6th). With that scenario...I am not AS against it.
But I still say we should get Spencer, Brown or Baas for C in the draft this year. The sacks came up the middle for the most part. We'd probably need to trade down, pick up another second round pick, get the C in the 20's of the 1st...and then add D-line & DB youth in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.

Now let me go back with the rest of the peanuts. :woot
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