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Old 03-15-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by TexanBacker55
It wasn't Pace not reporting for camp that was the problem. He couldn't without a contract. The Rams wouldn't give him the long term he wanted.
Everybody read this one more time. It says that he didnt report to camp because of contract disputes. Its not like he didnt want to go, its the fact that the Rams, and Pace, couldnt work out a deal, and you dont go to camp without a contract.
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Old 03-15-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS
The Rams had the 8th ranked defense in the NFL that season.
Yeah, in 1999, we had one of the easiest schedules, and routinely jumped out to huge leads and coasted to victory. I think any knowledgable football fan would agree it is much easier to play Defense when your opponent has to shut down their Running Game and get Pass Happy (although the Rams actually get away with it). In 2000, the Rams Defense returned with almost all its starters and gave up over 500 points on a much tougher schedule.

My Point? If your Offense can routinely jump out to big leads, a suspect Defense will appear to be better than it actually is. However, if you get into close games - like a playoff game might likely be - you will need to have decent Defensive Personnel.
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Old 03-15-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by SassyTexan
But I worry about 'the baggage' at this point.
The "baggage" Pace carries has to do with getting a contract worked out with the Rams. Orlando has gotten the franchise tag 3 years in a row. After his rookie contract, Pace has never received the long term contract that players of his stature get. The responsibility for the acrimony that ensued was due as much the disjointed Rams front office (that likes to negotiate through the media) as it was Pace's choice of the Postons as agents. Pace dumped the Postons, bargained in good faith with someone in the Rams FO, and still couldn't make a deal with a team that he has excelled with for years.

Loyalty cuts both ways. Then Pace comes to Houston and agrees to a deal in a day. That tells me that maybe the Rams deserve to carry some of that "baggage".
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Old 03-15-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by Lucky
The "baggage" Pace carries has to do with getting a contract worked out with the Rams. Orlando has gotten the franchise tag 3 years in a row. After his rookie contract, Pace has never received the long term contract that players of his stature get. The responsibility for the acrimony that ensued was due as much the disjointed Rams front office (that likes to negotiate through the media) as it was Pace's choice of the Postons as agents.
Yup. I tend to agree that players like Pace, Jones and Darius that get repeat franchised (and in the process are being told you are worth top money) have a complaint. When a CBA extension gets worked out I won't be surprised at all to see the franchise tag get re-worked.
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Old 03-15-2005   #25
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Yup. I tend to agree that players like Pace, Jones and Darius that get repeat franchised (and in the process are being told you are worth top money) have a complaint. When a CBA extension gets worked out I won't be surprised at all to see the franchise tag get re-worked.
I agree 100%. Although the Franchise Tag directly impacts very few players, teammates of tagged players are affected by the holdouts that often result. Pace's teammates are on his side on the one hand, and not appreciating him holding out on the other hand. Either way, the NFLPA will likely strongly oppose a similar Tag arrangement in the next CBA.

Let UFA's really be Free Agents, I guess. The downside is that the great players will routinely leave their teams for ones that have the greater cap space to give them. Edgerrin James would have already been signed by someone, and so would Pace. Compensation is the only debate, since most teams won't give up 2 #1s for a Franchise-type player.

The Rams made a very generous offer ($51M) to Pace, IMO, that fits OUR Cap. Pace is saying - in essence - that he really doesn't care what our Cap issues are, just "Show me the money". Part of that stance is probably due to this being the 3rd Consecutive year being Tagged. Bridges are burning.
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Old 03-15-2005   #26
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A good rule would be that a team cannot franchise tag the same player in consecutive years. That is an easy solution to the problem IMO.
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Old 03-15-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by Team-Sport

The Rams made a very generous offer ($51M) to Pace, IMO, that fits OUR Cap. Pace is saying - in essence - that he really doesn't care what our Cap issues are, just "Show me the money".
I wonder if maybe the 51 million dollar deal wasnt favorable to him. Maybe some clauses it that he didnt like.
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Old 03-15-2005   #28
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Pace has been a great player. His issues with the Rams have all stemmed from the lack of a long-term deal.

The Bengals were lucky to get a 2nd for Corey Dillon because RB's don't last long and he has milage on him. Also, there is a perception he is a whiner, and that hurt his value. Personally, I would whine too if I had to endure the type of teams he did in Cincinnati.

T.O. was run out of town. The 49ers just got whatever they could. He is worth about 2 1st rounder IMO.
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Old 03-15-2005   #29
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we just need to get pace cause he's awesome and would help out our line a whole lot
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Old 03-15-2005   #30
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Default Orlando Pace | Day 2

The other thread is quite long and I am starting a new one so we can have two enourmous threads to dig through instead of one.

This would be the biggest transaction for a player since we got the rights to Earl Campbell. I can't remember trading for a more dominant position player here in Houston since then (if it works out of course). Fingers crossed.
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Old 03-15-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailgate
You guys are DEFINITELY in the minority. And thats for a reason. Pace would immediately improve ALL facets of our offense. Yes he costs money, yes he isnt 24.... but again, he is an immediate impact.... and a known result.
I wonder if Capers is getting flashbacks of his coaching job at Carolina...I'm sure we all know what happened, right?
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Old 03-15-2005   #32
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
I hear alot of talk about getting 2 first round picks for Pace, but I have to ask everyone, does shouldnt our #1 pick being in the top half, hold more water than lower 1st round picks?
No it is 2 1st rounders regardless of where they are. It is something you have to consider before you make a move like this.

It is like if someone said, "Bring in 5 canned goods and you get a free blender." If all you have is 5 cans of lobster bisque (expensive), you have to ask yourself if it is worth it. Whereas the guy with 5 small cans of tomato sauce might jump on that deal.
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Old 03-15-2005   #33
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*EDIT* (nothing to see here)

Last edited by TheOgre; 03-15-2005 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 03-15-2005   #34
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Rename the old thread to something like "Orlando Pace Day 1" and if people keep posting at this "pace" then tomorrow add "Orlando Pace Day 3".

Just a suggestion.
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Old 03-15-2005   #35
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
I wonder if maybe the 51 million dollar deal wasnt favorable to him. Maybe some clauses it that he didnt like.
No doubt. He wanted a deal identical to Walter Jones. Walter Jones' $52M deal is heavily front loaded (I believe $27M is pretty much guaranteed). The Rams still have a big Cap Hit from Kurt Warner, and possibly another one coming for Kyle Turley. What Pace is doing IMO, is using the Texans to negotiate a deal with the Rams. It may or may not work. The Rams FO has a good poker face right now. They probably think Pace is actually bluffing, and using the Texans to do it.

ANOTHER ITEM ->> WHY NOT 2 1st Rounders for Pace?
Think about this. This year's #13 is not particularly high. If your team goes to the playoffs in 2005, the 2006 #1 pick might be somewhere in the mid-20s, almost in high 2nd Round territory.
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Old 03-15-2005   #36
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Originally Posted by Team-Sport
...They probably think Pace is actually bluffing, and using the Texans to do it.
Pace knows for the 1st time what he's worth on the market. He won't sign for less. If the Rams don't trade him, he'll likely holdout through camp and the preseason. Maybe even into the season to try to force a trade. The best time to deal Pace is now, before the draft where the Rams can get some value for the '05 season. The Rams FO better wise up, this isn't a bluff.
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Old 03-15-2005   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team-Sport
ANOTHER ITEM ->> WHY NOT 2 1st Rounders for Pace?
Think about this. This year's #13 is not particularly high. If your team goes to the playoffs in 2005, the 2006 #1 pick might be somewhere in the mid-20s, almost in high 2nd Round territory.
Would you give up #12 pick, Jimmy Kennedy, & #24 pick, Steven Jackson, for the rights to sign someone like Pace?
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Old 03-15-2005   #38
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I think the reason why he had trouble with the contract the rams proposed was that they tried to low ball him on the signning bonus.
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Old 03-15-2005   #39
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Would you give up #12 pick, Jimmy Kennedy, & #24 pick, Steven Jackson, for the rights to sign someone like Pace?
I would. Kennedy is not real special and a back close to Jackson is much easier to find than dominant LT's.
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Old 03-15-2005   #40
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Would you give up #12 pick, Jimmy Kennedy, & #24 pick, Steven Jackson, for the rights to sign someone like Pace?
Sure?
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