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Old 03-14-2005   #161
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You have to look at the total impact his signing would have on the salary cap.

Lets say he costs us $10 million a year and we trade our 1st round selection and whatever else we trade. You have to discount the amount that #13 selection would count against the cap as well as the amount of whatever else we trade.

I couldn't find contract info on Lee Evans (WR for the Bills who went #13 last year) but Jonathan Vilma signed a 5-year $10 million deal. So we need to deduct about $2 million from the impact it has on the cap. That leaves the net cap hit at roughly $8 million a year (assuming it is about $10 million a year average).

Would you pay $8 million a year for a perenial Pro Bowl tackle? Keep in mind we paid a non-Pro Bowl LB (Sharper) about $6 million a year to play for us the past two years.
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Old 03-14-2005   #162
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Pace did not have his best year in 2004. Has his play declined? I'm not sure, but he got punked by Atlanta's RDE twice last year, FWIW.
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Old 03-14-2005   #163
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Walter Jones signed a 7 year $50 mil contract so average hit of a little more than $7 mil per year. Pace's contract should be in the same ball park.
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Old 03-14-2005   #164
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I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.
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Old 03-14-2005   #165
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LOT is the most critical position on the OL. I would give up #13 and a couple of players (listed below) - if we can work out a good contract. But, I think we are better off trying to hold onto our draf tpicks and giving up some players that would have more value to the Rams than they have had for us.

Our defense has a few nice players (by "nice" - I mean talented players - but, we signed them as free agents, so they are not cheap - and could be replaced) (RSmith, Wong, Payne, Walker) and one that is not wanted (Sharper - who I still like). (Payne and Sharper have brought a lot of interest on their fan boards)

For whatever reason - the chemistry is not right with these guys. If it was, then our defense would have produced much better. So, shake it up. Giving up a few of these guys will not hurt (we can draft and/or sign replacements - we are planning on doing that with them already here anyway).

Anyway, my point is, I would rather give up players out of this talented, but overpaid and underproducing group, than draft picks - if we have a choice.

Maybe; Sharper, Payne, and a #2
Or, Sharper, Walker and Wong
Basically any combo of our DL/LBs is not that harmful to the team (excluding Babin) - because we can draft or sign players at close to the same cost to replace them - and even if they are less talented, they may fit the system better meaning better results.

I would even go so far as: Sharper, Walker, Payne, RSmith, Wand for Pace and their #1.
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Old 03-14-2005   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged
I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.
CC has a cell phone and I'm sure it works in Hawaii. Mine did when I was over there. RT2
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Old 03-14-2005   #167
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Originally Posted by ccdude730
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......

I agree.. If this gets done, I'm just hopeful that your assessment and mine are both wrong.
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Old 03-14-2005   #168
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Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?
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Old 03-14-2005   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans Pride
3. Is a me player, not a team player
Honest question, can someone please explain to me how a Left Tackle cannot be a team player??? It's not like he can demand the ball or more playing time.
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Old 03-14-2005   #170
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Why is Pace a big selfish baby?
Because he wanted to get paid what he was worth and get a long term contract?????????
Anyone out there not trying to get paid what they are worth is crazy - especially when the team can trade the player to some frozen wasteland (Cleveland comes to mind).

Sounds to me like he has a little sense. If the team had taken care of him, then he would never have been called selfish or had to take the steps he did.
If Casserly is able to work out a contract, it means one of two things; either STL lowballed or Pace has come down to a reasonable number (I have too much faith in Casserly to believe he will overpay). Either way, the "selfish" tag should not carry over to Houston.
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Old 03-14-2005   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans Pride
Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?
I also hear that he's keeping the Dunkin' Donuts chain alive in St. Louis.
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Old 03-14-2005   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdude730
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......
You may indeed be in the minority, but you are not alone. I feel the same way you do. If they weren't serious about developing Wand for left tackle, then why didn't just leave Pitts there.

I'm not going to like the terms of his contract, and I'm not going to like who we are going to have to give up.

Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . .
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Old 03-14-2005   #173
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Originally Posted by TEXANS84
I also hear that he's keeping the Dunkin' Donuts chain alive in St. Louis.
THAT *******!
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Old 03-14-2005   #174
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We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.
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Old 03-14-2005   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . .
I do believe you might be on to something here. I second the motion. Or we could teach Pitts to hike the ball and move Wand to LG.
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Old 03-14-2005   #176
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Just reading about his abilities from Football Scouts Inc. and it says he not only is rated as the 9th best player in the NFL (score of 96 out of 100), but the 2nd best OT in the league!

Just imagine if we lost a couple of players on defense, but the offense got going and scored more points than the defense gives up, doesn't that mean a win?

Give Carr this and see what happens, I think we would like the results, give em' the house for the #9 best player in the League!

By the way, Shaper is rated the best on our team and he is rated a 75 out of 100.
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Old 03-14-2005   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon_stl
We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.
As has been asked earlier in this thread: What shenanigans can you point out that didn't involve bitter contract negotiations between Pace/Postons and the Rams? Skipping camp when you are franchised is not a big deal. In fact, it is a smart way of dealing with the possibility of injury and the only leverage a franchised player has. Heck, if the Rams just would've gotten off the money in the first place, they could have had Pace for less than what they ahve paid him the last 3 seasons and still have him for a couple more seasons.

Now, I am concerned that at 30, without the benefit of training camp for the last 3 seasons, Pace may be losing some edge. I know the current draft lacks blue chippers and all, but I'd hate to give up that 13. Then again, Pace makes Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Davis and Hollings better. On top of that, if he improves our run game, he helps the D big time.
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Old 03-14-2005   #178
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I think Pace turns 30 in November.

OL play a lot longer than most.

So, we shuld get a good 6 years out of him. Then maybe another three decent years (which would still be better than most OTs out there):

Roaf is 35 and still a pro bowler - I think Pace will hold up even better than Roaf.

Since we won't give him a contract much longer than 5 years, it won't matter how old he is.
My prediction - Pace will still be playing when DDavis is done.
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Old 03-14-2005   #179
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Man i hope we get this guy, but i have to admit, I DON'T WANT TO LET GO OF SHARPER!!!!!!.....It seems though he wants out so i wish the best for him.
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Old 03-14-2005   #180
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One of my favorite players of all time, Hall of Fame OT Jackie Slater of the Rams, played LT for 20 years (1976-1995). It can happen.
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