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Old 03-14-2005   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
To get a top 5 Left Tackle you've got to give something up. There isn't a better player at #13 than Orlando Pace. If it takes a 1st and a 3rd, i'd do it in a heartbeat.
That's the way I look at it. LT is one of the most important positions on the field and Pace is one of the best in the league.

Pace would instantly become the best lineman on our team. I doubt we could even get a starter with the #13 pick this year. Our #13 pick would be a project at best. I'd take a sure thing over a project any day. And who is to say that the person we draft at #13 wouldn't be a complete bust?
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Old 03-14-2005   #242
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If we get Pace, this might be what they are thinking:

LT-Pace LG- Pitts C-Weigert RG-Wand RT-Wade

That's a big, tall line. Between Pace, Weigert, and Wade it would be pretty expensive too.

I still like Wand at tackle, but this would put our best lineman on the field. Wand could move back to LT in 3-4 years if Pace declines or gets cut for cap reasons, like the Titans did to all those players recently.

They'd just need some PPWWW nickname.
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Old 03-14-2005   #243
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Originally Posted by dirty steve
were do you get the half from? so wand as a first year LT was not a problem? that wiegert and wade were injured was not a problem? i think that mckinney is popular whipping boy on the board.

does anybody have a stat for number of sacks given up by each texans OL in 2004?

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Old 03-14-2005   #244
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those are all things we dont know, but track record of our club is not to give monter money to players, true we overpaid slightly for good talent (Wade and Robaire Smith) but we are not the Redskins here.

Our history shows no reason to fear us giving pace a 30 million bonus and some horrific contract. Every player has Injury concerns, and he is one of the most durable left tackles in the league right now.
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Old 03-14-2005   #245
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Default On Pace

Oh to be young again!

As most of us long time Ram fans know our history and drama run deep.
From winning 7 straight division titles in the 70s' w/out a ring, to having the best runner of his time Texan, Eric Dickerson, stupidly shipped out of town.
To watching a bumbling owner pack up the team and move them to the mid-west, all the while knowing this owner is only the owner because her husband died, mysteriously died. Thats not to mention having the league turnning a blind eye to defensive holding of recievers starting with Super Bowl 36. AKA 9/11 PATRIOT-IC Bowl. Oh the Drama.

Anyways that might help to explain some of our fans negative attitude on O Pace. Yes Orlando played sub-par last year at times, but so did the whole team. It definately seemed like Orlando was playing not to get hurt and end any chances at getting that long term contract. When he was motivated, like when he had to face former teammate Grant Wistrom he played exceptional.

The motivation for the Texans I am sure is increased by the difficulty young tackles have in this league. Jackie Slater not only didn't play much or start as a rookie, he used to get abused in practice by Jack Youngblood when he was a rookie. Even with all the hype these days leading up to the draft, the top O-Line prospects have not stepped right in and dominated. Even Robert Gallery, Jordan Gross and Eric Stienbach, three much better prospects than any tackle this year, played average at best. Steinbach better than average but that was at Guard. It is my opinion that QB and OT are the hardest positions for a rookie to have immeadiate success at. Then of course there is the Kenyatta Walker fear. The highest rated Tackle coming out four years ago, he flopped....on his face. Thats the Rams dilema if they trade Pace. The Rams have no worthy tackles with Pace gone and will need two vets.

Who at #13 will be available. Probably not DJ, Meriman or Rolle. And Barron, Brown and Barnes probably will need a year to adjust/improve to handle the Pro level DE's and blitzes. Casserly knows he cant lets Carr get pummled again and he needs to put points on the board now. Martz now has Jackson to hammer the ball so may actually pass less and thats why I think this may benifit both teams.

What you guys think?
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Old 03-14-2005   #246
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if we are going to be a team that builds through the draft and doesnt waste money on expensive free agents, then this is the type of player we have to stay away from. i still dont think we are one player away. even our o-line is not one player away. we have 2 or 3 players on the oline that are not very good.

build through the draft. build through the draft. build through the draft.
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Old 03-14-2005   #247
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Originally Posted by markbeth
if we are going to be a team that builds through the draft and doesnt waste money on expensive free agents, then this is the type of player we have to stay away from. i still dont think we are one player away. even our o-line is not one player away. we have 2 or 3 players on the oline that are not very good.

build through the draft. build through the draft. build through the draft.
As to building the team, we have signed FA's as starters in 4 of the 6 line positions (if you include the TE) and Pitts was a 2nd rounder and Wand is a 3rd rounder to round out our line. On top of that the team picked up Tony Boselli in the expansion draft but obviously that didn't work out. If it did, we would have nothing but a veteran line with a second round pick in Pitts as our LG. Our goal was a veteran line with young developing, emerging skill players. Most people just donít slow down long enough to see that. With Pace we have what we wanted in Boselli all along. A veteran line with one of the best Tackles in the league to support young, developing skill players.
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Old 03-14-2005   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan66Rams
Martz now has Jackson to hammer the ball so may actually pass less and thats why I think this may benifit both teams.

What you guys think?
I don't think Martz is capable of "hammering the ball". He has to fit in his nifty plays. I also came up with a new coach for teams. It is the time management coach. His duties are to:
1. Keep track of timeouts
2. Assist head coach on when to use the red flag
3. Give advice on 2-minute drills
4. Advise when to use on-side kicks and when not to
5. Assist coach on when to take a 2 pt. conversion, an intensional safety, etc.

I think Andy Reid and Mike Martz would need to be the first two to hire one of these.

This is a good trade for the Texans. I think it might be good for the Rams to move on from Pace too.
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Old 03-14-2005   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty steve
does anybody have a stat for number of sacks given up by each texans OL in 2004?
Wand 12.5 sacks, 1 false start, 2 holds
Pitts 6 sacks, 7 false starts, 3 holds
McKinney, 4 sacks, 0 false starts, 0 holds
Weigert 4.5 sacks, 2 false starts, 0 holds
Wade 6 sacks, 3 false starts, 0 holds

Spears 2 sacks, 1 false start, 0 holds
Weary 0 sacks, 1 false start, 0 holds
Brown 1.75 sacks, 3 false starts, 1 hold
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Old 03-14-2005   #250
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Default Build through the Draft?

You mean like the other expansion team?
Cleaveland Browns: Courtney Brown, William Green, Kevin Johnson and oh yeah Tim Couch.......worked for them!
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Old 03-14-2005   #251
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Casserly's original maifesto on 'How to Build an NFL team' did state to "Build through the draft"

HOWEVER another major point was "Secure the Offensive Tackle position NOW"
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Old 03-14-2005   #252
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Well I can only think of two reasons why I would give whatever I needed to get Pace.

1. Dwight
2. Freeney
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Old 03-14-2005   #253
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was mckinney's run blocking a big deal???

4 sacks given up, no false starts
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Old 03-14-2005   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginessey
Well I can only think of two reasons why I would give whatever I needed to get Pace.

1. Dwight
2. Freeney
i think thats the most rediculous thing ive read so far. maybe freeney is just good
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Old 03-14-2005   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
As to building the team, we have signed FA's as starters in 4 of the 6 line positions (if you include the TE) and Pitts was a 2nd rounder and Wand is a 3rd rounder to round out our line. On top of that the team picked up Tony Boselli in the expansion draft but obviously that didn't work out. If it did, we would have nothing but a veteran line with a second round pick in Pitts as our LG. Our goal was a veteran line with young developing, emerging skill players. Most people just donít slow down long enough to see that. With Pace we have what we wanted in Boselli all along. A veteran line with young developing skill players.

im just not sure that we are getting the bang for the buck on the o-line. with pace i bet we will have one of the most expensive lines in the league. and unless they do something to improve the middle of the line i think our o-oline will be middle of the pack. even with pace.

we are starting to drop a few players creating dead money and signing free agents for more than they are worth. i think we just have to be really careful signing a high priced player like pace. we had a lot more cap room when we signed boselli.
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Old 03-14-2005   #256
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In some cases the pass rush up the middle flushed Carr, and Wade or Wand got credited with giving up the sack when Carr tried to run around the end. Not much a tackle can do when he doesn't know the QB is coming past him from behind and the DE can see him.

Also the stats certainly don't tell the whole story. For instance, the best pass rusher was almost always the right end, our guards and center do more double teaming (two outside rushers, two inside vs. 5 O-lineman), and the Texan scheme rarely had the right DE double teamed. This also doesn't show the number of plays each player was in for. Yada, yada, yada.

Stats are a piece of evidence, but they don't tell the whole story.

Last edited by Runner; 03-14-2005 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 03-14-2005   #257
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Default Pace with the Rams

Pace has been good for us during the season. But with the contracts we have in addition to his, our hands are tied in free agency. I wish this would have gone through before Sharper signed but Hartwell is a good posibility with Pace gone. This is a great deal for both clubs. You will like him. He should be much more in shape after doing the training camps as well.
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Old 03-14-2005   #258
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Originally Posted by ccdude730
i think thats the most rediculous thing ive read so far. maybe freeney is just good
Nah - if he gets past Pace 2-3 times next year, Pace will be the biggest bust in Texan history and we'll have to break the bank to get John Ogden. :woot
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Old 03-14-2005   #259
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Originally Posted by Runner
Nah - if he gets past Pace 2-3 times next year, Pace will be the biggest bust in Texan history and we'll have to break the bank to get John Ogden. :woot

Freeney got past Ogden twice last yr during that sunday night game with BAL and IND.
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Old 03-14-2005   #260
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Default St. Louis News Reports

St. Louis local news is reporting that the Texans and OP have an agreement in principle. None of the Rams top brass have been contacted by the Texans as of 7:24PM CST. There has been no formal offer sheet. This being because the Texans don't want to give up two picks and would like to negotiate a trade. Top officials at Rams Park are saying that they will not come off of the two first picks. Looks like a Stalemate.
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