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Old 07-09-2010   #1
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Default Troy Nolan

...to start at FS. Any takers?

I remember coaches being high on him coming out of college. And its not like Wilson is a lock.
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Old 07-09-2010   #2
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

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Originally Posted by RipTraxx View Post
...to start at FS. Any takers?

I remember coaches being high on him coming out of college. And its not like Wilson is a lock.
I know GK was speaking highly of him during OTAs. I'm thinking that's why they weren't panicing like us message boarders were during the draft regarding the safety position. I'm looking forward to camp specificly to see what he brings. As I'd mentioned prior, he sure looked good on YouTube highlights. I'm sure there were lowlights as well, but the coaches obviously see something they like.

COME ON TRAINING CAMP!!
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Old 07-09-2010   #3
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Was it him or Brice Mccain that had the jets in terms of a clocked 40 time? I hope he works out because that would really make that 2009 draft class pretty special. Especially if Glover Quin can really come into his own.
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Old 07-09-2010   #4
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Right or wrong, I'm gonna guess that this coaching staff will shy away from starting a second year guy who spent his entire 1st year on IR in the opening game.

I think that both Nolan and Barber will see some time at FS, but unless we see a situation where the defense sucks and FS is a significant part of the reason (see Pollard replacing Barber at SS last season), then I think it's Wilson's job.

And again, this is my guess as to what will happen, not what should happen (I don't pretend to be a competent enough judge of talent to even attempt that).
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Old 07-09-2010   #5
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
Was it him or Brice Mccain that had the jets in terms of a clocked 40 time? I hope he works out because that would really make that 2009 draft class pretty special. Especially if Glover Quin can really come into his own.
McCain. I remember being not as high on Nolan as most, largely because he had a pedestrian 40 time. ( and yes, I know, 40 times are not the end all)
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Old 07-09-2010   #6
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

I think it's Wilson's job to lose, whether by performance or injury. However, like Okoye's situation, may the best man win. I think Kubiak has played the favoratism card in the past with vets and draft positions. All that crap needs to go out the window and field the best players at their positions.

If Nolan out-performs Wilson, he's in!
If JJ out-performs Walter, do it!
If Mitchell whoops Okoye, rookie or not, make the change!
If Foster continues to impress leave him at 1 no matter Tate's 2nd round money
So on....
So on....
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Old 07-09-2010   #7
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

I'd have to believe he will be given every opportunity to compete for it. But it is Wilson's job until someone beats him out for it.
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Old 07-09-2010   #8
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frak The Jags View Post
I'd have to believe he will be given every opportunity to compete for it. But it is Wilson's job until someone beats him out for it.
What he said.
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Old 07-10-2010   #9
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

One thing for sure is that Nolan is more athletic than Barber!
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Old 07-10-2010   #10
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
Was it him or Brice Mccain that had the jets in terms of a clocked 40 time? I hope he works out because that would really make that 2009 draft class pretty special. Especially if Glover Quin can really come into his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
McCain. I remember being not as high on Nolan as most, largely because he had a pedestrian 40 time. ( and yes, I know, 40 times are not the end all)

Running the 40 in 4:59 (called "pedestrian" here, and "marginal" by other sources) for a young FS is somewhat scarey to me.

Edit: Brice McCain clocked 4:34 and 4:30.
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Old 07-10-2010   #11
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Running the 40 in 4:59 (called "pedestrian" here, and "marginal" by other sources) for a young FS is somewhat scarey to me.

Edit: Brice McCain clocked 4:34 and 4:30.
Yep, which is why I am not all hyped up on him. I hope he is the answer, but I am not feeling it. Some players run slow but play fast, but I dont see it in Nolan.
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Old 07-10-2010   #12
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Running the 40 in 4:59 (called "pedestrian" here, and "marginal" by other sources) for a young FS is somewhat scarey to me.

Edit: Brice McCain clocked 4:34 and 4:30.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
Yep, which is why I am not all hyped up on him. I hope he is the answer, but I am not feeling it. Some players run slow but play fast, but I dont see it in Nolan.

smh i guess ed reed (4.57) would be a no no for you guys so

FS is all about instincts, play recognition and quickness of thought all i which nolan seems to have based on his youtube highlights and production from college. not to mention 4.5 range is adequate for a safety to begin with
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Old 07-10-2010   #13
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
smh i guess ed reed (4.57) would be a no no for you guys so

FS is all about instincts, play recognition and quickness of thought all i which nolan seems to have based on his youtube highlights and production from college. not to mention 4.5 range is adequate for a safety to begin with
Dont give me that bull shit. I have said in both my posts in this thread that 40 times are not the end all, and that some players play differently than their times. Nolan, from what I have seen, plays like he runs.

Oh, you watched some youtube highlights. My bad dude, you obviously know what you are talking about. Come on. Highlights are probably the worst scouting tool available. Even worse than reading other people's evaluations.
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Old 07-10-2010   #14
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
Dont give me that bull shit. I have said in both my posts in this thread that 40 times are not the end all, and that some players play differently than their times. Nolan, from what I have seen, plays like he runs.
Oh, you watched some youtube highlights. My bad dude, you obviously know what you are talking about. Come on. Highlights are probably the worst scouting tool available. Even worse than reading other people's evaluations.
well since we havent seen him play thats all we can go on. what do you mean he plays like he runs? what wonderful insight do you have?

all i know is (from those highlights) he looks fast when he gets the ball in his hands which is alot (instincts), makes some excellent reads & has enough closing speed to make plays

oh and i nearly forgot he occassionally runs down punt returners which usually means you're playing pretty fast
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Old 07-10-2010   #15
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

I just remember that last year the coaches were raving about his ball skills and the fact that he seemed to be intercepting passes at a prodigeous rate.
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Old 07-10-2010   #16
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
well since we havent seen him play thats all we can go on. what do you mean he plays like he runs? what wonderful insight do you have?

all i know is (from those highlights) he looks fast when he gets the ball in his hands which is alot (instincts), makes some excellent reads & has enough closing speed to make plays

oh an i nearly forgot he occassionally runs down punt returners which usually means you're playing pretty fast
I actually watched some of Arizona State's games that year. So yes, I would say I have better insight to his play than highlights. And the FO has more insight than me, obviously. My "excellent insight" that he plays how he runs, was just that he does not play faster than his recorded time.

Look, I am not going to argue that he was not a decent to good college player. 5 defensive TDs in 2 years is fantastic. I just dont think that he has the physical skills needed to play at the next level.

Lets take a look at a highlight clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kbInOFqoLc

First play: 100+ yard INT return for a TD. However, he had an open field. All the "skill" players were on the opposite side of the field. Virtually no contest, any DB or LB could have scored.

Second Play: basically the same thing. He had blockers as well. Also note that both picks were off tips.

Third play: I am noticing a pattern- tipped ball, returned for a score with no offensive players between him and the end zone. Again, any DB or LB could have scored that.

Fourth: Clean pick, but again, no offensive players between him and the score, him with at least 10 yards of a head start.

Fifth: Fumble return, same M.O. No jukes required, huge lead on people before the chase started.

I am going to stop it here. 5 TDs, all of them gift wrapped. He has good hands, but I am still not seeing anything that says "starting FS".
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Old 07-10-2010   #17
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
I actually watched some of Arizona State's games that year. So yes, I would say I have better insight to his play than highlights. And the FO has more insight than me, obviously. My "excellent insight" that he plays how he runs, was just that he does not play faster than his recorded time.

Look, I am not going to argue that he was not a decent to good college player. 5 defensive TDs in 2 years is fantastic. I just dont think that he has the physical skills needed to play at the next level.

Lets take a look at a highlight clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kbInOFqoLc

First play: 100+ yard INT return for a TD. However, he had an open field. All the "skill" players were on the opposite side of the field. Virtually no contest, any DB or LB could have scored.

Second Play: basically the same thing. He had blockers as well. Also note that both picks were off tips.

Third play: I am noticing a pattern- tipped ball, returned for a score with no offensive players between him and the end zone. Again, any DB or LB could have scored that.

Fourth: Clean pick, but again, no offensive players between him and the score, him with at least 10 yards of a head start.

Fifth: Fumble return, same M.O. No jukes required, huge lead on people before the chase started.

I am going to stop it here. 5 TDs, all of them gift wrapped. He has good hands, but I am still not seeing anything that says "starting FS".
see 2:25 on the vid. ive only ever seem one texans safety trick a qb like that. his name is bernard pollard and he did it to manning just before halftime in the first colts game last yr. not even mentioning the way he reads & fights off screen plays. how can you not be semi-excited when you see a guy that does that?

i agree. most if not all his tds were gimmies. dont really know why you did that big breakdown for something so blatant though. i was talking about the int plays when i said he plays plenty fast (especially 1:45 to 2:05 ish). Agree or disagree? also in case you missed it the first time- he runs down pr's which indicates he plays fast.
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Old 07-10-2010   #18
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
see 2:25 on the vid. ive only ever seem one texans safety trick a qb like that. his name is bernard pollard and he did it to manning just before halftime in the first colts game last yr. not even mentioning the way he reads & fights off screen plays. how can you not be semi-excited when you see a guy that does that?

i agree. most if not all his tds were gimmies. dont really know why you did that big breakdown for something so blatant though. i was talking about the int plays when i said he plays plenty fast (especially 1:45 to 2:05 ish). Agree or disagree? also in case you missed it the first time- he runs down pr's which indicates he plays fast.
Ok, I did not know if you thought the TDs were due to athleticism. My bad there.

One play does not mean anything. I had plays in hockey where I beat all 5 guys on the other team. Didnt get me into the NHL though. Again- I am not saying this guy should be cut. I am pulling for him, just like I pull for all Texans players. I just dont get the hype that people have for the guy.

Chasing down punt returners is good, but punt returners are not always running at full speed. They are looking for holes and stuff, thinking of where to go next.

It looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. I see a solid backup FS. But if he is starting, we are in trouble, especially against teams with vertical threats.
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Old 07-10-2010   #19
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

It looks that the Texans are still playing with the concept that the FS and SS should be interchangeable. Nolan should be considered a SS until proven otherwise. His athletic ability has to date not been proven, especially at this level. How many OTA "standouts" have faded into the sunset during preseason and regular season? And think about who he'll need to cover in our division, especially with the Colts. He won't be able to hover around the LOS and knock the snot out of players like in college. Some teams have dang good passing games, you know.

There's a reason he (and even Barber) didn't project better in the draft. The measurables were missing. I'm sure there is a bit of hope in all of us, that he becomes that "diamond in the rough." Attitude and desire and "instincts" will bring him so far. But without true NFL one-on-one on island cover skills, his "adequate" speed will only give him a better view of opposing TD celebrations.
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Old 07-10-2010   #20
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Default Re: Troy Nolan

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
First play: 100+ yard INT return for a TD. However, he had an open field. All the "skill" players were on the opposite side of the field. Virtually no contest, any DB or LB could have scored.

Second Play: basically the same thing. He had blockers as well. Also note that both picks were off tips.

Third play: I am noticing a pattern- tipped ball, returned for a score with no offensive players between him and the end zone. Again, any DB or LB could have scored that.

Fourth: Clean pick, but again, no offensive players between him and the score, him with at least 10 yards of a head start.

Fifth: Fumble return, same M.O. No jukes required, huge lead on people before the chase started.
First play: he was the one who tipped it...Agreed that there wasn't much competition on the return, but I'm more interested in how he reacted to the receiver's route...He made a good break on the ball and showed good hands to tip that ball and then make the catch. Looks pretty instinctive on that play.

Second play: he got an interception from a tipped ball from another player...But...Players who are consistently in good position tend to be the beneficiaries of plays like that...Look at this Brian Cushing highlight reel from last year you'll see that all but one of his picks came off of balls that were tipped. Again, players who are consistently in good position and around the ball tend to have good things go their way. I'm pretty sure if you look at the top INT guys in the NFL they have quite a few off of tipped balls. He also showed a good burst of speed on the run back...If you go back and look the outside receiver was right there when he made the pick, but he just accelerated and was gone.

Third play: Another tipped ball pick...Once again, he was in excellent position...Excellent position...

Fourth Play: This dude looks so f'n natural back there...Clean back pedal, Good position..Showed good acceleration to make the pick clean...The guy that he made the pick on wasn't even his man...He shows very good instincts back there...He back pedals and changes direections effortlessly..Wow..

Fifth Play: Again, Players who are consistently around the ball and in good position tend to get things to go their way...Shows good burst once he gets the ball in his hands...He may not be the fastest guy, but his acceleration is sick...May not be players in front of him but he's not giving guys an opportunity to catch him from behind either...

If you want to see some good run backs just keep watching the film...He splits a couple of would be tacklers and jukes a couple people on his other picks...Also, Dude just has some ridiculously sick picks/pass defenses even further demonstrating his good instincts if you keep watching...I'm sitting here watching the film and it's like he's seeing things I'm not seeing...

You don't get 5 td's and 10 int's just by accident...Dude has some good ball hawking skills...He isn't Pollard back there, but he looks physical enough..And I'm more concerned with ball hawking at that position...I had never watched any film on this guy until now, but just from seeing that little bit I'm kind of excited...

I think he has a real possiblity to start depending on how he's kept himself in shape during his year off, and if he has been studying...Looks like he brings more to the table than any other FS currently on the roster...Only thing they have him beat in is experience...
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