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Old 03-16-2005   #21
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I thought our defense played well against Minnesota.. they sucked a bit in the first half but pretty much shut them down in the second.

I think the worst game our defense played was against the Broncos.

I forgive them for the Colts because they did that to every team.
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Old 03-16-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by Grid
I thought our defense played well against Minnesota.. they sucked a bit in the first half but pretty much shut them down in the second.

I think the worst game our defense played was against the Broncos.

I forgive them for the Colts because they did that to every team.
I was at the Minnesota game. I thought the defense was outstanding in the 2nd half. Unfortunately they gave up the big play in ot. Andre Johnson was a monster in that game.
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Old 03-17-2005   #23
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Hey guys I'm a Panther fan here, so you can count on me for a complete 3rd person view since the Panthers and Texans are not only in separate divisions, but separate conferences.

The Texans defense isn't something that I would put down or make fun of much, because they are a very young team. The Texans have a lot of young key players on defense that are still developing, and the unit is still getting used to playing with each other. You wait. Every year they'll get better. If they don't break out this year, they'll be just simply retardedly good the year after. I have a feeling the Texans will have between the top 10 and top 15 defense this year. They are still too young to be one of the league's best I think, but it's coming.
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Old 03-19-2005   #24
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Babin was solid, 63 tackles and 4 sacks. D. Rob had 87 tackles 3 sacks. these 2 guys are solid players who can actually tackle. i think babin was never really given the chance to do what he will do eventually because he was still learning. alot of times it seemed like babin rushed conservatively, but he made the tackle if it came his way. hopefully next year, he'll be able to rush the QB more, and still make the tackle. as for D. Rob, all i see is a bright future.
i think the addition of greenwood gives the texans speed in the middle. i think sharper will stay this year and the texans will use wong, greenwood, sharper, babin as the LB starters with peek playing substantial time and wong playing more on the inside. i think having 5 good LBs would improve the D (more looks and schemes as well as a good rotation). i think we're set at the safety spots with some good young players. with coleman starting FS and a battle between earl and walker at SS. we also have Simmons who can play SS, FS, as well as DB. as for the DLine, i think we'll pick up a DL in the first 3 rounds. All in all i think the Texans defense will be improved over last season, unless we lose sharper and/or have injuries.
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Old 03-19-2005   #25
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The Texans defense isn't something that I would put down or make fun of much, because they are a very young team. The Texans have a lot of young key players on defense that are still developing, and the unit is still getting used to playing with each other. You wait. Every year they'll get better. ... They are still too young to be one of the league's best I think, but it's coming
That would be a great argument if it was true.

Texans defensive starters at the beginning of last season:

Walker - 10th season
Payne - 8th season
Smith - 5th season

Babin - R
Sharper - 8th season
Foreman - 6th season
Wong - 7th season

Robinson - R
Glenn - 11th season
Coleman - 9th season
Brown - 7th season

The Texans were a very veteran unit with two rookie starters at the beginning of the season and three rookie starters at the end of the season. The rookies did nothing to hamper the defense last season. If anything, they helped shore up weak areas from the year before.

By year's end, Robinson was arguably the best defensive player on the team and a big upgrade over Coleman at RCB. Brown was replaced by Earl (R) after the Denver game because Earl was the better player - more range, better speed. Babin (R) was as solid as you could expect for a guy changing positions.

The rookies did not hold this defense back. If anything, they held it up. It was up to the 8 or 9 vets to carry the D the first three seasons and as a group they were average at best at the end of their third season together.

The retooling at LB is just the beginning of the transformation of this defense. In the next year or two, the defense will lose three more starters (Glenn, Coleman, and Walker) because of age/salary. So the reality is the opposite of what you are saying: this defense is/was old as a unit and if anything it's going to get younger over the next few seasons.

Last edited by aj.; 03-19-2005 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 03-19-2005   #26
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The statement that our defense is a joke is stupid... Jokes make you laugh. When ever I think about our defense it makes me want to cry. What's funny about that!


I've posted this basic thought elsewhere, but Babin is okay. He made 63 tackles and had 4 sacks. We just gave up waaaaaaaay too much for him. But I mean that's not his fault. If we had picked him in the second round no one would be complaining. Maybe someone would have taken him before the Texans drafted in the second if the Texans hadn't moved up. In that case we could have taken someone else. Between when the Texans took Babin and when we would have drafted there were only two OLB's taken. If we hadn't moved up one of the teams that took those guys could have taken Babin... but then we could have taken the OLB they took. Who'd they take, you ask.

Arizona took Karlos Dansby and he wound up with 60 tackles and 1 sack and Detroit took Teddy Lehman and he only got 1 sack too... but 102 tackles.

So okay we got 63 and 4 and could of had 60 and 1 or 102 and 1.

Yeah... but what did Tennessee do with the picks we sent them... you ask.

Tennessee took Jacob Bell who starts for them at OG, DE/OLB Bo Schobel who only got into 5 games and made 15 tackles and Randy Starts who is a back up at DT but he had 4.5 sacks and TE Ben Troupe who backs up at TE but really had a better stat year than their starter.

Okay... But remember the Texans got those 3 extra sacks from Babin over the two guys they could have had... And well... okay Lehman did have 39 more tackles but...

And besides would those guys Tennessee took really have helped the team... Considering where the Texans are weak... would it be better to have added that DT, and TE and OG and OLB... Okay, okay... I know what you're saying... "But aren't we weak at DT, TE and OG and OLB...?" Or maybe, if you're really picky, you're saying, "well actually we could have taken Lehman instead of Troupe with our second round pick. Then we would have had his 102 tackles and a great back up DT and at least a back up at OG and a practice squard OLB that may move up next year due to the loss of Sharper."

And my responses is... "Well yeah... but I don't see anything funny about it."
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Old 03-19-2005   #27
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The only way our defense struggles this year is if we continue to have trouble getting to the QB. Our secondary is really coming around and if our d-line/lb's can get more pressure we could have a dominant d and I think we will at times. Otherwise, it doesn't matter just look at the difference in the two games against the colts the second of which we were getting to peyton and we set the tone of how to slow them down. Obviously the Patriots had the most success of getting to him and look what they did. I don't know if we can get better pressure with the same group of guys but you have to figure they will improve over last year. Hopefully we get another top flight corner that will allow us to scheme more. On the other hand the Patriots won it all with young mediocre corners because their d-line/lb's do such a good job of pressuring at the right time. I am just not sure who we could draft to bring more heat hopefully Peek and a more mature Babin will create some havoc.

I mentioned yesterday that Babin trade seemed questionable considering our lack of depth and got a deserving earful for sounding so arrogant on my first day here. That's not my finest quality and I think CC has done a great job of putting a strong nucleus of young players together. I just happened to bring up the fact that one incident involved a lot of opportunity cost. It's incredibly difficult to speculate on what ifs but it would of been nice to have Tatum Bell or Julius Jones to compliment DD. Those two were in the next few picks after Troupe went to Tennessee. Add in two more players that we gave up and I think we would easily look as good as we do now. The Titans scored big on Jacob Bell and I think they actually got Starks with the pick they already had but he really came on strong for them in the second half. Of course all the scouting in the world might not produce a great player and a little luck is involved but this seems to be a deep draft and if we draft well and often we are going to be a force very soon.
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Old 03-19-2005   #28
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Originally Posted by The Preacher
I The Titans scored big on Jacob Bell and I think they actually got Starks with the pick they already had but he really came on strong for them in the second half.
According to the GBNreport all the players I mentioned, including Starks, were taken with the picks they got from us.
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Old 03-19-2005   #29
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The Texans d will be fine. Peek is possibly the best pass rushing lb we have, he is also a play maker. It seemed like every time he got in the game(not as much as he should have) he was sacking someone or forcing a fumble. We also have a lot of youth on the defense that will have a lot more experience this year. Babin should do a lot better with a whole year under his belt and DR could be a pro bowl db after this season is over. The key to our d is keeping everyone healthy ESPECIALLY the d-line.
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Old 03-19-2005   #30
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The operative word there is seems. He has 3 career NFL sacks.
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Old 03-19-2005   #31
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You're right hound my bad they took Starks at #71 and Rich Gardner with their second 3rd rounder.
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Old 03-19-2005   #32
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Damn good posting Hound. I meant funny in the way a kid getting hit by a car is funny.
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Old 03-19-2005   #33
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This is how the Texans Titans trade boiled down in the end:

The Texans gave Tenenssee a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in exchange for a 1st and 5th**

The Texans later traded to Jax the 5th they got from Tennessee for a 6th and a 7th.

In the end:

Texans Get
1st round, No. 27: Jason Babin, LB
6th round, No. 175: Jammal Lord, FS
7th round, No. 210: Raheem Orr, LB

Titans Get:
2nd round, No. 40: Ben Troupe, TE
3rd round, No. 71: Randy Starks, DT
4th round, No. 103: Bo Schobel, DE
5th round, No. 138 Jacob Bell, G

** The teams swapped positions in the 1st and 2nd, the Texans gave the Titans a 3rd and a 4th, and the teams swapped 5th's.
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Old 03-19-2005   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresno8
I think everything is falling into place for this team. We're getting younger and holes we had are filling nicely. My only concern is the o-line. I hope we hit a homer in the draft on o-lineman or we could be in a little trouble. We have Greenwood, Peek, Babin, + draft pick, our secondary is coming together nicely (pretty young), I guess I have a little concern about our d-line, but a good draft pick will help erase that. Really if we get a better more consistent pass rush our D will be pretty good. Don't worry too much yet.

Personally I think Casserly and Capers both looking to either move up or stand pat depending on what O-line there is available. LBs getting faster, strong in Secondary, Payne (please god let him play like 2002-2003) coming back with a full minicamp, training camp preseason to get ready. Only weakness that is glaring is O-line...we need to stop the bleeding when Carr gets time (and Palmers calls for a DEEP one) things can happen
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Old 03-19-2005   #35
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The essence of the trade if you translate picks into players was us xchanging Troupe & Starks for Babin. We've probably got a good young football player
at a critical need position. But the Titans can argue that they got 2 good young football players. I'll leave it at that - this topic has been revisted enough times by now.
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