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Old 04-26-2010   #1
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Default Pretty disappointing draft

Ok , I get it that Smithiak prefers CBs that can run forward and bang someone but aren't our linebackers suppose to do most of that? FS has been identified for years as a weak position and we pull a trick like last draft with RB and don't draft one? Jackson is not a cover guy but a Dunta clone just a tad faster. Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty. Will he start? Yeah probably. Was he best choice? Well, we will never know. We trade down and get an extra 3rd then have to punt it away to move back into second round to get Tate? Wow, that is a good trade. Oh, right we did get another 4th (was it spent wisely?) and a 5th to replace what we gave away but wait; we moved up 8 spots for drum roll please Cb Sherrick McManus! Uh, who? Most of you know that I do a lot of research and RMartin65, Beerlover and I did countless hours of research in putting together mocks for this draft and when Texans drafted him was first time I ever heard his name. Draft day picks as rounds develop:

1.Texans: Kareem Jackson 5'10 196 4.40 great within 20 yards and better not guess wrong or he will never catch up.
Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

3.Texans: Earl Mitchell 6'3" 296 &fast. Guess we will see if he can get through the middle. This isn't Barwin speeding in from the outside. If it works, great move! If it doesn't, someone should be taken to the woodshed. Pretty risky for a 3rd.
Badboy: We had Mike Johnson, Rennie Curran (OLB) and Tony Moeaki there.
I really considered the OLB but thought TE bigger need as I don't have medical info on how our vets are doing. My Pick:Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

4.A Sharpton5'11"236 ILB to convert to Will. I really like this guy but not a need position nor BPA.
Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04...pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.
4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

5. Texans:McManus, I covered above.
Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

6a Texans: Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs.
Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

7.DD ok but you know who I mean. I am ok with this pick but with Gettis who is better, we could go with my guy.
Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.

I was expecting to come out today bragging on how the Texans had shut up all the critics with an outstanding draft. That did not happen.

Rating- C that I meritoriously moved up to C+ for Smith accepting RMartin65's telephone call and going with his itty bitty missile, Holliday.
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Old 04-26-2010   #2
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

I think our Round 1 and Round 2 picks will be consistent performers.

Round 3 is where there might be trouble. Our history of drafting DTs is awful.

After Round 3, I think it's a crap shoot no matter who is taken, or why he was taken. I think some players succeed, where others might fail, because of how well they match up for the offense or defense system they're plugged into.

If Smithiak selected players less on "project" and more on "gameday readiness" then I'm good with who we took. I actually like this draft better than last year's, with the exception of the Cushing pick which will never be matched. It was an Andre Johnson type of pick, IMO. Should have been so obvious, but 14 teams before us were blinded somehow.

Thanks for the analysis. You obviously put a lot of work into it, as did some others you mentioned. Next year, it would be cool to have you guys writing weekly discussion "Question & Answer" columns for this board (to discuss potential draft picks with the rest of us).
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Old 04-26-2010   #3
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

The team has had the same three weaknesses forever: poor secondary (specifically as it relates to the big play and lack of creating a big play), no interior pass rush (those smaller, quick, agile DTs are really working out, huh?), and no running game when it counts. The running game has had moments, but I don't think adding Tate, a 6th round G, and 7 TEs is going to help get the short yardage. We'll see. I'm cautiously more optimistic about the running game being fixed than I am the other two areas.

So if this draft yields a bunch of good players, I still don't see those 3 key areas being resolved. It's like having 25 stud pitchers on your major league roster. That's great, but who hits?
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Old 04-26-2010   #4
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.

We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.
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Old 04-26-2010   #5
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.

We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.
If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?
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Old 04-26-2010   #6
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?
I think he's referring the ILB pick in the 4th who has already been deemed a special teams player and back up LB. He will compete for a LB job, but likely won't be the starter in 2010. I have to agree on that one if that's what he's referring to. I don't like the pick either, and I think he could have been picked later in the 4th or 5th. We needed a big 2-gap DT in the 3rd and pass rushing DT in the 4th to help fix the line. DT is still a weakness for this team, just like it has been since 2002.

If he's complaining about Holliday, the late 6th pick, well then I guess he's just being nitpicky. I like that pick myself, but I also see how he can be an impact player for this team and possibly replace the aging Andre Davis. To me that was a good value considering the draft position.
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Old 04-26-2010   #7
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Ok , I get it that Smithiak prefers CBs that can run forward and bang someone but aren't our linebackers suppose to do most of that? FS has been identified for years as a weak position and we pull a trick like last draft with RB and don't draft one? Jackson is not a cover guy but a Dunta clone just a tad faster. Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty. Will he start? Yeah probably. Was he best choice? Well, we will never know. We trade down and get an extra 3rd then have to punt it away to move back into second round to get Tate? Wow, that is a good trade. Oh, right we did get another 4th (was it spent wisely?) and a 5th to replace what we gave away but wait; we moved up 8 spots for drum roll please Cb Sherrick McManus! Uh, who? Most of you know that I do a lot of research and RMartin65, Beerlover and I did countless hours of research in putting together mocks for this draft and when Texans drafted him was first time I ever heard his name. Draft day picks as rounds develop:

1.Texans: Kareem Jackson 5'10 196 4.40 great within 20 yards and better not guess wrong or he will never catch up.
Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

I'm not huge on the pick, but at least pleased they put a premium on improving the back end of the defense. Only problem I have with your analysis is you have Jackson running a 4.40 saying he won't catch up to people, and Kyle Wilson as 4.43. Seems to contradict a little.

I'm not a big fan of Nick Saban the person, but his defensive guys usually come to the NFL ready to play.


2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

I think Tate is a much better fit for what the Texans offense does. Gerhart doesn't have a good history of being a target out of the backfield. Not saying he was asked to at Standford or that he can't be one. Just right out of the box I think Tate's skill set fits better.

In the end I think it's going to be hard to make the comparison because Gerhart will do good in Minnesota where they aren't going to ask him to be the guy, he's not going to be called on to be a weapon out of the backfield, and he's going to have an OL in front of him that is capable of opening big holes in the running game.


3.Texans: Earl Mitchell 6'3" 296 &fast. Guess we will see if he can get through the middle. This isn't Barwin speeding in from the outside. If it works, great move! If it doesn't, someone should be taken to the woodshed. Pretty risky for a 3rd.
Badboy: We had Mike Johnson, Rennie Curran (OLB) and Tony Moeaki there.
I really considered the OLB but thought TE bigger need as I don't have medical info on how our vets are doing. My Pick:Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

TE isn't a need and I'm not sure Moeaki is the BPA at this point. Agree on the risk of taking Mitchell here. Looks like is sticking to smaller DL and hoping to get they shoot gaps as opposed getting a push up the middle.So far the resutls haven't been spectacular.However, you know Gary and Rick can't help but gamble on draft day because they don't make big moves in FA.

My choice would've been Johnson.


4.A Sharpton5'11"236 ILB to convert to Will. I really like this guy but not a need position nor BPA.
Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04...pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.
4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

4aAt the moment I am in full agreement on he's not BPA or at a strong need position. Guy I would've picked is Bruce Campbell. Worst case scenario the guy becomes the 4th tackle on the team and if Brown doesn't work out next year we have a nice prospect in the fold.

4b. Guess the FO is really concerned about the state of our TEs. From reports I've heard OD is on schedule. Looks like last year's pick of Casey hasn't worked out well as the FO thought it might. Didn't like it anyway. I would've looked at Al Woods here.


5. Texans:McManus, I covered above.
Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

Would be fine with Johnson here, Also would've like Petrus from Ark or Matt Tennant C from BC.

Not sure McManus is BPA and we're going to have a hard time wedding out CBs at this point.


6a Texans: Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs.
Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

6aI have a shallow bit of hope Smith can compete with one of the OG and upgrade the spot even a little. Not going to hold my breath though.

I actually thought Tony Pike would've been a good pickup here seeing as we don't have a 3rd that I know of. Pike's got a chance to develop here.

6b. Ecstatic with this pick. The guy has speed to burn and will add a spark to the team. I think he'll be a huge weapon in the return game and as TC rolls on I just feel like the staff is going to have to try and find ways to get this guy the ball. Yeah he's small, but he's tough, has survived in SEC and will be killer on screen plays and can turn dump off passes into big gains.

Easily my favorite pick of this draft.


7.DD ok but you know who I mean. I am ok with this pick but with Gettis who is better, we could go with my guy.
Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.

Really at this point no problem with the pick. Perhaps Dickerson can compete for a roster spot. Seems to have good speed and size.

I was expecting to come out today bragging on how the Texans had shut up all the critics with an outstanding draft. That did not happen.

Rating- C that I meritoriously moved up to C+ for Smith accepting RMartin65's telephone call and going with his itty bitty missile, Holliday.
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.
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Old 04-26-2010   #8
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.
Well, the only silver lining of this draft to me is that it seems we had a better draft than the rest of our division. If nothing else, we can pull away from the Jags and Titans to contest with the Colts for the division title this year. They play nearly the same opponents as we do, so hopefully they will have just as much trouble as us with the NFC East.
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Old 04-26-2010   #9
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

Thanks badboy for the draft thoughts. Rep.

You are either going to look brilliant, or lose a little draft cred in 2-3 years. Either way your words have been marked!
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Old 04-26-2010   #10
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty.
Hey, I wasn't stupefyingly thrilled with all the Texans selections, but where do you get the idea that only the Texans had Jackson rated highest at the time? Good lord, even Kiper had him rated as the highest CB available at the time and his choices aren't exactly secret.

If we got a legitimate #1 CB in the first round, we've improved (Dunta was nobody's #1 but us)
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Old 04-26-2010   #11
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Well, the only silver lining of this draft to me is that it seems we had a better draft than the rest of our division. If nothing else, we can pull away from the Jags and Titans to contest with the Colts for the division title this year. They play nearly the same opponents as we do, so hopefully they will have just as much trouble as us with the NFC East.
I do think we drafted better than The Jags and Titans. If we can sweep those two I think we have a shot at a decent record next year. Problem with the Colts drafts are at the outset they don't look impressive necessarily, but they do well to identify players that fits their needs and fit well with what they want to do. Oh yeah, and they still have Manning under center and two young WRs to go along with Wayne and Dallas Clark.

Do hope the NFC East helps beat up the rest of the division for us.
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Old 04-26-2010   #12
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

To the original post:
Ok I mean this as a totally honest question: have you looked back on previous drafts and looked at players you thought were good late round picks? Have they had any success?

I don't mean to sound like I'm taking one side or the other here, just wondering how successful you have been in the past at the scouting game.
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Old 04-26-2010   #13
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I think our Round 1 and Round 2 picks will be consistent performers.

Round 3 is where there might be trouble. Our history of drafting DTs is awful.

After Round 3, I think it's a crap shoot no matter who is taken, or why he was taken. I think some players succeed, where others might fail, because of how well they match up for the offense or defense system they're plugged into.

If Smithiak selected players less on "project" and more on "gameday readiness" then I'm good with who we took. I actually like this draft better than last year's, with the exception of the Cushing pick which will never be matched. It was an Andre Johnson type of pick, IMO. Should have been so obvious, but 14 teams before us were blinded somehow.

Thanks for the analysis. You obviously put a lot of work into it, as did some others you mentioned. Next year, it would be cool to have you guys writing weekly discussion "Question & Answer" columns for this board (to discuss potential draft picks with the rest of us).
Awesome suggestion and thanks for the compliment. Not sure RMartin65 and Beerlover want to go through that again but I just love it. Of course I did not learn from my first divorce either. Maybe you could drop me a pm after this season ends to remind me. I understand also about the "get them on the field NOW" mentality but then again, maybe we should not be in that position? I have for the most part defended Kubiak and Rick Smith but they really need to turn it up and I am not sure this draft will do that. I still love our over all roster but...
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Old 04-26-2010   #14
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
The team has had the same three weaknesses forever: poor secondary (specifically as it relates to the big play and lack of creating a big play), no interior pass rush (those smaller, quick, agile DTs are really working out, huh?), and no running game when it counts. The running game has had moments, but I don't think adding Tate, a 6th round G, and 7 TEs is going to help get the short yardage. We'll see. I'm cautiously more optimistic about the running game being fixed than I am the other two areas.

So if this draft yields a bunch of good players, I still don't see those 3 key areas being resolved. It's like having 25 stud pitchers on your major league roster. That's great, but who hits?
Very well put. I have advocated a big DT to stop the run and push the center back into the QB to disrupt. Sacks are great from the middle but take what we can get. Then, the new D coaches were able to stop the run so to be fair, I had to shut up. If we could get our DEs to get the sacks, I'd be ok with smaller DTs. Just not sure how a fast, smaller DT gets past the mashed tater eaters on the other side.

Free safety? Once we knew Earl Thomas was gone, I thought we would draft for FS 4-5th rounds. I was focused on Robert Johnson Utah who went about where I projected him and was stunned on Rashad Jones. He is going to be a player if he does not hurt himself crashing into opponents. I think he want to be a bulldozer after football is over.
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Old 04-26-2010   #15
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by TexCanada View Post
To the original post:
Ok I mean this as a totally honest question: have you looked back on previous drafts and looked at players you thought were good late round picks? Have they had any success?

I don't mean to sound like I'm taking one side or the other here, just wondering how successful you have been in the past at the scouting game.
I think what we do ... me included ... is watch some games , youtube videos , and read from some guys who may not know much , and get names . When these names start falling and we pick a guy that Joe Blow ranked lower ... we panic . Then we pick a position that we feel is not a need and all hell breaks lose .

Right now you can't get to up or to down about the draft because nobody knows what's going to happen with these players . So I'll just wait and see and hopefully we get 4-5 guys who contribute alot this year .
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Old 04-26-2010   #16
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

Maybe we're still really high on Troy Nolan
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Old 04-26-2010   #17
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
Maybe we're still really high on Troy Nolan
Can't see how you can be high on a guy that was injured his entire rookie year. IMO this is Brandon Harrison 2.0.

IMO they're banking a LOT on Wilson being healthy this year and I think that's a mistake.
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Old 04-26-2010   #18
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.
We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.
Two guys I had focused on for center JD Walton and Eric Olsen were selected by Denver. Imagine that. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...;pageContainer

Your statement in bold is on target. I alomst wished we drafted someone who was extremely good but not projected to play on ST.
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Old 04-26-2010   #19
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?
Not to speak for Sh but I thought his comments were directed at every player we look at has to be able to play special teams. Not necessarily a bad thing but go get great players. If they can play ST ok. Holliday is exceptional at what he does. 65 and Beerlover and I think he will make a positive impact every game. How many Texans do that?
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Old 04-26-2010   #20
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Default Re: Pretty disappointing draft

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I think he's referring the ILB pick in the 4th who has already been deemed a special teams player and back up LB. He will compete for a LB job, but likely won't be the starter in 2010. I have to agree on that one if that's what he's referring to. I don't like the pick either, and I think he could have been picked later in the 4th or 5th. We needed a big 2-gap DT in the 3rd and pass rushing DT in the 4th to help fix the line. DT is still a weakness for this team, just like it has been since 2002.

If he's complaining about Holliday, the late 6th pick, well then I guess he's just being nitpicky. I like that pick myself, but I also see how he can be an impact player for this team and possibly replace the aging Andre Davis. To me that was a good value considering the draft position.
Most of the good big DTs were gone by our original 2nd round pick and many fans are ok with a RB, but I do feel your pain.
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