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Old 03-08-2005   #1
texansalltheway
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Default Mock 2.0

1.San Francisco 49'ers: Aaron Rodgers, QB, California
-Always smart to rebuild around a franchise QB

2. Miami Dolphins: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
-Brown has emerged as the best of the trio, he will take pressure off of Freely

3. Cleveland Browns: Derrick Johnson, LB, Texas
-After getting Dilfer, Crennel moves to the 3-4 and picks up the best linebacker in the draft

4. Chicago Bears: Mike Williams, WR, USC
-Better hands and toughness than Edwards, fits into the Bears/Lovie Smith mold of player

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn
-Worst kept secret in NFL (kind of like the Cardinals pick of Fitzgerald fits a need and coach likes player)

6. Tennessee Titans: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State
- Need WR & CB but biggest need is OL which has always been a strength and priority for a Fisher team

7. Minnesota: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
- After the departure of Moss they need a playmaker to stretch the field.

8. Arizona Cardinals: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
-With Emmitt retiring they pick up a franchise back in Ced Benson. Will take pressure off of McCown and Co.

9. Washington Redskins: Pac-Man Jones, CB, West Virgina
-Losing Bailey and possibly Smoot makes this pick a no-brainer

10. Detroit Lions: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
-After drafting offense they need to go defense, Rolle is physical enough to make the move to safety if needed

11. Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merriman, OLB-DE, Maryland
- Switching to a 3-4 they need a big outside pass rusher and Merriman is the best there is.

12. San Diego Chargers: Marcus Spears, DE, L.S.U.
-Switching to a 3-4 they need DE likes Spears who will gives them a double threat at that position

13. St. Louis: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma
-Turley is gone and maybe Pace so a OT is a must

14. Carolina Panthers: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin
-They need an OT but Barnes would be a reach here so they go for the #1 rated pass rushing DE

15. Kansas City Chiefs: Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
Any defensive player would be a good pick here, and Rogers is still a very talented corner

16. New Orleans Saints: Channing Crowder, ILB, Florida
-Saints have one of the worst run defenses in the league and can use a playmaker at LB

17. Cincinnati Bengals: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida St
- Run defense was horrible for the Bengeals and an upgrade up the middle is necessary

18. Minnesota Vikings: Thomas Davis, S, Georgia
-Chavous and Russell slipped a bit and an upgrade isnít out of the question with such a bad pass defense

19. Houston Texans: Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina
-Carr and Johnson could use another playmaker plus they pick up an extra draft pick (3rd rd)

20. Dallas Cowboys (f/BUF): Brodney Pool, S, Oklahoma
-Would allow Williams to move back to his natural position of SS

21. Jacksonville Jaguars: Justin Tuck, DE, Notre Dame
-The DE position was a disaster last year and Tuck could give a boost to the pass rush

22. Baltimore Ravens: Roddy White, WR, UAB
-Has big play ability and gives Boller another weapon downfield

23. Seattle Seahawks: Kevin Burnett, OLB, Tennessee.
-Extremely athletic and could give the Seahawks D a boost, especially in their LB corp

24. Green Bay Packers: Alex Smith, QB, Utah
-Packer nation is ecstatic that the draftís #2 QB falls this far.

25. Denver Broncos: Shaun Cody, DT, USC
-Even after getting Warren, Denver still needs to improve there defensive line

26. New York Jets: Heath Miller, TE, Virginia
-A QB like Pennington needs big pass catching TE to check down to, look at what Gates did for Brees

27. Atlanta Falcons: Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma
-Gives Vick another weapon downfield

28. San Diego Chargers: Anttaj Hawthorne, DT, Wisconsin
-Switching to a 3-4 they need big men that can rush the passer and stop the run

29. Indianapolis Colts: Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
-They need bigger more physical corners because their pass defense is horrendous

30. Pittsburgh Steelers: Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
- A athletic playmaker in the secondary

31. Philadelphia Eagles: Jerome Mathis, WR, Hampton
- a speedster to stretch the field and take heat off of TO

32. New England Patriots: Khalif Barnes, OL, Washington
-Patriots lost Woody last year and Andruzzi this year to FA, get a big athletic OL that can play G or T

Houston:

RD 1. (19) Troy Williamson-WR

RD 2. (47) David Baas-OG
-Carr/Davis/and Johnson are extremely happy with the first two picks

RD 2. *(51) Antonio Perkins-CB/return
-The versatile return man that Caper values

RD 3. (74) Marcus Lawrence-ILB
-Depth inside in case Sharper and/or Foreman leaves (from South Carolina so McNair is pleased)

RD 4. (109) Brandon Jacobs-RB
-The physical bruiser to compliment DD that Caper values (hoping that 4th rd magic works again)

RD 5. (141) Anthony Bryant-NT
-Big nose tackle for depth

RD 6. (173) Anthony Curtis-TE
-Another project TE, this time he can block and is working on catching

RD 7. (205) Antwaun Rogers-CB
-Canít have too many CB with Peyton, McNair, and Leftwich, especially if they are 6í2Ē and run 4.39

Traded down with Rams so they can pick up OT, picked up their 3rd rd pick
Traded our 3rd rd and Rams 3rd rd to Packers for their extra 2nd rd pick to get Perkins
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Old 03-08-2005   #2
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I am ok with that pick but if we trade down I rather us pick up Heath Miller than Williamson. Also doubtful Baas will still be there with our 2nd round pick, he is being projected in the 1st round by a lot of people. I do have to say I wouldnt mind getting another big time reciever though.
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Old 03-08-2005   #3
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not a bad mock.. problems I see are:

* We only take one Dlineman and he is in the 5th round. we need youth for our Dline.
* We didnt take a QB and you KNOW we will. (then again.. we have two rookies behind Carr, maybe we will hold off on getting another one until we get rid of one of them)
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Old 03-08-2005   #4
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where to start

mike williams to miami @ #2 (sorry ronnie brown fans)

cleveland needs a young franchise QB

oh yes the Texans trade, fair value between the 13th (1150) and the 19th (875) is 275. the rams have two 3rd rd picks #70 (240) & #81 (185). we'll assume you mean their 1st 3rd pick #70 but that is not fair value for trading down.

baas will not be on the board @ #47

otherwise its a nicely detailed mock that obviously took some thought & effort. nice overall
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Old 03-08-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
cleveland needs a young franchise QB

oh yes the Texans trade, fair value between the 13th (1150) and the 19th (875) is 275. the rams have two 3rd rd picks #70 (240) & #81 (185). we'll assume you mean their 1st 3rd pick #70 but that is not fair value for trading down.
IMO, Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith both aren't top 5 pick worthy, especially Alex Smith, who I think is definitely not even in the top 10. So unless Aaron Rodgers does fall down to the Browns they're going to go for DJ.

Also, this draft class in not really deep talentwise so the value for trading is lesser compared to last year's draft. So in case the Rams do acually trade picks with us, I think CC will be happy to only swap the 1st Rd picks and get the 3rd pick(#70). I will be very shocked if any team with a top 15 pick that decides to trade down has the upper hand than the team trading up.
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Old 03-08-2005   #6
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I like most of the mock...

Good job ...

The only thing I don't like is Perkins in the 2nd...
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Old 03-08-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoNghoRn-TeXaN
IMO, Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith both aren't top 5 pick worthy, especially Alex Smith, who I think is definitely not even in the top 10. So unless Aaron Rodgers does fall down to the Browns they're going to go for DJ.

Also, this draft class in not really deep talentwise so the value for trading is lesser compared to last year's draft. So in case the Rams do acually trade picks with us, I think CC will be happy to only swap the 1st Rd picks and get the 3rd pick(#70). I will be very shocked if any team with a top 15 pick that decides to trade down has the upper hand than the team trading up.
thats a common misconception about the 05 draft "this draft class in not really deep talentwise". I tend to beleive its better than average with the exception of the 1st couple of picks because there is no clear #1. Matt Leinart comes out then you have a consensus, but he didn't and in reality is not as good NFL prospect as Rodgers anyway in my opinion. And just because you don't have consensus at the top doesn't mean the rest of the draft is weak. Now last years draft was probably the best NFL draft ever, talent wise. So yes it does seem like this is a down year but in reality thats just not the case.

after Manning & Gallery I could debate that Braylon is equal talent to Fitzgerald, that Rodgers is as good as Rivers, or that Derrick Johnson is a playmaker just like Sean Taylor and doesn' take a back seat to him for nothing. There is no Winslow in this draft so that is a negative for the TE position, clearly superior to Heath Miller, but then @ #7 Roy Williams last year I beleive that Mike Williams was rated higher. DeAngelo Hall = Adam Jones. Reggie Williams is he better than Troy Williamson? What about Dunta Robinson? pre draft how many of us thought he would be as good as Antrell Rolle? This year you have three quality top 10 RB's last year the first Rb was not selected until near the end of the 1st round (#25).
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Old 03-08-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosusu
I am ok with that pick but if we trade down I rather us pick up Heath Miller than Williamson. Also doubtful Baas will still be there with our 2nd round pick, he is being projected in the 1st round by a lot of people. I do have to say I wouldnt mind getting another big time reciever though.
Agreed. Any scenario that has us moving down is o.k. by me. Thinking Bass will get by Bilichick is very wishful thinking. Round peg in a round hole. But there's a lot of tallent in that 32-70 range that could help the Texan's.

Very nice mock. I agree that the Titans will fix the o-line with their #7. Seen a lot of mocks with them picking players all over the board. They've bit the cap apple and they can afford to start rebuilding thier lines. They ain't going anywhere next year. It's a cheap pick for them. Right up Bud's alley. Hopkin's won't last forever.

Won't nit pick but the small school guys and the off the radar guys will start rising up the boards after the school work outs. Happens every year. Some of the guys we think are locks will start to fall out of favor. Noticed the first Cody falls @ 25 in your first round, interesting.
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Old 03-09-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
where to start

oh yes the Texans trade, fair value between the 13th (1150) and the 19th (875) is 275. the rams have two 3rd rd picks #70 (240) & #81 (185). we'll assume you mean their 1st 3rd pick #70 but that is not fair value for trading down.
Nothing wrong with that trade. Toss your value chart out the window, particularly this year when its a trade-upers market. What is significant is the Texans - who probably would have been willing to taken Justin Miller or Troy Williamson at #13 pick up a 3rd round and STILL get to choose between both players.

That extra 3rd + #47 could well become a Baas, Brown or Cody, players that we're not likely to get at #47.
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Old 03-09-2005   #10
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It is a weak class at the top. The second round talent is much wider than normal, so we'll get about 2 second rounds (starting in the middle of the first through the middle of the third). RB, interior OL and CB are all up this year, but everything else is down.

QB - Rodgers and Smith vs. Roth and Manning - Rivers was picked earlier, but I never understood what SD was smoking there, sorta like the Boller pick from the year before. OK, this comparison isn't even close.

RB - No contest. Last year was called the worst RB class in ages. This is the best.

WR - Fitz vs. Edwards - that's a wash. Williams vs. Williams - I think Roy is better, Mikey's good, but he's not the second coming everyone acts like he is. Williams vs. Williamson - Probably have to give this one to Williamson. So far we're 1-1-1, right ... ah, but he'res the big difference coming up - Lee Evans (OROY after Roth) vs. Roddy White.

TE - Winslow vs. Miller - OK, I detest KW2 but this is still a landslide for him.

OT - Gallery + Andrews vs Barron + Brown - Another clear advantage for last year.

Interior OL - Carey + ??? vs. E.Brown + Baas + Spencer - OK, this is pretty lopsided in favor of this year.

DL - Harris + Udeze + Wilfork vs. James + T.Johnson + Pollack - Another clear advantage for last year, even if Udeze has disappointed a bit.

LB - Vilma + Williams + Babin vs. DJ + Merriman + ??? (Burnett? Thomas Davis?) - The problem here is those question marks. And they're big question marks as Vilma and Williams both did exceptionally well their rookie seasons.

CB - Hall + Dunta + Gamble vs. Pac-man + Rolle + Miller- It's something of a push at this level, but at the next tier, this year's class clearly runs away with it (Rogers, Jackson, McFadden)

S - Taylor vs. Shazor (Davis is a NFL LB, not SS) - Please.
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Old 03-09-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarg01
RB - No contest. Last year was called the worst RB class in ages. This is the best.
It seemed that way on draft day but a few RBs had very successful rookie seasons. Kevin Jones, Julius Jones and Steven Jackson (considering he had to split with Faulk and play in a pass first, pass second, pass third offense.)

Tatum Bell also did well when he started to get carries at the end of the year and Mewelde Moore averaged 5.8 yards a carry in limited action.
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Old 03-09-2005   #12
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yes the chart is only a guideline but I seriously doubt the Texans are going to want to trade down that bad, despite what people continue to say about this draft being a trade-uppers market
  • the need to aquire a position or player outweighs the loss of picks
  • highly rated prospect on your board falls unexpetedly and is available
  • you wish to secure a player rumored to be gone by the time you select

we'll use last year with the Texans giving up #40, #71, #103 & #138 (860) for the Titans #27th pick (680) as a real example we can all understand. the team who wants to move up not down pays the price and usually always more than the draft pick value chart specifies. I'm simply echoing those sentiments that just because the talent pool is not as deep as last year does not mean the values & the way buisness regarding NFL trades on draft day suddenly does a 180. c'mon now be realistic & look at history
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Old 03-09-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
yes the chart is only a guideline but I seriously doubt the Texans are going to want to trade down that bad, despite what people continue to say about this draft being a trade-uppers market
  • the need to aquire a position or player outweighs the loss of picks
  • highly rated prospect on your board falls unexpetedly and is available
  • you wish to secure a player rumored to be gone by the time you select

we'll use last year with the Texans giving up #40, #71, #103 & #138 (860) for the Titans #27th pick (680) as a real example we can all understand. the team who wants to move up not down pays the price and usually always more than the draft pick value chart specifies. I'm simply echoing those sentiments that just because the talent pool is not as deep as last year does not mean the values & the way buisness regarding NFL trades on draft day suddenly does a 180. c'mon now be realistic & look at history
We paid the price for falling in love with a specific player - just as Cleveland did with KW2 (in our defense, we came out a heckuva lot better then them). It's certainly true that if the trade-down GM senses the other GM would rather saw off his own arm than miss one particular player that the price will be the moon.

Your point from your list about the need is the key for the Texans here. Since we got the same player at #19 as we would have taken at #13, we lost nothing and gained a 3rd round pick. It's a something-for-nothing deal, which is always worth doing if you don't have a bigger something-for-nothing deal ready.
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Old 03-10-2005   #14
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I gues My Mock 3.0 but I don't want to start a new thread.

1.San Francisco 49'ers: Aaron Rodgers, QB, California
-Always smart to rebuild around a franchise QB

2. Miami Dolphins: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
-Brown has emerged as the best of the trio, he will take pressure off of Freely

3. Cleveland Browns: Derrick Johnson, LB, Texas
-After getting Dilfer, Crennel moves to the 3-4 and picks up the best linebacker in the draft

4. Chicago Bears: Mike Williams, WR, USC
-Better hands and toughness than Edwards, fits into the Bears/Lovie Smith mold of player

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn
-Worst kept secret in NFL (kind of like the Cardinals pick of Fitzgerald fits a need and coach likes player)

6. Tennessee Titans: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State
- Need WR & CB but biggest need is OL which has always been a strength and priority for a Fisher team

7. Minnesota: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
- After the departure of Moss they need a playmaker to stretch the field.

8. Arizona Cardinals: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
-With Emmitt retiring they pick up a franchise back in Ced Benson. Will take pressure off of McCown and Co.

9. Washington Redskins: Pac-Man Jones, CB, West Virgina
-Losing Bailey and Smoot makes this pick a no-brainer

10. Detroit Lions: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
-After drafting offense they need to go defense, Rolle is physical enough to make the move to safety if needed

11. Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merriman, OLB-DE, Maryland
- Switching to a 3-4 they need a big outside pass rusher and Merriman is the best there is.

12. San Diego Chargers: Marcus Spears, DE, L.S.U.
-Switching to a 3-4 they need DE likes Spears who will gives them a double threat at that position

13. St. Louis: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma
-Turley is gone and maybe Pace so a OT is a must

14. Carolina Panthers: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin
-They need an OT but Barnes would be a reach here so they go for the #1 rated pass rushing DE

15. Kansas City Chiefs: Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
Any defensive player would be a good pick here, and Rogers is still a very talented corner

16. New Orleans Saints: Channing Crowder, ILB, Florida
-Saints have one of the worst run defenses in the league and can use a playmaker at LB

17. Cincinnati Bengals: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida St
- Run defense was horrible for the Bengeals and an upgrade up the middle is necessary

18. Minnesota Vikings: Thomas Davis, S, Georgia
-Chavous and Russell slipped a bit and an upgrade isnít out of the question with such a bad pass defense

19. Houston: Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina
-Carr and Johnson could use another playmaker plus they pick up an extra draft pick

20. Dallas Cowboys (f/BUF): Brodney Pool, S, Oklahoma
-Would allow Williams to move back to his natural position of SS

21. Jacksonville Jaguars: Justin Tuck, DE, Notre Dame
-The DE position was a disaster last year and Tuck could give a boost to the pass rush

22. Baltimore Ravens: Roddy White, WR, UAB
-Even with the signing of Mason they could use another younger wideout like White

23. Seattle Seahawks: Kevin Burnett, OLB, Tennessee.
-Extremely athletic and could give the Seahawks D a boost, especially in their LB corp

24. Green Bay Packers: Alex Smith, QB, Utah
-Packer nation is ecstatic that the draftís #2 QB falls this far.

25. Denver Broncos: Shaun Cody, DT, USC
-Even after getting Warren, Denver still needs to improve there defensive line

26. New York Jets: Heath Miller, TE, Virginia
-A QB like Pennington needs big pass catching TE to check down to, look at what Gates did for Brees

27. Atlanta Falcons: Mark Clayton
-Vick needs another weapon downfield and Peerless needs attention taken off of him

28. San Diego Chargers: Anttaj Hawthorne, DT, Wisconsin
-Switching to a 3-4 they need big men that can rush the passer and stop the run

29. Indianapolis Colts: Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
-They need bigger more physical corners because their pass defense is horrendous

30. Pittsburgh Steelers: Marlin Jackson, CB, Michigan
-Their defensive backfield has improved with a resurgent pass rush and the addition of Troy but still lack a top CB

31. Philadelphia Eagles: Jerome Mathis, WR, Hampton
-After TO there really isnít another WR, Mathis has been climbing the draft after running a 4.31

32. New England Patriots: Khalif Barnes, OL, Washington
-Patriots lost Woody last year and Andruzzi this year to FA, get a big athletic OL that can play G or T

Houston:

RD 1. (19) Troy Williamson-WR
-from South Carolina like Dunta and Owner Bob McNair
RD 2. (47) Darryl Blackstock
- Mike London the new DL coach coached him a Virginia where he played 3-4
RD 2. (50) Luis Castillo-DT
-Will move to a 3-4 DE, has a non-stop motor, former wrestler, big, strong and fast
RD 2. (53) Chris Spencer-C
-Top rated C in the draft is, smart, versatile and athletic enough to fit in a zone blocking scheme
RD 3. (74) Marcus Lawrence-ILB
-Depth inside, has pass rush ability and can drop into coverage. (from South Carolina so McNair is pleased)
RD 4. (109) Brandon Jacobs-RB
-The physical bruiser to compliment DD that Caper values (hoping that 4th rd magic works again)
RD 5. (141) Anthony Bryant-NT
-Big nose tackle for depth
RD 6. (173) Anthony Curtis-TE
-Another project TE, this time he can block and is working on catching
RD 7. (205) Antwaun Rogers-CB
-Canít have too many CB with Peyton, McNair, and Leftwich, especially if they are 6í2Ē and run 4.39

Trade #1 Send #13 to St. Louis for their #19 and #50
Trade #3 Send LB Jamie Sharper to Bengals for 3rd rd (#83)
Trade #3 Send #78 & #83 to Jacksonville for their #53
Trade #4 Send LB Jay Foreman to Saints for SS Tebucky Jones
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Old 03-10-2005   #15
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QB: David Carr--Tony Bank--BJ Symons
TB: Domanick Davis--Tony Hollings-- Brandon Jacobs
FB: Moran Norris--Jarrod Baxter
WR: Andre Johnson--Jabar Gaffney--Kendrick Sterling
WR: Troy Williamson--Derrick Armstrong--Sloan Thomas
TE: Mark Bruener--Billy Miller--Bennie Joppru
LT: Seth Wand-- Chester Pitts
LG: Chester Pitts--Milford Brown
C: Steve McKinney--Chris Spencer
RG: Zach Weigert--Fred Weary
RT: Todd Wade--Garrick Jones

DE: Robaire Smith--Luis Castillo--Corey Sears
NT: Seth Payne--Anthony Bryant
DE: Gary Walker--Junior Ioane
ROLB: Darryl Black--Antwan Peek--DD Acholonu
BUC: Kailee Wong--Marcus Lawrence--Shantee Orr
MIKE: Morlon Green--Troy Evans
LOLB: Jason Babin--Charlie Anderson
RCB: Dunta Robinson--Demarcus Faggins
SS: Tebucky Jones--Glen Earl--Ramon Walker
FS: Marcus Coleman--Jammal Lord
LCB: Aaron Glenn--Lewis Sanders--Dennis Weathersby
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