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Old 06-11-2005   #181
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Go, Rags, go. Become awesome! Prove me--errrrr, I mean, the doubters--wrong about you!!!


By the way, lol@"Hamburg Sea Devils." Why not Hamburg Lars?
Just thought I'd call myself out on my quote from back in March. Yes, I was a doubter and a Ragone-basher. He did almost everything he could over there to prove me wrong and I congratulate him. He still has a lot to prove at the NFL level, but I no longer think he was a bust as a draft pick. Nice season, Other Dave. I'm very happy to have been wrong about that!


Final note: ominous, ominous post #5 by Grid in this thread. I burst out laughing when I read that one again just now.

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Old 06-11-2005   #182
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god forbid he becomes the NFLE MVP. I can just see the "Bench Carr and put in Ragone!" threads now.

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Old 06-11-2005   #183
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what a awesome worldbowl, nice comeback from berlin, ragone is a leader on the field. lets see in at camp how he will do with the big boys.
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Old 06-11-2005   #184
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Just thought I'd call myself out on my quote from back in March. Yes, I was a doubter and a Ragone-basher. He did almost everything he could over there to prove me wrong and I congratulate him. He still has a lot to prove at the NFL level, but I no longer think he was a bust as a draft pick.
I've never understood people who bash picks before they develop. Nobody expected Ragone to step in and set the world on fire but he was called a loser and a bust by many of you guys for years. Now you all want to ride his success (limited as it is). Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
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Old 06-11-2005   #185
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I've never understood people who bash picks before they develop. Nobody expected Ragone to step in and set the world on fire but he was called a loser and a bust by many of you guys for years. Now you all want to ride his success (limited as it is). Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
I'd agree with you on that one

my critque is not on Ragone but how he compliments Carr as his back-up. I just don't understand that a big lefty with counter clockwise spin on the ball is the right fit with a smaller, quicker righty with tight clockwise spin on the ball. as a receiver its very difficult to adjust to the spin. Ragone seems more like a pocket passer (reminds me of Rothelisberger) Carr moves outside the pocket more like Plummer.
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Old 06-11-2005   #186
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I'm not calling their talent the same but that was the exact situation that Joe Montanna had with Steve Young. Their team ended up OK. I don't get the spin logic argument. I see it over and over and don't know why in the heck it matters. As long as the ball isn't coming end over end it really isn't a problem.
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Old 06-11-2005   #187
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have you every played football and caught passes from both? it is a little different. not drastic, but definitely a change when you see it.
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Old 06-11-2005   #188
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I'm old but we had footballs back when I was a kid.
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Old 06-11-2005   #189
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With Ragone's performance & desire to be a starter in the NFL, I'm going to assume that he'll be traded at some point. So, the question I have to ask is, will he get us a #1 draft pick, or a 2nd rounder/other considerations? With the quality 1st round talent this year, an extra 1st round pick could net us 2 solid starters. How'd you like to have the chance of coming out of this next draft with a future All-Pro LT & a future All-Pro NT, or possibly a Franchise RB? It's going to be interesting.
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Old 06-11-2005   #190
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
The lesson is in acknowledging that someone's earned a break from the criticism, even if you've been one of the critics--kinda like last summer, when you acknowledged that you'd been too tough on a young developing QB named David Carr and wanted to give him a "fresh start."

It's not so bad to say you're going to ease up on someone--right?
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Old 06-11-2005   #191
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Didn't say it was bad to 'get right', but every year we seem to knock someone who is developing for no real reason other than to complain. This last off-season it has been Wand.

I never considerd Carr a bust if thats what you are getting at. I just critiqued his play and most of you guys just got defensive when someone was objectively breaking down his weaknesses.
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Old 06-11-2005   #192
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No, I was just making a comment on the specific post--no implication of previous "bust" claims intended. (In fact, I'm a little surprised that when you look at the outright assaults on Palmer and Capers we sometimes see here, that there aren't more Carr-is-a-bust threads.)

I guess I can't agree that this offseason's critiques of guys like Seth Wand were/are just for complaining's sake. I can't speak for others, but if I see a problem area and I don't see management or coaches trying to address it, I'm going to comment on it. And I think that's a fair thing to do, as long as the critique is balanced and not just a rant. I definitely disagree with anyone who says that legitimately critiquing an underperforming player or a questionable team move is "complaining" or "whining."

To use the Wand example, I think he's a weakness--BUT, the Texans have, in my opinion, tried to solve the serious LT problem this offseason, and also have avoided jumping off some bad free-agent cliff to fix the situation in a way that would've created other problems. So hey, if Wand's the best we can do, and they seriously tried to find a better answer, it's all I can ask for.

And to bring that back to Ragone, the guy wasn't ready to play in the NFL and I thought he failed to show any improvement at all in the last offseason. The Texans sent him to the developmental league to get the kind of reps he never would've gotten elsewhere. And it worked well! I think he'll contend for the #2 job now. So props to him and to the Texans for the NFLE experiment. That was another example of the team seeing a problem and doing something about it.
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Old 06-11-2005   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Didn't say it was bad to 'get right', but every year we seem to knock someone who is developing for no real reason other than to complain. This last off-season it has been Wand.

I never considerd Carr a bust if thats what you are getting at. I just critiqued his play and most of you guys just got defensive when someone was objectively breaking down his weaknesses.
Well, I still critique Carr and probably always will while he is an NFL QB. I think Carr has the potential to be a Hall of Fame Caliber QB, but like I said during the season, he doesn't make the best decisions all the time, but then a again who does.

I also think that Wand is going to be a pretty good LT for us. He just needs more experience.

As far as Ragone goes, I've been arguing with my dad for the past two seasons and this offseason, that Ragone is better than what he and everyone else was giving him credit for. Ragone's season over in Europe has gone a long way to vindicate my belief in Ragone to my dad and others. Now I'm not saying that Ragone is better than Carr, but I have believed that he was a good draft pick ever since we picked him and that he will make a decent starter for some team in the future.
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Old 06-11-2005   #194
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I don't get the spin logic argument. I see it over and over and don't know why in the heck it matters. As long as the ball isn't coming end over end it really isn't a problem.
Ball rotation is a legitimate physical factor along with velocity & pitch that directly affects its catchability. But if you think its a non-factor then it makes a little more sense Casserly thought the same thing since he drafted him. Or could Ragone be in fact trade fodder?
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Old 06-11-2005   #195
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm old but we had footballs back when I was a kid.
Now I wouldn't quite call them footballs. They were basically stones shaped like a football. How bout those cave women cheerleaders?
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Old 06-12-2005   #196
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Now I wouldn't quite call them footballs. They were basically stones shaped like a football. How bout those cave women cheerleaders?
Remember, he's half Japanese so they probably used coconuts. (I'll be honest, I don't even know if Japan has coconuts on it)

Anyone else see the video shot of those NFL Europe cheerleaders? It took me awhile just to find one that didn't hurt my eyes.
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