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Old 03-06-2005   #21
rhc564
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Default San Diego

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The thrust of the problem was that we had 3 of the 5 players at new positions and changed the blocking schemes. We had a project at Tackle and a guy who has never played Guard in his life starting right next to him with an underaverage Center on the other side. Weigert and Wade having injury problems didn't help matters any either.
...they had a bunch of new players on their line, too, even rookies--
their QB was almost player of the year and went to the pro bowl along
with a tight end who played basketball in college, not football-- what's
their secret?
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Old 03-06-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
I dont think the o-line learning a new zone blocking system has anything to do with pass blocking.
...several posters have pointed this out but the message is not getting
thru--one poster suggested they couldn't pass block because of all the
other distractions around them (i.e. new posisitions,blocking schemes)--
yea, thats gotta be it--so. this year will be different...
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Old 03-06-2005   #23
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I'm just backing out of this debate. I'm just going to end up hammering away. Nothing good is going to come of that.
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Old 03-06-2005   #24
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The season ended on a sour note (very sour), with the embarrasing loss
here at home to Cleveland and the last thing the owner said after that game
was that they were going to get DC some "better protection" because he would be the QB here for a long time. But it looks like that "better protection"
will be limited to upgrading McKinney and or/Weigert. Little surprised they didn't do something in FA in this area, but they seem to think the rest of the OL will improve enough thru last years experience.
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Old 03-06-2005   #25
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the problem with the line is the middle..Sure the tackles are going to get beat at some point....but at times when they get beat ,Carr should be able to step up in to the pocket and gain a second or two..That doesn't happen..because McKinney is getting pushed around.(or should I say back)


And to say the Texans did nothing.. is farfetched
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Old 03-06-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhc564
...they had a bunch of new players on their line, too, even rookies--
their QB was almost player of the year and went to the pro bowl along
with a tight end who played basketball in college, not football-- what's
their secret?
year before they were wanting ot kick their QB out .. we had a Basketball player for a TE and it didn't work out.

they are the flipside of us.
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Old 03-06-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottoddie
Okay, for those that feel we should draft an O-Lineman with our 1st pick, name one in this year's draft that is worth the #13 pick...
Good post; thanks for the research.

There are some who are dissatisfied with LT and suggest this position could be addressed at #13. But those of us who believe the Texans' primary needs on the OL are Center and Right Guard do not suggest taking a player at #13. No one grades out that highly. What we do advocate is trading down, somewhere in the 20 range, perhaps slightly lower, and drafting David Baas. He has had an excellant Sr Bowl and Combine and seems to have moved ahead of Elton Brown for the number one ranking for OG's. For those who rank him at OC, he has the highest ranking at that position also. With your research, do you know of any player who has ranked that high at two different positions. In most of those past 23 drafts you sited, perhaps he would not have carried these top spot rankings, but would have still carried a solid ranking placing him towards the bottom of the first or top of the second. This is a player who likely is not HOF caliber, but is a Pro Bowl caliber talent. It would not be a reach to select him towards the bottom of the first.
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Old 03-06-2005   #28
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one thing about mess with the "D" .. it needs to be messed with.Talenwise it was head and shoulders about the Offense..and me personally have been disappointed with the d after the initial season.. I felt bad for the defense then,because they shouldered the load.. Last season I was expecting more from them ...even with the injuries that we had. About Messing with the D and why it needs to be messed with.. When have our starters on the defensive side been "pushed" and had to fight for a starting job? Only position battle I can recall is Earl beating out Brown. .. DL has had the same starters.. Smith was signed and he immediately became a starter.. LB.. babins pretty much became instant starter.. CB..Daunte was immediate starter and we pushed Coleman to safety and he became the starter.

I am liking the forman/Sharper (sharper is my favorite on d) trade talk.. it means we are getting depth at positions finally

and now we need OL trade talk !
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Old 03-06-2005   #29
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I think CC wants to draft Defense to have a balance of young talent . An OL does needs to gel to get better so maybe CC thinks they may have some talent . Carr + OL + Coaching = this performance . The best thing for Carr would be BJ Simmons lighting up NFL Europe .
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Old 03-06-2005   #30
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maybe its simply the fact that the Texans are more defensivly inclined hence better drafting & developing the defense than the offense. Is not Cappers known as being a defensive coach? anyway if using the 13th pick could somehow solve the offensive woes don't you think it would be worth it? problem is the current regime does not create a vast sweeping bill of confidence with their offensive game planning or scheme little lone the offensive lines inability to protect a franchise QB.

so in reality the 13th pick would best be spent as a finishing touch to a young, talented & dynamic defense. David Baas will not be available when the Texans 2nd pick comes around & I don't see them trading up like they did last year for Babin (never know for sure) even in the 2nd round they will still choose defense, probably a DL like Luis Castillo. the 3rd round however will be key for the future replacements of McKinney & Weigert. this is where I'd bet money the Texans draft a OG or OC, remember we have two third rd picks. I would be happy if they went defense in the 1st two rounds and selected the best CB & DL then in round 3 went with the best Guard (Chris Kemoeatu OG Utah) & Center (Chris Spencer OC Mississippi).
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Old 03-06-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
the problem with the line is the middle..Sure the tackles are going to get beat at some point....but at times when they get beat ,Carr should be able to step up in to the pocket and gain a second or two..That doesn't happen..because McKinney is getting pushed around.(or should I say back)
And to say the Texans did nothing.. is farfetched
"A" problem was with McKinney and to a lessor extent Weigert, but we can get topline centers & gurads in the 2nd if not 3rd and 4th rounds of the Draft. For some reason many people on this Board are enamored with Bass - he would be a good choice, but if he's not there there's other players we can pick to upgrade McKinney & Weigert. But the key to pass protection is the weak side tackle, and to suggest that Seth Wand wasn't "a" problem in this area on numerous occasions last year is to ignore why pass protection
broke down on many occasions in many games. But unlike McKinney and Weigert, he's just starting out in the NFL, is much younger, and obviously
has a great deal of potential to improve - atleast the management has expressed this view many times. But he needs to play had a higher level
this year or we still have "a" problem on DCs blind side.
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Old 03-06-2005   #32
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Wand and McKinney need to go to Jose Canseco's gymm . In two months they'll look like Tony Mandrich .
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Old 03-06-2005   #33
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I don't know why people keep thinking we are going to fix the problem at center and rg through the draft. Rookie ol need time to develop. It will be just like last year if we throw a rookie in at center. I agree with drafting ol but not in the first round and not to be a full time starter this year. Free agency is the only way we can fix the problem at center immediately. Someone else will have to post what centers are available. I don't think that there is an abundance of them and maybe not even one that would upgrade our line at that position. We may have to sign a guard and make someone learn the center position.
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Old 03-06-2005   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
..For some reason many people on this Board are enamored with Bass - he would be a good choice, but if he's not there there's other players we can pick to upgrade McKinney & Weigert...
Athetically, Baas may be one level below the top level. This is why he should be rated toward the bottom of the first rather than the top. But Baas also has that blue-collar work ethic that makes him as close to a sure thing as you are likely to get, other than an elite talent. The further down the draft board you go, say third round or below, the more the likelyhood the player will be a marginal talent, if not an outright bust. Also this - Baas has the talent to push for a starting spot as a rookie - an instant upgrade over last season. Excepting injury, anyone taken in the third round will be hard pressed to beat out the established veterine and probably won't seriously contend for the starting spot until 2006 at the vary soonest and maybe not until 2007.

Drafting Baas gives us the second best chance of improving our OL this next season (first is simply another training camp for the OL to "come together").
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Old 03-06-2005   #35
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We have used a 2nd and two 3rd picks on the OL . They are still learning . To say that drafting ( you name the player ) is an improvement on the OL is 50/50 at best .
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Old 03-06-2005   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
I don't know why people keep thinking we are going to fix the problem at center and rg through the draft.
It's not that unusual for rookie OL to succeed as starters their first year in the NFL - except for the weak side Tackle. This position is at a > degree of
difficulty than all the other OL positions and therefor it's harder to find a player who has the potential to play the position - and then it takes time for him to get up to speed. Case in point is Jordan Gross, the top OL taken in the
2003 draft(he was like 8 or 9 overall) by Carolina. They didn't throw him into LT right away so he played RT last year as a rookie and played it well. This year they moved him to LT and reportedly is struggling and they are not sure
if he's gonna make at the all important LT slot.
Of course playing QB in the NFL is the most demanding position, but after that
LT and CB are probably the toughest and most demanding positions on the field.
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Old 03-06-2005   #37
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I feel the MAIN reason we are working on D is cause one of the most offensively powered teams in the NFL is in our division. Plus the blue print was laid out on how to win Championships over the last 5 or so years and that is DEFENSE. The Ravens, Pats and Bucs won the super bowl with an average offense but had Great D's.
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Old 03-06-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIGHTYTEX
I feel the MAIN reason we are working on D is cause one of the most offensively powered teams in the NFL is in our division. Plus the blue print was laid out on how to win Championships over the last 5 or so years and that is DEFENSE. The Ravens, Pats and Bucs won the super bowl with an average offense but had Great D's.
The Pats are focused on both sides of the ball and that is why they are
a dynasty---

Total Offense/NFL-- 7th
Scoring Offense/NFL-- 4th

I don't think these results are average!

Total Defense/NFL-- 9th
Scoring Defense/NFL-- 2nd
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Old 03-06-2005   #39
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You have three basic choices for improving the line in 2005 . . . and two of those three are bad.

A) Sign a free agent OL?

Bad choice. The only available free agent OL's that would significantly improve that position on the line for next year, were either franchised by their own teams, or way too overpriced for their particular talent level.

B) Draft an offensive linemen?

Bad choice. Even if you chose Alex Barron, or Jammal Brown with the 13th pick, and even if they were worth going that high, (which they are not) they would be drafted for LT to replace Wand, which is not the weakness on the line. It is the interior linemen (McKinney and Weigart) that were the weak links. But the bottom line is . . . injecting a rookie or rookies into the line, no matter good they are, will NOT improve the line in the short term. Drafting centers or guards in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are developmental picks only, projected to be, at best, backups for depth while learning the ropes.

C) Keep the line the way it is.

While holding your nose, accept the fact that is the only good choice. Wand, Pitts, McKinney, Weigart, and Wade only played together as a unit for only one season while learning a new blocking scheme. If you take away the Cleveland game, the line slowly improved their play as the season went along. But by come out flat against Cleveland in the last game, the OL has left us with impression that we don't see the likelyhood for improvement. But I think that Casserly and Capers have reasoned that, instead of banging their shins, and throwing everything out, they feel that keeping the same unit together and allow them more time to jell as a unit is the best thing to do. Capers himself said on the radio that 'quarterback sacks allowed' was the only statistic on offense that was worse then the year before. so I expect that the pass protection area will be a focus during the camps.

BTW, here's something for Ibar and the rest of the negative nellies to chew on. As controversial as the offensive line was last season . . . bear in mind that Wand, Pitts, McKinney, Weigart, and Wade, for the most part, were able play together, relatively speaking, without any serious injuries last season. That was an aberration. Don't expect that kind of luck to hold.

Last edited by Marcus; 03-06-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 03-06-2005   #40
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Default "C) Keep the line the way it is"

...just don't tell Carr!
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