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Old 03-03-2005   #1
Dime
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Disappointed I am. Maybe I am a gloomy dude, but I see the same people coming back to the Texans without improving certain critical areas. Seth Payne coming back does not impress me sadly. With the amount of injuries, and he aint getting any younger at 30 now, 4 - 5 million a year for him is insaine. He has not been the playmaker of a NT. He aint work that type of cash, and really not for 4 years. This probably is all we will be doing for the most part in FA because the money is almost gone cap wise. We finished last year 7 and 9. If nothing changes except for what we pick up draft wise, I forsee a new year of new excuses and more fire threads. If we dont do something decent this year, I might even start them this year even though I have been trying to give the coach a chance. So far, I am not impressed. (sorry, but I see a year this coming year, where we not only not make the playoffs, but possibly get a worse record, from what i see so far).
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Old 03-03-2005   #2
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Two-gap linemen generally have very long careers. It's hard to compare a 30 year old 2-gap defensive lineman to a 30 year old running back (for instance). To call a 4 year contract for a guy in his prime as "insane"...well, beats me, but call it what you will. As an example guys like Sam Adams, Pat Williams and Keith Traylor are all high quality players deep into their careers. Payne works out at the facility daily so I would think that the Texans are in a pretty good position to make a decison on Payne. It's not like they are bringing him in from another team and have not had the ability to monitor his progress.

That said, the Texans are going to make an announcement of a signing in a few hours.
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Old 03-03-2005   #3
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Vinny, I think calling Payne in his prime is insane.
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Old 03-03-2005   #4
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Why is that? Most 2 gap tackles are in their prime from about 27-32 years old. It is generally accepted that this position takes a few years to develop and there are two gap linemen deep into their 30's each NFL season across the league.
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Old 03-03-2005   #5
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I think resigning Payne was a very astute move. NTs are not supposed to be "play-makers", as someone suggested. They are supposed to be big bodies that can control the offensive linemen while the LBs are allowed to be the playmakers. Payne should be fully recovered this year from both of the leg operations, so I am betting he reverts to his 2002 form, where he regularly collpapsed the pocket, and coincidentally got 5 sacks. Pretty impressive. :woot
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Old 03-03-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Two-gap linemen generally have very long careers. It's hard to compare a 30 year old 2-gap defensive lineman to a 30 year old running back (for instance). To call a 4 year contract for a guy in his prime as "insane"...well, beats me, but call it what you will. As an example guys like Sam Adams, Pat Williams and Keith Traylor are all high quality players deep into their careers. Payne works out at the facility daily so I would think that the Texans are in a pretty good position to make a decison on Payne. It's not like they are bringing him in from another team and have not had the ability to monitor his progress.

That said, the Texans are going to make an announcement of a signing in a few hours.
I dont think Payne in his prime can even complete with Traylor personally, and I feel Payne slightly below Pat and Sam. With the injuries with Payne, this has made his stock really fall and with him getting older, the injuries wont heal as fast/well imo then if we had a 25-27 year old in there. I am not saying Payne is horrible, but he is falling off his game. Aaron Glenn is good, but he too if falling off his game a bit because of his age. Also, Payne in my oponion is falling off his prime with all the injuries. Now he is doing good just trying to stay healthy.
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Old 03-03-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
I dont think Payne in his prime can even complete with Traylor personally, and I feel Payne slightly below Pat and Sam. With the injuries with Payne, this has made his stock really fall and with him getting older, the injuries wont heal as fast/well imo then if we had a 25-27 year old in there. I am not saying Payne is horrible, but he is falling off his game. Aaron Glenn is good, but he too if falling off his game a bit because of his age. Also, Payne in my oponion is falling off his prime with all the injuries. Now he is doing good just trying to stay healthy.
Fair enough, obviously I dissagree...now, name me one team in the NFL that does not have a few aging players starting.
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Old 03-03-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBullTexan
I think resigning Payne was a very astute move. NTs are not supposed to be "play-makers", as someone suggested. They are supposed to be big bodies that can control the offensive linemen while the LBs are allowed to be the playmakers. Payne should be fully recovered this year from both of the leg operations, so I am betting he reverts to his 2002 form, where he regularly collpapsed the pocket, and coincidentally got 5 sacks. Pretty impressive. :woot
Hope your right, thats one bet I would not take. I called Las Vegas to give me numbers on if he reverts back to 2002 form and even Vegas cant compute that many 0's. ( )

Seriously, I hope you are right.
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Old 03-03-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Fair enough, obviously I dissagree...now, name me one team in the NFL that does not have a few aging players starting.
SeaHawks.. , Jags...., Eagles rofl,
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Old 03-03-2005   #10
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Originally Posted by Dime
SeaHawks.. , Jags...., Eagles rofl,
Jags Eagles and Seahawks all have older people

Jags- Dewayne, Jimmy smith,

seahawks- Chad Brown

Eagles- Dawkins, Linebackers.
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Old 03-03-2005   #11
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The eagles obtained J. Trotter last year because he was injured and the Redskins cut him --
Big, Big mistake; Huge

I think we are all tainted by following the Boselli injuring so closely -- Players, even 30 year olds do recover from injuries.

Payne started playing very well (2002 form ) in last half of the season. It just takes a year and a half to recover fully from an ACL.
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Old 03-04-2005   #12
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When we couldn't get Pat Williams, that made Payne a must and pushed his price up. He was a good buy considering what some teams are paying (look at the 49ers payed for a not so go LT).
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Old 03-04-2005   #13
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When we couldn't get Pat Williams, that made Payne a must and pushed his price up. He was a good buy considering what some teams are paying (look at the 49ers payed for a not so go LT).
According to the reports it happened the opposite. Payne was not going to sign and was off to visit the Jets when his agent heard the Texans were about to sign Williams and then Payne agreed to a deal before meeting with the jets.
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Old 03-04-2005   #14
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According to the reports it happened the opposite. Payne was not going to sign and was off to visit the Jets when his agent heard the Texans were about to sign Williams and then Payne agreed to a deal before meeting with the jets.
Good info. I missed it. Where did you see these reports?
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Old 03-04-2005   #15
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Good info. I missed it. Where did you see these reports?
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As Houston moved closer to a deal with Bills defensive tackle Pat Williams to be their nose tackle, current Texans nose tackle Seth Payne got word of potentially losing his job and quickly signed a deal.
That is the way it was originally reported on ESPN. The link for that though goes to a page that is constantly updated so it isn't still there.
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Old 03-04-2005   #16
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The signing of Payne is not bad just a bit to much. He is proven and the chance that he reverts back before injuries is what brought his money up also there are not a lot of 3-4 NTs in the draft this year so we had to overpay. Greenwood is the worst thing we could have done eventhough he cant be worse than Foreman was last year. Man I hope we get DJ in the draft because I have heard alot of talk out of Houston about how much they like David Pollack (another BABIN)
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Old 03-04-2005   #17
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That is who I think the Texans want in the draft. David Pollack. 3-4 olb are going to be harder to find with so many teams going to the 3-4. Even if we overstock at olb we could make a trade in our favor because of the demand.
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Old 03-04-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
According to the reports it happened the opposite. Payne was not going to sign and was off to visit the Jets when his agent heard the Texans were about to sign Williams and then Payne agreed to a deal before meeting with the jets.
I didn't realize that is how it happened. I read the ESPN article on the Greenwood signing and it sounded like it was Texans lost out on Williams and then went after Payne.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2004143

Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN.com
The Texans focused on defense on Wednesday as well. After almost reaching an agreement with former Bills defensive tackle Pat Williams, Houston re-signed nose tackle Seth Payne to a four-year, $16 million contract.
I guess I read too much into it.
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Old 03-04-2005   #19
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Originally Posted by bckey
That is who I think the Texans want in the draft. David Pollack. 3-4 olb are going to be harder to find with so many teams going to the 3-4. Even if we overstock at olb we could make a trade in our favor because of the demand.
I enjoy your posts, and let me say you might be right about Pollack, I mean whats there not to like about the guy he is a pure football player. however if you look at the Patriots (inventors of the 3-4) one of the keys to their success was drafting late round "tweeners" and converting them to 3-4 linebackers, never once did they use a 1st round draft pick on a linebacker. Your correct that demand has increased because of recognition of their technique, but then again if everyone is doing it then its time to try a different approach.

There are a couple positions which need addressed however that if you follow the really big dollars in F/A are the offensive tackles and cornerbacks. a guy like Dunta Robinson on the free agency market is going to command a much higher dollar amount than a Tedy Bruschi or Mike Vrabel. So when you have a chance to select near the top of the draft order, high enough at least to garner the elite skilled positional players from a contract angle they are more desireable.

Therefore to the orginal statement of selecting a OLB (Pollack) with the 13th pick, unless they are already taken (PAC, ROLLE, ROGERS, MILLER) it will be another CB, or a OT (ALEX BARRON, JAMMAL BROWN).
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