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Old 03-04-2005   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoX
At the very least, Greenwood is an upgrade over Foreman who had no sacks, no ints, and only 79 tackles.
And are 29 tackles worth 5 years for 22 mil?? Fact of the matter is, Greenwood's production will more than likely go DOWN with Sharper next to him. The only numbers with the probability of going up are his INTs, because if you watched him with Miami the last couple years, he is not a pass rusher because YES, he was asked to blitz on occasion.
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Old 03-04-2005   #142
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Originally Posted by WildBlackBear32
And are 29 tackles worth 5 years for 22 mil?? Fact of the matter is, Greenwood's production will more than likely go DOWN with Sharper next to him. The only numbers with the probability of going up are his INTs, because if you watched him with Miami the last couple years, he is not a pass rusher because YES, he was asked to blitz on occasion.
I disagree. I think the tackle numbers go up or stay the same (near 100) while Sharpers come down a bit. ILBs in the 3-4 are runstoppers. I am sure Sharper will be happy to have a sure tackler with pursuit speed next to him. Greenwood brings more than 29+ tackles. Don't underestimate his speed and coverage ability. Capers said it as plain as day that Greenwood's attributes will allow the team to further develop the scheme and do things they couldn't do before. Beyond stats, the Texans needed players who would let them unleash the playbook. At the very least, I think this means Sharper (if he stays) will get to blitz more. This signing is about scheme more than it is about stats.

There is a difference between blitzing on occassion and having blitzing duties well schemed into your role. If Payne is healthy and playing up to his ability, a fast ILB is gonna have an easy path to the QB (assuming Peek and Babin are playing well). But we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.

Remember, you always overpay for FAs. Especially young, promising ones. That's just how the NFL works. As long as his contract doesn't destroy the Texans' cap, then no worries.
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Old 03-04-2005   #143
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This issue seems to be blown a bit out of proportion to me.
I can't find it now, but I read on these boards where someone figured Greenwood's 2005 cap hit to be in the (I believe) $2.5 mil range.
If that's the case, it ONLY cost us that much to either have him replace Foreman in the line up, which is a pretty good improvement IMO;

or

Repalce Wong, and have Wong move inside to replace Foreman, which is also an improvement (again IMO).

I don't know (and probably none of you do either) the exact details of the contract, but it seems to me that if he doesn't show the produtivity that management expects, he can be unloaded before the big part of the contract kicks in.

2.5mil for a starting OLB (assumed outside) seems to be a pretty fair deal if you ask me.

This is an improvement to me. Not the free agent splash that many of you had hoped for, but the quality of the D has gone up. The level of improvement is all that remains to be seen.

And as said many times, doesn't risk future negotiations with Lucifer regarding salary cap issues!
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Old 03-04-2005   #144
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Greewood's cap hit is less than a million this year it is a back-ended contract. He is an upgrade over Foreman i just feel we paid a little bit more than what he was worth, but he is cheaper than going after Hartwell.
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Old 03-04-2005   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadahnic
Greewood's cap hit is less than a million this year it is a back-ended contract. He is an upgrade over Foreman i just feel we paid a little bit more than what he was worth, but he is cheaper than going after Hartwell.
I believe that his salary is around $540,000 but figuring in his signing bonus spread out over the length of the contract, it goes to around $2.5mil.

I could very well be mistaken on that, but it is what I have read.
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Old 03-04-2005   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
I believe that his salary is around $540,000 but figuring in his signing bonus spread out over the length of the contract, it goes to around $2.5mil.

I could very well be mistaken on that, but it is what I have read.
Greenwood's prorated bonus is $1.4 mil per year so with the $540k salary this year his cap hit is $1.94 mil.
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Old 03-04-2005   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBlackBear32
Come on...dose of reality time...you got 3-4 people here who get to watch Miami games all the time(myself included), telling you he's not worth it. You got a group of Fins fans on another BB, telling you he's not worth it...
So your version of "reality" is where internet posters' opinions should be more valued than Charley Casserly and Dom Capers' opinions? Don't you think that the Texans have access to coaching tapes of Dolphin games? Did you know that Miami came into Houston last summer for a series of practices and a scrimmage? Maybe the Texans saw something in Greenwood then that indicated he would be a good fit at ILB in the 34?

My version of reality is to give the Texans the benefit of the doubt in player evaluations. They've earned that by bringing in talent like Carr, AJ, Dunta, & Domanick. On the other hand, there are many internet posters around who haven't earned that respect. Yourself included.
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Old 03-04-2005   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Maybe the Texans saw something in Greenwood then that indicated he would be a good fit at ILB in the 34?
And to add on that he would be a good fit at ILB in the 3-4 the Texans want to run because those two numbers don't define the whole defense. The Texans clearly believe his range/speed and coverage ability are valuable to the scheme they want to run next year. Players do shrink or thrive depending on the system they are in.

Ex. Mike Vrabel Pittsburgh 3-4 1st four years--56 total tackles in four year, 7 sacks total and 0 INT's. Then goes to New England 3-4 and in four years has 270 tackles, 22.5 sacks and 5 INT's.

The system and the player work together to create stats.
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Old 03-05-2005   #149
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i heard someone on here say we overpayed greenwood, because he is average. Well maybe the coaches see some Star potential that other didnt see ! I guess we'll find out come this season, it sounds like a deadly LB core we have IMO !
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Old 03-06-2005   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
He is the same size as our starting ILB for the last three years that he will be replacing--Foreman. And the texans didn't pay that kind of money for a situational LB.

FYI from the Texans roster:

Greenwood 238 lbs
Anderson 243 lbs (and 4" taller)
Foreman 240 lbs
Polk 242 lbs
Sharper 240 lbs

FYI from the Ravens roster:
Lewis 245 lbs
Thomas 270 lbs
Suggs 260 lbs
Hartwell 250 lbs
Green 250 lbs

from the Patriots roster:
McGinest 270 lbs
Johnson 250 lbs
Bruschi 247 lbs
Vrabel 261 lbs
Colvin 250 lbs
Banta-Cain 250 lbs
Chatham 250 lbs

According to ESPN.com
The deal includes a $7 million signing bonus and base salaries as follows: $540,000 (for 2005), $2.56 million (2006), $3.4 million (2007), $4 million (2008) and $5 million (2009).

You're right the Texans didn't pay that kind of money for a situational LB for 2006-2009.
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Old 03-06-2005   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginessey
FYI from the Ravens roster:
Lewis 245 lbs
Thomas 270 lbs
Suggs 260 lbs
Hartwell 250 lbs
Green 250 lbs

from the Patriots roster:
McGinest 270 lbs
Johnson 250 lbs
Bruschi 247 lbs
Vrabel 261 lbs
Colvin 250 lbs
Banta-Cain 250 lbs
Chatham 250 lbs
Thomas, Suggs, and Green are OLB's for the Ravens and McGinest, Brabel, Vrabel, Chatham and Colvin are OLB's for the Pats. Greenwood is an ILB for us.
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Old 03-06-2005   #152
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
Thomas, Suggs, and Green are OLB's for the Ravens and McGinest, Brabel, Vrabel, Chatham and Colvin are OLB's for the Pats. Greenwood is an ILB for us.
My point exactly he's too undersized for OLB and he needs to maybe add just a few more pound to hold his own at ILB. Lewis 245/Hartwell 250 and Bruschi 247/Johnson 250 are ILB and have enough size to hold there own against 300lb guards and tackles on every down played. I'm not saying he won't be the answer. I'm just saying don't expect him to immediately start right away and put up Lewis and Bruschi numbers in his first year with us. IMO he's still a work in progress, but not a bad one.
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Old 03-06-2005   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginessey
My point exactly he's too undersized for OLB and he needs to maybe add just a few more pound to hold his own at ILB. Lewis 245/Hartwell 250 and Bruschi 247/Johnson 250 are ILB and have enough size to hold there own against 300lb guards and tackles on every down played. I'm not saying he won't be the answer. I'm just saying don't expect him to immediately start right away and put up Lewis and Bruschi numbers in his first year with us. IMO he's still a work in progress, but not a bad one.
He is not playing OLB, so dont compare his size to OLB. Sharper is only 2 pounds heavier than Greenwood and he has done just fine for us.

If the coaches share your feelings then they will tell Greenwood to add a few pounds. Nothing to worry about.
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Old 03-06-2005   #154
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
He is not playing OLB, so dont compare his size to OLB. Sharper is only 2 pounds heavier than Greenwood and he has done just fine for us.

If the coaches share your feelings then they will tell Greenwood to add a few pounds. Nothing to worry about.
Ok, we'll see, but remember that the 3-4 is whole lot different than the 4-3. LB's, especially ILB's, take on a whole lot more blocks than 4-3 OLB's.
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Old 03-06-2005   #155
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Originally Posted by ginessey
Ok, we'll see, but remember that the 3-4 is whole lot different than the 4-3. LB's, especially ILB's, take on a whole lot more blocks than 4-3 OLB's.
I guess they do, but from what I have inferred by reading articles on Greenwood, he uses his speed to get around blocks rather than take them on.
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Old 03-06-2005   #156
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do ILBs in a 3-4 take on more blocks than OLBs in a 4-3?

I thought that is what the oversized Dline was for.
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Old 03-06-2005   #157
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The dynamics are different. OLB's are converted defensive ends in a 3-4. They have to take on 330 pound Offensive Tackles and 230 pound guys give up 100 pounds or so to them. Inside guys are generally the coverage guys and chase guys in a 3-4. They don't really need to have as much size. All you have to do is look at how Dom Capers used short, undersized Sam Mills in his past defenses to understand how Greenwood is going to be used here.
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Old 03-06-2005   #158
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Originally Posted by Vinny
The dynamics are different. OLB's are converted defensive ends in a 3-4. They have to take on 330 pound Offensive Tackles and 230 pound guys give up 100 pounds or so to them. Inside guys are generally the coverage guys and chase guys in a 3-4. They don't really need to have as much size. All you have to do is look at how Dom Capers used short, undersized Sam Mills in his past defenses to understand how Greenwood is going to be used here.
For those that can't remember that far, notice the difference in aggressiveness of the Texans defense with career back-up Deshaun Polk played the final for or five games. The texans were more comfortable leaving him in coverage situations than foreman and blitzed more.

The Texans have needed more pure speed on defense. If Peek can figure how to play consistently, then the teams goes from a slow LBs corps to one of the faster one in one off-season.
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Old 03-06-2005   #159
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HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS PAGE http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9...lnid=83&pid=27 LOOK AT WHERE GREENWOOD IS LISTED DOES THIS SCARE ANYONE
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Old 03-06-2005   #160
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Nope, scout.com rates players based on name recognition...no actual scouting involved.

ESPN has Greenwood as the #31 FA overall, #5 LB. I'll take their (ESPN) word for it first.
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