2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Speaking generally on the point of this thread. The drafting Brian Cushing of the world as far the exception to the rule. He was a rookie who looked like Romonowski in the peek of his career and was a top 5 SLB in the NFL. This sort of impact is not "normal."

The good new for the Texans, is that couple of position that many think they need are found regularly (not just in the first round either). RB and FS are often contribute early. OG/c don't have to be early picks, but ususally take a year or two. The good news at DT is this is one of the best DT drafts in quite awhile as it has impact at the top and depth available most rounds.

Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

Pick any of the first fourteen games you choose and if you love o-line play it flat out hurts to watch the carnage and slop.

I highly doubt they take another sub 210 pound running back, not early anyway.

It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.

[krocket]

Originally Posted by badboy

Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.

I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by krocket

I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

They've got around 3 weeks to come to an agreement for a new CBA in 2010. Considering the fact that the two sides are still World's apart and are already talking about the possibilities of the 2011 lockout, I'd say the odds of an agreement for 2010 are zip, zero, nada....

[badboy]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.



It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.

Do you have a personal evaluation on Chris Brown? I have him in 6th round. 5'10" 202 4.47. I have only seen bits and pieces on him but he seems to be the real deal.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by krocket

I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

No fight and I apologize if you thought I was attacking you. To add info to the post immediately after yours, the Union president was quoted by the NFL leader as saying the chance of a CBA not being agreed to as a 14 on a scale of 1-10. The 2 sides are too far apart to be resolved in months let alone 3 weeks.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by badboy

Do you have a personal evaluation on Chris Brown? I have him in 6th round. 5'10" 202 4.47. I have only seen bits and pieces on him but he seems to be the real deal.

I was referring to the current much reviled Chris Brown. He is unusually large for a Texans/Denver RB at 6' 3" 235 lbs but I think they made that exception because he ran for Gibbs in college.

I don't know enough about prospect CB to opine.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.

understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.

[JB]

Originally Posted by beerlover

understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).





Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.

I am liking Tate a lot. I think he may be the best overall fit for the Texans due to his excelling in the passing game (blocking as well as receiving) and his downhill running style. He looked real good for the Senior Bowl.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by JB

I am liking Tate a lot. I think he may be the best overall fit for the Texans due to his excelling in the passing game (blocking as well as receiving) and his downhill running style. He looked real good for the Senior Bowl.

Agreed. Auburn produces excellent NFL backs & of all the backs I've seen them produce over the past few years he is not the flashiest, or quickest he is simply the most complete & durable.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB.

I wasn't making a personal comment of preference (although I do tend to like smaller RBs) but a comment on the Texans' philosophy. That's what counts at the end of the day.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by beerlover

understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).





Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.

You think Tate will be a possession type back for us and power the ball in to end zone from 6 or less yards out?

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I wasn't making a personal comment of preference (although I do tend to like smaller RBs) but a comment on the Texans' philosophy. That's what counts at the end of the day.

It is a function of the Texans philosophy. The Texans have not prioitized the RB position via the draft, they've gone the free agent route instead, with unsatisfactory results. They said something like "we targeted Shonn Greene & Glen Coffee but both where off the board by our pick (3rd)". My fear is that history repeats itself.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by badboy

You think Tate will be a possession type back for us and power the ball in to end zone from 6 or less yards out?

not just yes, hell yes

[bah007]

Originally Posted by beerlover

not just yes, hell yes

Agreed.

I've been on Tate's bandwagon just as long (if not longer) than anyone else here. I think he can do all the things we need in a RB.

Would love to see him or Mathews in a Texans uni.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Here are a few potential free agent defensive lineman this year:

Marcus Spears (3-4)
Mark Anderson
Jason Hatcher (3-4)
Elvis Dumervil
Johnny Jolly
Aaron Kampman
Ryan Pickett
Travis Johnson
Jason Fergueson (3-4)
Jarvis Green (3-4)
Richard Seymour (3-4)
Fred Robbins
Derrick Burgess
Casey Hampton (3-4)
Brett Keisel (3-4)
Darryl Tapp
Jevon Kearse
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jason Taylor

There are a few names that might be worth a look on there. I like Johnny Jolly since he is a bit younger than most of the big names on there.

McNair said the Texans aren't doing the FA thing unless they are the 2nd/3rd tier FA guys. WOO HOO

[badboy]

Originally Posted by beerlover

not just yes, hell yes

Ok, but don't make me call you and BAH out next season if I see 3 and two and Tate gets stopped for no gain.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by krocket

I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

McNairs noy going to spend money that it takes to get a pro-bowl quality OG.

He said this in his PC today.

[bah007]

Originally Posted by badboy

Ok, but don't make me call you and BAH out next season if I see 3 and two and Tate gets stopped for no gain.

Haha I just hope Gerhart pans out wherever he ends up so we don't have to put you on suicide watch.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

McNairs noy going to spend money that it takes to get a pro-bowl quality OG.

He said this in his PC today.

No that is not at all what he said. He said he and Kubiak agreed there was significant risk in FAs who have played their best years and teams end up overpaying for a declining player but they were searching for young players like they did with Antonio Smith.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

No that is not at all what he said. He said he and Kubiak agreed there was significant risk in FAs who have played their best years and teams end up overpaying for a declining player but they were searching for young players like they did with Antonio Smith.

Antonio Smith = 2nd tier FA signing

How many pro-bowl level players have the Texans ever signed?

Dont get your hopes up thinking McNair is going to sign a tier 1 FA.

It's not going to happen. IMHO