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Old 01-21-2010   #1
RagingBull
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Default Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

Reading the Broncos forum (since I live in Colorado), and came across an interesting thread where they hope/predict that Kubiak gets fired after next season and comes back to Denver to take over for McD. Interesting to see that the outsiders take on Kubiak's tenure here is about the same as ours.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=161505
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Old 01-21-2010   #2
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

Good stuff, very entertaining to see Denver fan's take on our situation. I saw a lot more positive things about Kubiak than "McD" in that thread.

Countdown to this thread turning into another Fire Kubiak/Keep Kubiak thread in 3.....2......1......
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Old 01-21-2010   #3
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

I kind of like this guy's take on it.

Quote:
Kubiak took over a team that was 2-14 the previous season and never having had a winning season and has gone 6-10, 8-8, 8-8 and 9-7. Stellar? No, but improving? Yes.

McD took over a team that went 8-8 the previous season with a horrid defense and missed the playoffs by one game and went 8-8 with a vastly improved defense and missed the playoffs by two games. Horrendous? No. Improving? No.
I know I was in the Fire Kubiak crowd, but still I think this post makes sense.
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Old 01-21-2010   #4
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

I'm sure people will look at Kubiak's body of work here and would desire him as a HC if he were fired, no problem.
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Old 01-21-2010   #5
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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I kind of like this guy's take on it.



I know I was in the Fire Kubiak crowd, but still I think this post makes sense.
Thorn, more to the point, is that McDaniels fired the DC he hired last year, despite the dramatic improvement on that side of the ball. As long as we talk about Kubiak's humility, patience and generosity being weaknesses, it should be pointed out when those traits can be strengths. If McDaniels had a little humility and patience, Nolan would still be the DC there- and he certainly should be. Watch how bad the Broncos are next year!
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Old 01-21-2010   #6
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Thorn, more to the point, is that McDaniels fired the DC he hired last year, despite the dramatic improvement on that side of the ball. As long as we talk about Kubiak's humility, patience and generosity being weaknesses, it should be pointed out when those traits can be strengths. If McDaniels had a little humility and patience, Nolan would still be the DC there- and he certainly should be. Watch how bad the Broncos are next year!
No matter what us posters here take out of this season, Kubiak is back next year and I wish him the best of luck. I'm hoping he is what some of yall say he is, and he takes us to the playoffs next year.

I still think the home town boy makes good is a great story and a good thing for Houston, if Kubes can pull it off.
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Old 01-21-2010   #7
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

I stopped reading that thread two sentences in. Characterizing the Texans 2010 playoff chances as "unlikely" is incredibly dumb.
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Old 01-21-2010   #8
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
Reading the Broncos forum (since I live in Colorado), and came across an interesting thread where they hope/predict that Kubiak gets fired after next season and comes back to Denver to take over for McD. Interesting to see that the outsiders take on Kubiak's tenure here is about the same as ours.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=161505
Those are Broncos fans that love the guy. When I look across other forums around the web that has fans from all teams, they don't look at Kubiak like that at all. Most fans that I read stuff from thought he was going to be fired and thought he should have been fired.
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Old 01-21-2010   #9
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
I stopped reading that thread two sentences in. Characterizing the Texans 2010 playoff chances as "unlikely" is incredibly dumb.
Why? They haven't gotten there before. As Vinny has said around here, every year is a separate year and there is no rhyme or reason as to what happens from one to the other. The Texans were 9-7 with a good schedule and a healthy Schaub for 16 games. Next year the schedule looks hard and you never know who will get hurt, who will go up or down, etc. So I'm sure that poster is just going on random odds based on records before. He may be wrong but it isn't stupid.

There was some good discussion mixed in there with positive and negative
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Old 01-21-2010   #10
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

The flaw in the discussion is that people are assuming that the owner of the Broncos may fire McDaniels after two seasons. He may not. He may keep him for a third or fourth season. We don't know.
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Old 01-21-2010   #11
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
So I'm sure that poster is just going on random odds based on records before. He may be wrong but it isn't stupid.

There was some good discussion mixed in there with positive and negative
I agree. It's also a possiblity we could go 11-5, and miss the play-offs. I can understand firing Kubiak if we miss the play-offs because we got swept by the Colts again. But if we split the games, & Indy goes 12-4... I don't think that's a good reason to fire Kubiak.

Of course, if we miss the play offs because one of those 4 losses came in the final weeks of the season, again I'm on board with the hatchet job, so don't get me bent (not you frog, but anyone who reads this), thinking my standards are too low.

There are just too many variables involved when getting into the play-offs is concerned.

I don't think it is fair, to make that part of the equation, when considering Kubiak's future. If we are an 11-5 team... dominating on both sides of the ball... it don't make sense to fire Kubiak because of a technicality.
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Old 01-21-2010   #12
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Why? They haven't gotten there before. As Vinny has said around here, every year is a separate year and there is no rhyme or reason as to what happens from one to the other. The Texans were 9-7 with a good schedule and a healthy Schaub for 16 games. Next year the schedule looks hard and you never know who will get hurt, who will go up or down, etc. So I'm sure that poster is just going on random odds based on records before. He may be wrong but it isn't stupid.

There was some good discussion mixed in there with positive and negative
The Texans were 9-7 with a very tough schedule. They had one of the tougher schedules in the league, despite everyone thinking otherwise at the beginning of the season. This team has improved every season and is arguably *very close* to being a perennial playoff contender given the undeniable talent on the team's roster. The team is still quite young and gaining experience with each tough win and heartbreaking loss.

Yes, characterizing a playoff appearance next year as "unlikely" is a very stupid statement because it ignores these facts in favor of the fallacy that says a Texans playoff appearance won't happen because it hasn't happened before. Well, Matt Schaub hadn't started a full sixteen game season, either....but he did this year and he proved the naysayers wrong.

This team was one K(Ch)ris Brown or one Ryan Moats or one Indianapolis Colts week 16 vacation away from the playoffs this year. Yeah, injuries can happen next season...but they also happened this year. The team lost two starters on the OL, a Pro Bowl caliber TE, and the starting running back to injuries. And experienced S Eugene Wilson. Regardless, they were fighting for a playoff spot on the last day of the regular season.

No matter how you slice it, that is a stupid adjective to use when discussing the Houston Texans 2010 playoff campaign.
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Old 01-21-2010   #13
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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The Texans were 9-7 with a very tough schedule. They had one of the tougher schedules in the league, despite everyone thinking otherwise at the beginning of the season. This team has improved every season and is arguably *very close* to being a perennial playoff contender given the undeniable talent on the team's roster. The team is still quite young and gaining experience with each tough win and heartbreaking loss.

Yes, characterizing a playoff appearance next year as "unlikely" is a very stupid statement because it ignores these facts in favor of the fallacy that says a Texans playoff appearance won't happen because it hasn't happened before. Well, Matt Schaub hadn't started a full sixteen game season, either....but he did this year and he proved the naysayers wrong.

This team was one K(Ch)ris Brown or one Ryan Moats or one Indianapolis Colts week 16 vacation away from the playoffs this year. Yeah, injuries can happen next season...but they also happened this year. The team lost two starters on the OL, a Pro Bowl caliber TE, and the starting running back to injuries. And experienced S Eugene Wilson. Regardless, they were fighting for a playoff spot on the last day of the regular season.

No matter how you slice it, that is a stupid adjective to use when discussing the Houston Texans 2010 playoff campaign.
Your reasoning is no more "right" than his..lol. All of the bolded is just as much a guess on your part as it is on his. As I said, the team can be good or bad, there is no rhyme or reason from one season to the next. Schaub making 16 games this year means he didn't get hurt this year. It has nothing to do with proving anything or that it won't happen another year. 8-8, 8-8, 9-7 is improving every year to you, while to others it is being stuck in neutral with more talent. I'm not saying it plays out like he says, I'm just saying that your dream scenario is just as "stupid" to some looking at the records over 3 years than his "stupid" comment. They can be 12-4 or 4-12 and it doesn't take away from the discussion in the thread.
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Old 01-21-2010   #14
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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This team was one K(Ch)ris Brown or one Ryan Moats or one Indianapolis Colts week 16 vacation away from the playoffs this year.
I understand where you are coming from, & I do believe the improvement on this team is night and day, from 2008 to 2009.

But.. this is another area we've got to get better at. It's not like other teams don't miss field goals, and still win.... that second Tenn game is an example there. Bironas missed a field goal as well.

Indy could was 14-0 despite the fact that Manning threw 13 INTs this season.

I used to think this team needs to get better, and get out of it's own way. I've since changed my view, expecting them to be perfect is unrealistic. Instead, they need to get good enough that they can overcome fumbles, INTs, bad calls, and a busted play here and there.

Nobody is perfect...
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Old 01-21-2010   #15
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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The Texans were 9-7 with a very tough schedule. They had one of the tougher schedules in the league, despite everyone thinking otherwise at the beginning of the season. This team has improved every season and is arguably *very close* to being a perennial playoff contender given the undeniable talent on the team's roster. The team is still quite young and gaining experience with each tough win and heartbreaking loss.

Yes, characterizing a playoff appearance next year as "unlikely" is a very stupid statement because it ignores these facts in favor of the fallacy that says a Texans playoff appearance won't happen because it hasn't happened before. Well, Matt Schaub hadn't started a full sixteen game season, either....but he did this year and he proved the naysayers wrong.

This team was one K(Ch)ris Brown or one Ryan Moats or one Indianapolis Colts week 16 vacation away from the playoffs this year. Yeah, injuries can happen next season...but they also happened this year. The team lost two starters on the OL, a Pro Bowl caliber TE, and the starting running back to injuries. And experienced S Eugene Wilson. Regardless, they were fighting for a playoff spot on the last day of the regular season.

No matter how you slice it, that is a stupid adjective to use when discussing the Houston Texans 2010 playoff campaign.

You have got to be kidding me.

A tough schedule? St Louis? San Fran? Oakland? Seattle?

Do you realize our schedule next year? It's going to be BRUTAL.

And, no, I don't think "unlikely" is an incorrect statement to make in regards to us making the playoffs. It's fair. Odds are, we will not.

Gary has had four years from which to build a baseline. Based on that baseline, we're looking at AT LEAST 5 division losses. Then we have the NFC East, which will mean AT LEAST two more (and I'm being generous). Then there's one or two games we always bungle.

So, we're looking at roughly 8 losses next year, based on past performance. Of course, I hope I'm wrong. But, odds are, we will not make the playoffs next year. That's a realistic, fair assessment of this football team.
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Old 01-21-2010   #16
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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They haven't gotten there before. As Vinny has said around here, every year is a separate year and there is no rhyme or reason as to what happens from one to the other.
Nice juxtaposition of two contradictory arguments.
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Old 01-21-2010   #17
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Nice juxtaposition of two contradictory arguments.


I don't find it contradictory if you read the rest of my statements, including my second post to him. His theory is that 8-8, 8-8 and 9-7, if included with talent, offense, etc should automatically mean another step and playoffs, etc. I just stated that so far it hasn't happened (with more talent, etc.) and every year is different in the injury front, schedule front, etc. So he can't just make that jump.

It isn't like I jumped the guy, I just explained that his fantasy scenario is just as unlikely as the other guys no playoff scenario.
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Old 01-21-2010   #18
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post


I don't find it contradictory if you read the rest of my statements, including my second post to him. His theory is that 8-8, 8-8 and 9-7, if included with talent, offense, etc should automatically mean another step and playoffs, etc. I just stated that so far it hasn't happened (with more talent, etc.) and every year is different in the injury front, schedule front, etc. So he can't just make that jump.

It isn't like I jumped the guy, I just explained that his fantasy scenario is just as unlikely as the other guys no playoff scenario.
This I agree with. It's actually the mistake I made going into this year. I put us at 10-6 without even thinking about it.

How did I arrive at 10-6? Via 7th grade logic: I basically said, "Well, we won 8 games last year, and blew two games because of Sage. Sage is gone, and the team has improved, so we should be able to capture those two games."

How juvenile was that? LOL!

Now, when I think about next year, I'm going into it much more realistically and clearly.
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Old 01-21-2010   #19
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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This I agree with. It's actually the mistake I made going into this year. I put us at 10-6 without even thinking about it.

How did I arrive at 10-6? Via 7th grade logic: I basically said, "Well, we won 8 games last year, and blew two games because of Sage. Sage is gone, and the team has improved, so we should be able to capture those two games."

How juvenile was that? LOL!

Now, when I think about next year, I'm going into it much more realistically and clearly.
co-sign

As much as we want to talk about Kris Brown field goals, or Chris Brown
fumbles....

When we needed ONE inch, at the ONE YARDLINE, against a CONTENDING
TEAM, fighting for its life during the MEAT OF THE SCHEDULE, we still
couldn't get it done in Arizona. When we needed ONE stop, at the end
of the game, against the Jags. They were able to hand the ball off
MORE THAN SEVEN CONSECUTIVE TIMES, for THREE 1ST DOWNS. It
was the final game in which the Texans could have taken control
of their own playoff destiny.

The second Indy game, came down to stopping them from getting into
the endzone, and Joseph Addai was able to hop-step himself into the
endzone from 7+ yards out.

This is the type of thing we've experienced from this regime through all
four years, not just last year. Our only chance to win comes when we're
able to avoid short-yardage situations during key moments of any game.
We seem to fail in those situations, against contending teams, at least
80% of the time. Don't know what the real numbers are against contending
teams in short yardage situations, but I do know it's abysmal.

If we expect to make the playoffs, we have to start passing the short-
yardage tests, before calling outside fans "stupid" for realizing we don't
pass the eyeball test in clutch moments against good teams. Stats
don't take you to the playoffs, or having the #1 passing game, the #1
QB, #5 offense, top 15 defense, #1 3-and-out defense, would mean
"CHAMPIONSHIP!" as Marshawn Lynch would say.
__________________
With the first pick of the 2014 NFL Draft, The Houston Texans select Teddy Bridgewater, Quarterback; Louisville.
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Old 01-21-2010   #20
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Default Re: Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
The Texans were 9-7 with a very tough schedule.
Tough schedule?? Huh! We played what is arguably the easiest division in football outside of our divisional games. . We had a very easy schedule this season. This year was set up about as easy as it has been in years for us to have made the playoffs.
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