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Old 01-20-2010   #1
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Default Pass Rush

Correct me if I am wrong here, but the lack of a pass rush is still killing this defense. Mario making a pro bowl is great and all, but he simply doesn't put pressure on the opposing team's offensive line like a pure pass rusher can do. I had high hopes for Barwin, but he's still learning the ropes.

I realize the defense improved by leaps and bounds this year, but man that lack of a pass rush was a killer often times.

I'd like some better corners and a run stuffing defensive tackle as much as anyone else, but I think a ferocious edge rusher would do more good than anything else for this team.
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Old 01-20-2010   #2
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by houstonlibraria View Post
Correct me if I am wrong here, but the lack of a pass rush is still killing this defense. Mario making a pro bowl is great and all, but he simply doesn't put pressure on the opposing team's offensive line like a pure pass rusher can do. I had high hopes for Barwin, but he's still learning the ropes.

I realize the defense improved by leaps and bounds this year, but man that lack of a pass rush was a killer often times.

I'd like some better corners and a run stuffing defensive tackle as much as anyone else, but I think a ferocious edge rusher would do more good than anything else for this team.
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Old 01-20-2010   #3
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Default Re: Pass Rush

Rush the edge and then what, over pursue? That's what Mario's doing right now because we don't have pressure up the middle.
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Old 01-20-2010   #4
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Default Re: Pass Rush

The landscape of this draft may provide some elite pass rushing ends when the Texans pick comes up in the 1st round... could be very hard to pass on some of the talent coming out this year as far as defensive ends
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Old 01-20-2010   #5
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Rush the edge and then what, over pursue? That's what Mario's doing right now because we don't have pressure up the middle.
I agree with this completely.

Our DEs are not even close to the problem. The problem is that when the opposing QB feels any sort of pressure coming from the edges, its no problem because he has acres of space in front of him. He can easily step up and have time to make a pass or run. A disruptive DT/NT to play alongside Okoye will go a very long way for helping this team's defense.
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Old 01-20-2010   #6
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
The landscape of this draft may provide some elite pass rushing ends when the Texans pick comes up in the 1st round... could be very hard to pass on some of the talent coming out this year as far as defensive ends
The only way I would support this is if we move Antonio Smith inside, but who knows if that's the best use of his ability.

Getting another DT is the solution. The fact that we've had two busts at that position is a ridiculously ignorant reason for not addressing it.
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Old 01-20-2010   #7
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
The only way I would support this is if we move Antonio Smith inside, but who knows if that's the best use of his ability.

Getting another DT is the solution. The fact that we've had two busts at that position is a ridiculously ignorant reason for not addressing it.
Yeah I don't think Smithiak would ignore it because of Okoye or TJ, the only reason I'd seem them not taking a 1st round DT would be if there's none there worth taking, which is the likely scenario. I would like Price or Dan Williams to be there but who knows how their stocks will fair over the next few months, I think they're only going to increase in demand. There's a plethora of projected 1st round DE's though and there will be atleast a couple of good ones at 19/20 wherever we pick. We could always trade up or trade back but who knows whats gonna happen, its only January.
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Old 01-20-2010   #8
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Yeah I don't think Smithiak would ignore it because of Okoye or TJ, the only reason I'd seem them not taking a 1st round DT would be if there's none there worth taking, which is the likely scenario. I would like Price or Dan Williams to be there but who knows how their stocks will fair over the next few months, I think they're only going to increase in demand. There's a plethora of projected 1st round DE's though and there will be atleast a couple of good ones at 19/20 wherever we pick. We could always trade up or trade back but who knows whats gonna happen, its only January.
The more DE's in the draft, the better. Guys we don't need can fill picks between 1 and 19 while we wait for the player we want.

I would still support trading up for Gerald McCoy if it's a realistic scenario.

And if the DT we want in round 1 isn't there, I'd be thrilled taking Earl Thomas.
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Old 01-21-2010   #9
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
The more DE's in the draft, the better. Guys we don't need can fill picks between 1 and 19 while we wait for the player we want.

I would still support trading up for Gerald McCoy if it's a realistic scenario.

And if the DT we want in round 1 isn't there, I'd be thrilled taking Earl Thomas.
McCoy would be great but we'd have to trade up pretty high, probably top 5. Nobody wants to pay top 5 rookie money either and I don't imagine the Texans would want to do that. Earl Thomas would be awesome but I can't see him getting past the Steelers who have a big need at safety. His value is only going to increase. Mays could be there but I keep hearing negative things about him which is why his stock is slipping. Its looking more and more like DE or reach for a CB/DT you like. Or go completely off the map and take the best player available like a Dez Bryant. The good thing is this draft is loaded and I don't think it makes sense to reach on anybody when you can fill needs later in the draft.
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Old 01-21-2010   #10
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Default Re: Pass Rush

Why cant you draft a DE and make him a tackle. These kids are young and teachable. If we got one hard ass Rusher up the middle Mario would be the king of sacks. He already improved with pressure from the other side, Now we need someone who is twice as big as Demeco With the Brian Attitude. Put him up the middle and it is "Texans We are Bullish on the front line", for years to come.


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Old 01-21-2010   #11
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Getting another DT is the solution. The fact that we've had two busts at that position is a ridiculously ignorant reason for not addressing it.
Thank you! I have never understood the logic with this "spread the wealth" thing if the previous picks for the original positions busted out. Drafts are crapshoots. Some are going to be misses, others are going to hit.

I don't care how much of the salary cap is tied up on the DL, the fact still remains that there is a need for a DT who can ragdoll the interior O-line, like Haloti Ngata or Kris Jenkins.

I know it would never happen, but if we trade our entire draft for Ndamukong Suh, I wouldn't complain.
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Old 01-21-2010   #12
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Default Re: Pass Rush

Maybe instead of taking a first round DT every 3rd year they should take a 3rd or 4th round DT every year until they get two that works? Save the 1st round pick for a less bust-prone position.
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Old 01-21-2010   #13
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Default Re: Pass Rush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
The only way I would support this is if we move Antonio Smith inside, but who knows if that's the best use of his ability.

Getting another DT is the solution. The fact that we've had two busts at that position is a ridiculously ignorant reason for not addressing it.
Personally, I'm tired of trying to get this done through the draft, its time to bring in a proven free agent. I just don't know if its a prudent move given the current market for DT.
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Old 01-21-2010   #14
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by RagingBull View Post
Maybe instead of taking a first round DT every 3rd year they should take a 3rd or 4th round DT every year until they get two that works? Save the 1st round pick for a less bust-prone position.
I've heard scouts suggest this approach with QBs too, figure if you take one in the mid to late rounds every year you'll hit on one every 4 years or so....and even if you have a franchise QB you can spin em off for more picks later... Green Bay comes to mind as a team that has subscribed to this (Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck)
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Old 01-21-2010   #15
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Default Re: Pass Rush

If they're going for line help with the 1st round pick I hope it's OL and not DL.
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Old 01-21-2010   #16
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
The only way I would support this is if we move Antonio Smith inside, but who knows if that's the best use of his ability.

Getting another DT is the solution. The fact that we've had two busts at that position is a ridiculously ignorant reason for not addressing it.
I wouldn't say Amobi is a bust. He's not the guy that takes up two blockers, but the guy who capitalizes off of it. He needs someone solid next to him to allow him to shoot through. Bigass DT is a HUGE priority this offseason.
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Old 01-21-2010   #17
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
Rush the edge and then what, over pursue? That's what Mario's doing right now because we don't have pressure up the middle.
Ding ding ding. Need someone to put pressure up the middle. And Okoye isn't getting the job done.

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I wouldn't say Amobi is a bust. He's not the guy that takes up two blockers, but the guy who capitalizes off of it. He needs someone solid next to him to allow him to shoot through. Bigass DT is a HUGE priority this offseason.
He is a bust. he may still be a decent player with more consistency, but he isn't getting the job done.
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Old 01-21-2010   #18
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Personally, I'm tired of trying to get this done through the draft, its time to bring in a proven free agent. I just don't know if its a prudent move given the current market for DT.
Yeah, unfortunately, this season isn't likely going to be the season we'd want to do that. Unless we want a DT that's flicking moth balls out of his butt crack everyday.

As far as the original post is concerned, we had more pressure on the QB this season than any under Kubiaks regime. The front 4 still isn't good enough, but overall, it was better than last year.
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Old 01-21-2010   #19
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Default Re: Pass Rush

Call me crazy but I am one that believes the same excuses that are used for DBs (poor play due to lack of a pass rush) should be used for DEs. I can't tell you how many times I saw us get great pressure this season and be so close to getting the sack only to have the QB dump it off for a completion.

We got a ton better when Pollard came in and Quinn helped but overall, our DBs were some of the worst in the league. Just like the DB will have a harder time if the DEs aren't getting any pressure, I really believe the DEs have a much harder time when the DBs are constantly giving the opposition tons of cushion for the QB to complete the pass before the pass rusher can ever get there.

There is a reason football is a TEAM game.
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Old 01-22-2010   #20
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Default Re: Pass Rush

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Call me crazy but I am one that believes the same excuses that are used for DBs (poor play due to lack of a pass rush) should be used for DEs. I can't tell you how many times I saw us get great pressure this season and be so close to getting the sack only to have the QB dump it off for a completion.

We got a ton better when Pollard came in and Quinn helped but overall, our DBs were some of the worst in the league. Just like the DB will have a harder time if the DEs aren't getting any pressure, I really believe the DEs have a much harder time when the DBs are constantly giving the opposition tons of cushion for the QB to complete the pass before the pass rusher can ever get there.

There is a reason football is a TEAM game.
I agree with this - rep if I could - The other thing tho is that the QB's were often able to step up in the pocket .... an upgrade at the DT spot might just help solve both problems.

But I think this team has bigger issues elsewhere - OG and FS come to mind. If an OG or FS and DT graded equally at the Texans pick I'd have to take the one I felt filled the biggest need - DT is at least third on my list.

If a player grades out significantly higher than any of these at another position - I think its a no brainer to take the higher graded player or trade back to get value for the pick.
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