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Safeties 2010 Draft

b0ng

b0ng

Bad Hombre
OKay, so basically this is the position that I think will get addressed in this year's draft at some point in the first few rounds. We have brought in safeties in the later rounds before and have Eugene Wilson as our best option at FS (if he doesn't retire). I'm hoping the Texans offer Bernard Pollard a great contract and make the SS for the near future.

I would like to discuss who you would love to see the Texans draft at S and I'll try to keep a list with a short bio about each player in the first post.

Eric Berry S, Tennessee: He currently leads all NCAA players in total interceptions, interceptions per game, interception return yards, and interceptions returned for touchdowns. Statistically, Berry is considered to be one of the most dominant defensive backs in NCAA history, often being compared to Ed Reed. - Would require a massive trade-up to get

Earl Thomas S, Texas: Third-year safety who has started 26 games over the last two years ... a finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award (nation's top defensive back) ... a consensus first-team All-America selection - Might be available at our pick but not guaranteed

Taylor Mays S, USC: Mays has started every game and has earned All-American honors and All-Pac 10 honors three times. He ended his junior season as one of the top three finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award given to the nation's best defensive back. - Might be available at our pick but not guaranteed

Chad Jones S, LSU: LSU’s starter at free safety in all 12 games in 2009 ... Serves as LSU’s punt returner when backed up against its own endzone ... Has great hands and rarely mishandles a ball ... Fifth on team in tackles with 66 ... Leads team with three interceptions, including two against Louisiana-Lafayette in Week 3 - I don't know much about him but he was projected by the NFL Advisory whatever that he could be a 1st rounder

Morgan Burnett S, Georgia-Tech: Emerged as an All-American as a sophomore... named second team All-America by Rivals, Sports Illustrated and Sporting News... a second team All-ACC selection... tied for first nationally in interceptions (7)... his seven INTs were the most by a Tech player since 1991 and ties for the fourth-most single-season INTs in GT history... had more interceptions in 2008 than the entire Tech team had in all of 2007 - Don't know the projection

Darrell Stuckey S, Kansas: Career Honors: 2009: Lott Trophy Watch List, All-State Good Works Team Nominee. 2008: All-Big 12 First Team, Big 12 Community of Champions member, Big 12 Defensive Player of the Week vs. Missouri, KU Weight Room Award, KU co-Leadership Award, KU Special Teams Player of the Year. 2007: All-Big 12 Honorable Mention (Coaches), KU Defensive Player of the Week (vs. Toledo and co vs. Oklahoma State). - Not getting a lot of pub, but is listed in top 10's in a lot of lists

Nate Allen S, USF: 2009: Among the most accomplished defensive players in USF history ... Played and started in the final 39 games of his career, beginning with the season opener in 2007 and ending with the International Bowl on Jan. 2, 2010 ... Rated as a first or second round talent by most NFL Draft experts ... Named First Team All-BIG EAST by ESPN.com and Phil Steele ... Named Second Team All-BIG East by the league's coaches - Do not have enough information

More Safeties Here.

Honestly, I hope we can snag Thomas, but the more I read about him the less I think he'll be there.
 
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Add Nate Allen and Reshad Jones to that list. We might not get Allen though since he'll most likely go in the early to mid 2nd round and Jones will most likely be a SS in the NFL.

Berry will be gone by the time we pick.
Thomas would be perfect for us.
Mays, Hell NO, will probably be best as a SS and pass coverage ability will make him a poor FS.
Burnett, will be good as well but he might get moved to SS as well.
 
Thomas is the guy if there but I really liked Chad Jones. He is all over the field and smacks people. Allegedly has the speed to play FS. Other than these two no one else really jumps at me at #20.
 
TexansSeminole said:
You can add Morgan Burnett to that list.
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Meh. Color me unimpressed. Maybe it was a product of the bad defense, but the fanfare to production ratio was not in his favor.

I'm no scout, and I only see what the TV shows me, but I just didn't see the playmaking we need on our team from him this season. He's very Dom Barber-like, to me.
 
nero THE zero said:
Meh. Color me unimpressed. Maybe it was a product of the bad defense, but the fanfare to production ratio was not in his favor.

I'm no scout, and I only see what the TV shows me, but I just didn't see the playmaking we need on our team from him this season. He's very Dom Barber-like, to me.
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I'm a big fan so agree to disagree. The GA Tech D coordinator was fired a couple days ago if that means anything to you.
 
An LSU fan I know thinks Chad Jones should've stayed for one more year, and is not much more than an in-the-box safety right now.
 
I think everyone agrees that Berry will be gone before our pick. We should have either Thomas or Mays drop to us and that should be our pick. Get AJ or Jones to run the card up for us as fast as possible.

Mays slumping this year is the only reason he is even going to be an option for us.
 
Super Mario said:
I think everyone agrees that Berry will be gone before our pick. We should have either Thomas or Mays drop to us and that should be our pick. Get AJ or Jones to run the card up for us as fast as possible.

Mays slumping this year is the only reason he is even going to be an option for us.
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Thomas is a top 15, I believe and convince me why you think Mays will be a free safety in NFL? He has had a very down season.
 
I can put some insight into Nate Allen from USF. He's tall and weighs around 200-lbs, could use some more bulking up. Reminds me of Ken Hamlin a bit. He reacts really well to the ball and has good instincts but needs to be a little bit more physical.

I think Allen would work well with Bernard Pollard delivering the hammer so I wouldn't be upset if we got him the the 2nd round. IMO, the best FS in the draft.
 
badboy said:
Thomas is a top 15, I believe and convince me why you think Mays will be a free safety in NFL? He has had a very down season.
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Not trying to convine anyone of anything. I think he is athletic enough to play either safety position. Hell maybe you are right and he is only able to play strong.

I agree with you that Thomas is better and would be a better fit for us. I guess the combine will give us a better idea of where he will be slotted.
 
Link

Here is a guy making a case for KC to take Mays at #5.

Cracked me up - he says he can run with Andre Johnson and hit like Bernard Pollard.
 
Mr teX said:
No...u guys exagerate. If he had those kinds of Instincts, he wouldn't even be mentioned as a 1st rounder..
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yeah, from everything i've read one of mays' strength is reading and reacting to the qb. in fact that's all he did his sophmore and junior year. so it was kind of natural for him to struggle with man coverage and the other responsibilities he had to take on his senior year. the biggest knocks on mays is that he's a headhunter rather than a ballhawk and he takes bad angles in pursuit.
 
rollinstone18 said:
yeah, from everything i've read one of mays' strength is reading and reacting to the qb. in fact that's all he did his sophmore and junior year. so it was kind of natural for him to struggle with man coverage and the other responsibilities he had to take on his senior year. the biggest knocks on mays is that he's a headhunter rather than a ballhawk and he takes bad angles in pursuit.
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Which will absolutely kill you. It doesn't matter how fast you are if you consistently take bad angles.
 
rollinstone18 said:
yeah, from everything i've read one of mays' strength is reading and reacting to the qb. in fact that's all he did his sophmore and junior year. so it was kind of natural for him to struggle with man coverage and the other responsibilities he had to take on his senior year. the biggest knocks on mays is that he's a headhunter rather than a ballhawk and he takes bad angles in pursuit.
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I really don't like the idea of both of our safeties being the same type of player. I think Pollard brings everything that Mays is projected to bring and I think bringing a player who has more ball/coverage skills would compliment the defense the best.
 
b0ng said:
I really don't like the idea of both of our safeties being the same type of player. I think Pollard brings everything that Mays is projected to bring and I think bringing a player who has more ball/coverage skills would compliment the defense the best.
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Agreed. I'm a fan of Mays and I think he could be great on the right team. But I don't think that team is us.
 
b0ng said:
I really don't like the idea of both of our safeties being the same type of player. I think Pollard brings everything that Mays is projected to bring and I think bringing a player who has more ball/coverage skills would compliment the defense the best.
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But Kubiac does and has drafted accordingly. Could Mays be a part of negotiations with Pollard?
 
badboy said:
But Kubiac does and has drafted accordingly. Could Mays be a part of negotiations with Pollard?
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Where do you get that conclusion? Is Barber, Harrison, and Nolan the same player (Methinks no). Remember, from 2006 - 2008 Richard "All positions should look the same" Smith was in charge of our defense, and I think Kubiak just listens to his DC and position coaches in terms of who to draft for defense.

Also, Kubiak has never drafted a safety before round 5, so I'm not sure he's looking for anything more than backup/depth at safety until now (Which the last part is a total guess, I can only hope that they aren't drafting for safety depth this year).

I think the real question here is what is Frank Bush looking for in a new-blood FS? If the answer is "big hitter small coverage responsibilities" then yeah we should go for the big hitter safeties. Hoping that is not the case though.
 
b0ng said:
I think the real question here is what is Frank Bush looking for in a new-blood FS?
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My perception was Bush went much more to the conventional use of safeties and CBs rather than interchangeable sides. Pollard was up in the box much more and Dunta was flipping sides to stay on the #1.
 
b0ng said:
Where do you get that conclusion? Is Barber, Harrison, and Nolan the same player (Methinks no). Remember, from 2006 - 2008 Richard "All positions should look the same" Smith was in charge of our defense, and I think Kubiak just listens to his DC and position coaches in terms of who to draft for defense.

Also, Kubiak has never drafted a safety before round 5, so I'm not sure he's looking for anything more than backup/depth at safety until now (Which the last part is a total guess, I can only hope that they aren't drafting for safety depth this year).

I think the real question here is what is Frank Bush looking for in a new-blood FS? If the answer is "big hitter small coverage responsibilities" then yeah we should go for the big hitter safeties. Hoping that is not the case though.
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None of the 3 safeties you mentioned are known for skills in coverage. Eugene Wilson is the best coverage FS we have had in years.
 
badboy said:
None of the 3 safeties you mentioned are known for skills in coverage. Eugene Wilson is the best coverage FS we have had in years.
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None of the 3 guys mentioned are known for anything (Outside of Dominique being the cousin of Marion).

This year on defense, I noticed a very very big difference in the way we played our FS than in years past when we just had two safeties in the backfield and it didn't really matter who could cover and who could hit. The SS this year was definitely more responsible for making sure run plays did not get very far and the FS was in coverage helping the CB's a ton more. To me, this points to the defensive philosophy shifting (Hey what do you know, new DC new philosophy) to a more defined role for each safety position.

Besides, Eugene Wilson is a million years old and isn't exactly the best in the biz, I have to imagine after his injuries last year that we are looking for another "guy who can cover".
 
Gibb's first year as Secondary Coach at KC they drafted Bernard Pollard in the 2nd round (2006).

I think all of us are in agreement that Bernard Pollard should be our starting SS. That leaves FS as a possible upgrade. A lot might depend on the progress Eugene Wilson shows. He just signed, last year, a 3 year $11.3MM contract with us ($3.85MM gtd). If he shows early signs of being able to play at a starting calibre, I could see us not addressing FS on Day 1.

On the other hand, maybe we draft Earl Thomas. If Wilson is 100%, maybe he starts untill Gibbs/Bush/Kubiak think Thomas is the undisputed starter and takes over (could be game 1 could be a few games in, who knows).
 
BigBull17 said:
Fixed it. Sadly he is.
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Yeah, I started o say that but figured somewhere in obscurity a guy was lurking that I had forgotten. Man, if we could just draft a FS, OG, Rb, CB and a center we could be establishing a very solid team. What is scary, that it is very possible we could do just that.
 
b0ng said:
None of the 3 guys mentioned are known for anything (Outside of Dominique being the cousin of Marion).

This year on defense, I noticed a very very big difference in the way we played our FS than in years past when we just had two safeties in the backfield and it didn't really matter who could cover and who could hit. The SS this year was definitely more responsible for making sure run plays did not get very far and the FS was in coverage helping the CB's a ton more. To me, this points to the defensive philosophy shifting (Hey what do you know, new DC new philosophy) to a more defined role for each safety position.

Besides, Eugene Wilson is a million years old and isn't exactly the best in the biz, I have to imagine after his injuries last year that we are looking for another "guy who can cover".
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Now that (bolded) is funny right there! I was never a fan of the interchangeable safety philsophy & really like the distinction this last season. It is ok for a corner to come up strong and hit but he darn well better be able to cover also. Pollard really helped the LBs shut down the run. Last draft I was jonesing for Malcom Jenkins and he went to N.O. #14. I hope Earl Thomas goes much sooner if he does not drop to us as I can't stand the tension.
 
badboy said:
Yeah, I started o say that but figured somewhere in obscurity a guy was lurking that I had forgotten. Man, if we could just draft a FS, OG, Rb, CB and a center we could be establishing a very solid team. What is scary, that it is very possible we could do just that.
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I can't think of anybody close. C.C Brown...? Nope. Will Demps...? Nope. Marlon McCree...? Maybe, I guess. Not a great squad of safties to choose from...
 
badboy said:
Yeah, I started o say that but figured somewhere in obscurity a guy was lurking that I had forgotten. Man, if we could just draft a FS, OG, Rb, CB and a center we could be establishing a very solid team. What is scary, that it is very possible we could do just that.
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To me anyway , I think one guard plus Caldwell and then Pitts , Studdard , FA , Myers , and whoever else to play the other guard or center and they'll be much better . Heck , I'd take Iupati but if he's not there , then the Illinois guy in the 3rd , the Alabama guy in the 4th or the Arkansas guy in the 5th .

I would like to see Busing , Barber , and any other 4.7 FS gone . I'd like a faster FS with some ball skills who can hit . I think Berry , Mays , and Thomas are all 1st rounders . I guess Allen is a 2nd rounder and I'm not sure about the rest . To me this is where the rubber meets the road , Iupati or Thomas ?

Then we have RB and that comes down to a 40 time as to how far they rise or fall . I think Ryan Matthews will be the Texans favorite but I can see Ben Tate being their type of guy to . I don't the bigger backs being to their liking unless one shows an explosive burst and is not just big and since Dwyer lined up at FB , he may be great as a TB . Spiller and Best are the big elephant in the room because of guys like CJ , who aren't big but can fly ... do you pass on them .
 
b0ng said:
None of the 3 guys mentioned are known for anything (Outside of Dominique being the cousin of Marion).

This year on defense, I noticed a very very big difference in the way we played our FS than in years past when we just had two safeties in the backfield and it didn't really matter who could cover and who could hit. The SS this year was definitely more responsible for making sure run plays did not get very far and the FS was in coverage helping the CB's a ton more. To me, this points to the defensive philosophy shifting (Hey what do you know, new DC new philosophy) to a more defined role for each safety position.

Besides, Eugene Wilson is a million years old and isn't exactly the best in the biz, I have to imagine after his injuries last year that we are looking for another "guy who can cover".
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Yeah it's really amazing what can happen to a defense once you get a competent coordinator and defensive backs coach.

Wilson's only 29, but you're right in that he's isn't exactly all world and could be replaced. Question becomes is it more pressing then our needs for RB and OL? It's a pretty decent draft for safeties and OL. Really wish they had addressed RB at some point in the draft earlier last year or had given Foster carries sooner so we'd know what we have.

Was Jeremiah Johnson on IR this year? If so what are the chances if he's healthy he could push for snaps as well?
 
Goldensilence said:
Yeah it's really amazing what can happen to a defense once you get a competent coordinator and defensive backs coach.

Wilson's only 29, but you're right in that he's isn't exactly all world and could be replaced. Question becomes is it more pressing then our needs for RB and OL? It's a pretty decent draft for safeties and OL. Really wish they had addressed RB at some point in the draft earlier last year or had given Foster carries sooner so we'd know what we have.

Was Jeremiah Johnson on IR this year? If so what are the chances if he's healthy he could push for snaps as well?
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I think Johnson was a P. squadder but I could be mistaken.

The OL or the FS is the big choice in my mind, and with that, I think that the Texans address S in the first few rounds. They need DB's any way you slice it and after drafting CB's for a few years (Quinn, Molden, Bennett, etc) they might just get that playmaker. This draft seems pretty stacked with S prospects this year, so I'm hoping that guys fall and we can pick up a really good one.

Darrell Stuckey youtube. Talking with KU fans, they think the guy is a baller, and a good playmaker (NEED).

Where's YTF when you need him?
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
To me anyway , I think one guard plus Caldwell and then Pitts , Studdard , FA , Myers , and whoever else to play the other guard or center and they'll be much better . Heck , I'd take Iupati but if he's not there , then the Illinois guy in the 3rd , the Alabama guy in the 4th or the Arkansas guy in the 5th .

I would like to see Busing , Barber , and any other 4.7 FS gone . I'd like a faster FS with some ball skills who can hit . I think Berry , Mays , and Thomas are all 1st rounders . I guess Allen is a 2nd rounder and I'm not sure about the rest . To me this is where the rubber meets the road , Iupati or Thomas ?

Then we have RB and that comes down to a 40 time as to how far they rise or fall . I think Ryan Matthews will be the Texans favorite but I can see Ben Tate being their type of guy to . I don't the bigger backs being to their liking unless one shows an explosive burst and is not just big and since Dwyer lined up at FB , he may be great as a TB . Spiller and Best are the big elephant in the room because of guys like CJ , who aren't big but can fly ... do you pass on them .
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Iupati would be my first round pick as well if I had any say. Pouncey should be there in the second as well as Asamoah.

Other question is do we make a move on Jahari Evans or Logan Mankins? IF so that fills a big void at one guard. Take any of the top guard or center prospects in the first two rounds and you've got solid group that just needs time to play together.

I think Spiller will go in the first because of his added value as a returner. Best is going to be interesting, but unless he has a killer showing at the combine probably falls into the second and possibly third. I like Tate's value later in the draft and being battle tested in the SEC.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
To me anyway , I think one guard plus Caldwell and then Pitts , Studdard , FA , Myers , and whoever else to play the other guard or center and they'll be much better . Heck , I'd take Iupati but if he's not there , then the Illinois guy in the 3rd , the Alabama guy in the 4th or the Arkansas guy in the 5th .

I would like to see Busing , Barber , and any other 4.7 FS gone . I'd like a faster FS with some ball skills who can hit . I think Berry , Mays , and Thomas are all 1st rounders . I guess Allen is a 2nd rounder and I'm not sure about the rest . To me this is where the rubber meets the road , Iupati or Thomas ?

Then we have RB and that comes down to a 40 time as to how far they rise or fall . I think Ryan Matthews will be the Texans favorite but I can see Ben Tate being their type of guy to . I don't the bigger backs being to their liking unless one shows an explosive burst and is not just big and since Dwyer lined up at FB , he may be great as a TB . Spiller and Best are the big elephant in the room because of guys like CJ , who aren't big but can fly ... do you pass on them .
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For me, Thomas stands out above all FS and if there in 1st is my guy. I have Iupati and Asamoah (Illinois) very close and take the latter in 2nd on my board. RB: both Dwyer and Gerhart are big yardage, huge average and college career consistant. I have Gerhart over Dwyer. MY JJ surprise small school pick Joique Bell is now on the watch list and is ranked round 4-5. Dag nab it. Thought I might slip him in round 6. I am afraid he kills at combine.
 
badboy said:
For me, Thomas stands out above all FS and if there in 1st is my guy. I have Iupati and Asamoah (Illinois) very close and take the latter in 2nd on my board. RB: both Dwyer and Gerhart are big yardage, huge average and college career consistant. I have Gerhart over Dwyer. MY JJ surprise small school pick Joique Bell is now on the watch list and is ranked round 4-5. Dag nab it. Thought I might slip him in round 6. I am afraid he kills at combine.
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A lot of people had Rashad Jennings on their radar as a small school pick, he ended up lasting until late 7th.

Unless Bell has speed to kill (If that's the case I'm willing to put money on second round Raiders) I'd expect when it's all said and done he'll likely last until the 6th.
 
b0ng said:
I think Johnson was a P. squadder but I could be mistaken.

The OL or the FS is the big choice in my mind, and with that, I think that the Texans address S in the first few rounds. They need DB's any way you slice it and after drafting CB's for a few years (Quinn, Molden, Bennett, etc) they might just get that playmaker. This draft seems pretty stacked with S prospects this year, so I'm hoping that guys fall and we can pick up a really good one.

Darrell Stuckey youtube. Talking with KU fans, they think the guy is a baller, and a good playmaker (NEED).

Where's YTF when you need him?
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JJ#2 was on injured reserve. At 5'9" 200lbs he is an interesting possibility. if draft were to go my way though, he and Moats are gone.
 
Goldensilence said:
A lot of people had Rashad Jennings on their radar as a small school pick, he ended up lasting until late 7th.

Unless Bell has speed to kill (If that's the case I'm willing to put money on second round Raiders) I'd expect when it's all said and done he'll likely last until the 6th.
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Great comparison and hope this is what happens. I think my current board resolves our issues & the players I want have good chance of being there.
 
badboy said:
For me, Thomas stands out above all FS and if there in 1st is my guy. I have Iupati and Asamoah (Illinois) very close and take the latter in 2nd on my board. RB: both Dwyer and Gerhart are big yardage, huge average and college career consistant. I have Gerhart over Dwyer. MY JJ surprise small school pick Joique Bell is now on the watch list and is ranked round 4-5. Dag nab it. Thought I might slip him in round 6. I am afraid he kills at combine.
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I think Dwyer will emerge as the Johnathon Stewart of this draft . A big guy who can run and is agile for his size . I think he'll go ahead of Gerhart and so might Anthony Dixon .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think Dwyer will emerge as the Johnathon Stewart of this draft . A big guy who can run and is agile for his size . I think he'll go ahead of Gerhart and so might Anthony Dixon .
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I can see his comparison also. I really, really, really hope you are correct on those backs going ahead of Gerhart. Push him back, push him back, push him way back...
 
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