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Old 01-11-2010   #1
TimeKiller
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Default Fixing the OL

Pick up an elite big man, sitting at 19/20 there should still be a highly rated LT on the board. Move Duane Brown into G. I think covering up his pass pro and further enabling his tenacious run blocking/strength/athleticism for pulling across the line will bolster a weak interior. Caldwell rounds into the C they drafted, Brisiel returns from injury, Winston holds his usual RT. ByeBye Chester.

1st LT - Brown - Caldwell - Brisiel - Winston

Butler - Studdard - Myers - White - Butler

Hell, that's basically the starting line this past season. That's excellent, experienced depth. The price is high but I think the outcome should be an OL with decent size (starters in the range of 315 each), good quickness, athleticism and decent interior muscle. With Foster looking to capitalize on recent success, Slaton looking to prove himself again, Moats still grinding out 5 yards where there was 3 I think that's a chance for a damn good line and a hole on offense to be filled.

This is no knock on Brown either. Maybe the answer is move Winston inside. Maybe the answer is draft a bigtime OG. Maybe the answer is getting Myers, Studdard and White the hell off the field.
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Old 01-11-2010   #2
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

There is about a 1% chance that they are moving Brown to draft a rookie LT, who probably will have the same sort of learning curb that Brown did. LG is a much easier position to find a guy in the middle rounds of the draft than LT is even with a first rounder.
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Old 01-11-2010   #3
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
There is about a 1% chance that they are moving Brown to draft a rookie LT, who probably will have the same sort of learning curb that Brown did. LG is a much easier position to find a guy in the middle rounds of the draft than LT is even with a first rounder.
Same learning curve as a guy who played LT for 1 year prior to being drafted? Color me skeptical. I don't think too many of those guys make it to the 1st round (and when they do it's largely considered a reach).

There are plenty of routes to take here. I just don't want to see the day 1 starting OL go Brown - Pitts - Myers - Brisiel - Winston
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Old 01-11-2010   #4
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

I wonder if we'll see Caldwell as our starting LG. Keep Brown, Myers and Winston in place. Draft Iupati or Asamoah and plug him in at RG. Have backups of Butler, Brisiel, White and Studdard.
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Old 01-11-2010   #5
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Same learning curve as a guy who played LT for 1 year prior to being drafted? Color me skeptical. I don't think too many of those guys make it to the 1st round (and when they do it's largely considered a reach).

There are plenty of routes to take here. I just don't want to see the day 1 starting OL go Brown - Pitts - Myers - Brisiel - Winston
and it looks like the Texans got the Brown pick right...wanna take the chance that they do it again?

So your solution is to move the person who played his position as well as if not better than anyone else on the OL @ the hardest position to fill on the OL.
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Old 01-11-2010   #6
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Pick up an elite big man, sitting at 19/20 there should still be a highly rated LT on the board. Move Duane Brown into G. I think covering up his pass pro and further enabling his tenacious run blocking/strength/athleticism for pulling across the line will bolster a weak interior. Caldwell rounds into the C they drafted, Brisiel returns from injury, Winston holds his usual RT. ByeBye Chester.

1st LT - Brown - Caldwell - Brisiel - Winston

Butler - Studdard - Myers - White - Butler

Hell, that's basically the starting line this past season. That's excellent, experienced depth. The price is high but I think the outcome should be an OL with decent size (starters in the range of 315 each), good quickness, athleticism and decent interior muscle. With Foster looking to capitalize on recent success, Slaton looking to prove himself again, Moats still grinding out 5 yards where there was 3 I think that's a chance for a damn good line and a hole on offense to be filled.

This is no knock on Brown either. Maybe the answer is move Winston inside. Maybe the answer is draft a bigtime OG. Maybe the answer is getting Myers, Studdard and White the hell off the field.
I agree with you but the reality, while greater than a paltry 1% depends entirely on who is available. Kubiak hire of Rick Dennison also could assist in this scenero since Denver has selelcted franchise tackle early, see Clady.

My idea of the ideal franchise LT is not Brown, he struggled big time as a rookie (had to split snaps with Salaam) still has problems with both speed on the edge & bull rush. However Duane has improved in run blocking & can anchor in tight space against less than premier ends combined with lack of height, wingspan therefore bubble. In his defense Duane does have good feet, strength & weight to flip inside to LG with excellent pulling ability. I really think this is what the Texans liked about him but honestly this was a pick intended to save Schaub. Duane Brown was a need pick over bpa but if moved to LG would be the 2nd highest rated OG in the 08 draft behind Brandon Albert who is also mistakingly being used @ LT.

It's all about the money & prestige, but Duane Brown is almost a carbon-copy of Charles Pitts, 6-4 320 lbs with better footwork.
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Old 01-11-2010   #7
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

If there was anyone I'd consider sliding in it's Winston.

Really much as I wish they would I'm just not sold on the idea that this staff could put an early priority on the OL this year considering who they continue to keep around.

To me, fixing the line means Studdard, White, Myers and Brisiel don't see any kind of starting nod, if the first two got cut that'd be even better.

Really I'm also surprised that parts of this board are already giving Pitts the Fred Weary treatment.
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Old 01-11-2010   #8
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
If there was anyone I'd consider sliding in it's Winston.

Really much as I wish they would I'm just not sold on the idea that this staff could put an early priority on the OL this year considering who they continue to keep around.

To me, fixing the line means Studdard, White, Myers and Brisiel don't see any kind of starting nod, if the first two got cut that'd be even better.

Really I'm also surprised that parts of this board are already giving Pitts the Fred Weary treatment.
you just have to light a fire under Winston. He is a much better RT than Duane is a LT IMO
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Old 01-11-2010   #9
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
There is about a 1% chance that they are moving Brown to draft a rookie LT, who probably will have the same sort of learning curb that Brown did. LG is a much easier position to find a guy in the middle rounds of the draft than LT is even with a first rounder.
I don't see any way we move Brown. I think he would be better there, but they wont.
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Old 01-11-2010   #10
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
you just have to light a fire under Winston. He is a much better RT than Duane is a LT IMO
Also a shame that Weary was a much better guard than Brisiel.
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Old 01-11-2010   #11
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I agree with you but the reality, while greater than a paltry 1% depends entirely on who is available. Kubiak hire of Rick Dennison also could assist in this scenero since Denver has selelcted franchise tackle early, see Clady.

My idea of the ideal franchise LT is not Brown, he struggled big time as a rookie (had to split snaps with Salaam) still has problems with both speed on the edge & bull rush. However Duane has improved in run blocking & can anchor in tight space against less than premier ends combined with lack of height, wingspan therefore bubble. In his defense Duane does have good feet, strength & weight to flip inside to LG with excellent pulling ability. I really think this is what the Texans liked about him but honestly this was a pick intended to save Schaub. Duane Brown was a need pick over bpa but if moved to LG would be the 2nd highest rated OG in the 08 draft behind Brandon Albert who is also mistakingly being used @ LT.

It's all about the money & prestige, but Duane Brown is almost a carbon-copy of Charles Pitts, 6-4 320 lbs with better footwork.
The main point is that the Texans (as well as the league in general) values an average LT more than they do a good guard.
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Old 01-11-2010   #12
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

our tackles are good. duane struggled a little after getting injured but overall both made big jumps in performance this year imo.

our C is fine. he'll always struggle in short yardage & against NT monsters because of his size but overall is an above average C in league-wide terms

the G's are where the trouble was this year (obviously with the starters injured) but even they started coming on at the end of the year & are all young players so you never know- we may already have our answers at those spots but id still invest in an athletic mid rounder at that spot in case pitts or briesel arent able to come back strong.

no matter who we get or what happens i feel alot better about our depth at those spots after this year
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Old 01-11-2010   #13
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

Hopefully Dennison will breathe a little life into this line. If Kubes is still the one making all the O-line decisions then I think we will see Myers stay on as our center. If we upgrade ours G's then Myers might not look as bad out there.

I'm hoping that Dennison provides a bit of a reality check for Kubes, and Caldwell will be given the chance at center. Draft an OG in the first 2 rounds and let Pitts and Briesel fit it out for the other spot. I would like to see a mid-round pick be used on another OG as well.
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Old 01-11-2010   #14
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
our tackles are good. duane struggled a little after getting injured but overall both made big jumps in performance this year imo.

our C is fine. he'll always struggle in short yardage & against NT monsters because of his size but overall is an above average C in league-wide terms

the G's are where the trouble was this year (obviously with the starters injured) but even they started coming on at the end of the year & are all young players so you never know- we may already have our answers at those spots but id still invest in an athletic mid rounder at that spot in case pitts or briesel arent able to come back strong.

no matter who we get or what happens i feel alot better about our depth at those spots after this year
Considering almost every team in the AFC runs a 3-4, you may want a guy who can kind of move a NT. Myers needs to be a back up.
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Old 01-11-2010   #15
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

This fan base never really appreciated Pitts and once out this line crumbled. Brown just had a scope...he will be the LT next season. No way they move him to Guard and draft a LT.
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Old 01-11-2010   #16
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

I won't believe our OL is fixed, until it happens. Every time a key
lineman went down since 2006, the guy we've replaced him with has
been progressively worse.

Steve Mckinney replaced by Chris Myers:
"Chris is a starter in this league." -- Gary Kubiak

Fred Weary replaced by Mike Brisiel:
"Mike has proven he's a starter in this league. Once in the lineup
he's hard to get out of there." -- Gary Kubiak

Chester Pitts replaced by Kasey Studdard: "Kasey has the fire and
nastiness we need at the position. He's a starter in this league." -- Gary Kubiak

Mike Brisiel replaced by Revolving Door: "We're letting Catfish and Antoine
battle it out to see who's a starter in this league." -- Gary Kubiak

You get my point. This guy wouldn't know good linemen if they bit him
in the ass. We'll just keep throwing guys at the position until one
sticks. Kubes is hoping he gets a couple hits before he's fired.
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Old 01-11-2010   #17
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
The main point is that the Texans (as well as the league in general) values an average LT more than they do a good guard.
exactly which is why teams select quote: "LT's in the first rd". then latter as play sometimes dictate move to more natural position inside

I happen to have the opinion that a Pro-Bowl quality LG is still vital to great overall OL performance, Hutchinson case in point for Vikings signed away from Seattle in the biggest contract ever for an OG. Since then Seattle can't run the ball & line has suffered immeasreably combined with LT Walter Jones impending retirement/injurys.

My point is that if a LT who fits the Texans scheme is available in the first round (Charles Brown, 6-6 300 USC) the combination of Brown & Brown would give the Texans a dynamic duo coveted by all NFL teams. unfortunatley w/Carrol going to Seattle expect Pete to take his guy (Charles Brown) with one of those two 1st rd. picks.
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Old 01-11-2010   #18
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
This fan base never really appreciated Pitts and once out this line crumbled. Brown just had a scope...he will be the LT next season. No way they move him to Guard and draft a LT.
I agree on Pitts and I think he'll be back. It's kind of a win, win for the Texans. We get a quality G back this season without having to give him a raise. Kinda crappy for Pitts, but he's in a similar situation as OD. I think he's going to have to prove it again before he gets paid.
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Old 01-11-2010   #19
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
our tackles are good. duane struggled a little after getting injured but overall both made big jumps in performance this year imo.

our C is fine. he'll always struggle in short yardage & against NT monsters because of his size but overall is an above average C in league-wide terms

the G's are where the trouble was this year (obviously with the starters injured) but even they started coming on at the end of the year & are all young players so you never know- we may already have our answers at those spots but id still invest in an athletic mid rounder at that spot in case pitts or briesel arent able to come back strong.

no matter who we get or what happens i feel alot better about our depth at those spots after this year
Why avoid getting better at Center, because Myers is so likeable? We play
the Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Jets, Ravens, Chargers, Broncos, Redskins, out
of our division next year. I'm not gonna mention our division teams, 'cause
it's not like we're gonna beat them anyway. However, most teams we
face are gonna use Myers as a doorway to Schaub now that such a strategy
is on tape.

Kasey Studdard? A starter?? Brisiel?? Catfish?? Myers?? Starters??
Get ready for not being able to pound it in from 3rd and Goal at the one,
for the third consecutive season.
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Old 01-11-2010   #20
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Default Re: Fixing the OL

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Considering almost every team in the AFC runs a 3-4, you may want a guy who can kind of move a NT. Myers needs to be a back up.
I completly agree with this comment . Myers gets blown up at the line of scrimmage . we need to move caldwell to what he was drafted for ,and draft 1 more OG. Pitts has been the back bone of the OL for years and seriously with him on the line i think he lights a fire under the rest of the OL.Absolutely no reason to give him the weary treatment
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