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Old 12-10-2009   #1
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Default Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

What has he shown you that warrants another year?

What will be different next year?

I'd prefer something empirical. Something measurable.
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Old 12-10-2009   #2
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

And don't bring up Jeff Fisher's coach start/record either!!!! I curious to see what the Kubiak homers have to say.
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Old 12-10-2009   #3
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

What makes the "Fire Kubiak" crowd think that bringing in a new coach is going to mean a more successful team? What is plaguing Kubiak will plague the next coach just as much: Not enough playmakers on Defense, especially the secondary and players failing to make plays. I honestly think Kubiak has the team in a position to win every week, but the players just are not executing as well as they should. A new coach won't guarantee more success and most likely will mean a step backward, at least for a season or two. Are you really to endure/invest 2 more seasons of no playoffs to try someone new that may or may not pan out?
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Old 12-10-2009   #4
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

How about from a non-supporter?

1) He has made marked improvement in the team's roster. I think he has had some big misses in a few people he's picked up and missed some opportunities, but this is a team that is talented enough to win. I credit Kubiak at least as much as Rick Smith in this.

2) His ability to lead and inspire is clear. This was especially true the first three seasons, although I think continued mediocrity in the final accounting each season may be reducing this admittedly unmeasurable quality for this particular team. This is one reason I think he may find more personal success if he moves on to his next opportunity.

3) He has raised the level of play that we see during the good times. That has been counteracted by the fact that the bad play is just as bad as it has always been, and that is with superior talent. However, further improvement may be found in correcting mistakes (his as well as the players). It is probably easier to correct mistakes than build new good stuff. I question whether Kubiak has the flexibility of thought to correct the mistakes though. His sticking with the script on game days is a manifestation of his whole approach to coaching, IMO.

I've ended up mixing some of his good qualities with what counters them, but the good qualities exist. I personally don't think he can reach the next level with the Texans at this time, although he might become a great coach.

I also believe he'll be here for his fifth season.
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Old 12-10-2009   #5
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
What makes the "Fire Kubiak" crowd think that bringing in a new coach is going to mean a more successful team? What is plaguing Kubiak will plague the next coach just as much: Not enough playmakers on Defense, especially the secondary and players failing to make plays. I honestly think Kubiak has the team in a position to win every week, but the players just are not executing as well as they should. A new coach won't guarantee more success and most likely will mean a step backward, at least for a season or two. Are you really to endure/invest 2 more seasons of no playoffs to try someone new that may or may not pan out?
That really wasn't what I was looking for. If you want to argue the other side's logic, then there are a ton of other threads to choose from.

Not to mention you're speaking in hypotheticals. I'm looking for concrete reasons why he should keep his job.
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Old 12-10-2009   #6
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
What makes the "Fire Kubiak" crowd think that bringing in a new coach is going to mean a more successful team? What is plaguing Kubiak will plague the next coach just as much: Not enough playmakers on Defense, especially the secondary and players failing to make plays. I honestly think Kubiak has the team in a position to win every week, but the players just are not executing as well as they should. A new coach won't guarantee more success and most likely will mean a step backward, at least for a season or two. Are you really to endure/invest 2 more seasons of no playoffs to try someone new that may or may not pan out?
You basically missed the point of the thread. Your paragraph had nothing but assumptions. There is no rule that teams take 2 steps backward. In fact many teams move forward as shown in Atlanta, Miami, etc. That is a made up rule that just isn't true anymore. Secondly, players not executing is on the coach. Either they don't have the discipline for it or they aren't taught right in practice. I'll keep brining this up in every thread but the most credible thing I've heard was Bill Maas on the radio the other day. The Chiefs used to be the Texans until Marty S got there. He said the day he got there, they got better because they were disciplined in areas they didn't even realize they needed. I think it is dead on here. If a mistake is made once in awhile, chalk it up to a player. If a mistake is a constant over 3 years, chalk it up to coaching and not being coached up right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
That really wasn't what I was looking for. If you want to argue the other side's logic, then there are a ton of other threads to choose from.

Not to mention you're speaking in hypotheticals. I'm looking for concrete reasons why he should keep his job.
Great minds........
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Old 12-10-2009   #7
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
How about from a non-supporter?

1) He has made marked improvement in the team's roster. I think he has had some big misses in a few people he's picked up and missed some opportunities, but this is a team that is talented enough to win. I credit Kubiak at least as much as Rick Smith in this.

2) His ability to lead and inspire is clear. This was especially true the first three seasons, although I think continued mediocrity in the final accounting each season may be reducing this admittedly unmeasurable quality for this particular team. This is one reason I think he may find more personal success if he moves on to his next opportunity.

3) He has raised the level of play that we see during the good times. That has been counteracted by the fact that the bad play is just as bad as it has always been, and that is with superior talent. However, further improvement may be found in correcting mistakes (his as well as the players). It is probably easier to correct mistakes than build new good stuff. I question whether Kubiak has the flexibility of thought to correct the mistakes though. His sticking with the script on games days is a manifestation of his whole approach to coaching, IMO.

I've ended up mixing some of his good qualities with what counters them, but the good qualities exist. I personally don't think he can reach the next level with the Texans at this time, although he might become a great coach.

I also believe he'll be here for his fifth season.
QFT! I couldn't agree more, Runner. You said it better than I ever could.
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Old 12-10-2009   #8
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
What makes the "Fire Kubiak" crowd think that bringing in a new coach is going to mean a more successful team? What is plaguing Kubiak will plague the next coach just as much: Not enough playmakers on Defense, especially the secondary and players failing to make plays. I honestly think Kubiak has the team in a position to win every week, but the players just are not executing as well as they should. A new coach won't guarantee more success and most likely will mean a step backward, at least for a season or two. Are you really to endure/invest 2 more seasons of no playoffs to try someone new that may or may not pan out?
None of this is an argument for Kubiak as is an argument against change and why he has not completed a task that should be expected in four years: one above .500 and/or playoffs wins.

What is Kubiak specifically doing well?
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Old 12-10-2009   #9
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp
What makes the "Fire Kubiak" crowd think that bringing in a new coach is going to mean a more successful team? What is plaguing Kubiak will plague the next coach just as much: Not enough playmakers on Defense, especially the secondary and players failing to make plays. I honestly think Kubiak has the team in a position to win every week, but the players just are not executing as well as they should. A new coach won't guarantee more success and most likely will mean a step backward, at least for a season or two. Are you really to endure/invest 2 more seasons of no playoffs to try someone new that may or may not pan out?
Is it out of the question to think a new coach, with different strengths and weaknesses, might correct some of the long running problems with this team while building on the foundation Kubiak has put in place?

I would like to see this thread stick to the original topic. Why might Kubiak succeed if he is kept a fifth year? (I already know I'll be disappointed in this).

Can I ask that the "my side is better than your side" rhetoric be put in all the other threads dedicated go that topic? I'll even participate!
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Old 12-10-2009   #10
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
QFT! I couldn't agree more, Runner. You said it better than I ever could.
Thanks, although I didn't think the "than build new good stuff" part was particularly well phrased.
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Old 12-10-2009   #11
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Thanks, although I didn't think the "than build new good stuff" part was particularly well phrased.
Which is probably still phrased better than what HOU-TEX could do.
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Old 12-10-2009   #12
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
None of this is an argument for Kubiak as is an argument against change and why he has not completed a task that should be expected in four years: one above .500 and/or playoffs wins.

What is Kubiak specifically doing well?
The overall question is "why should he stay". My point was bringing in a new coach isn't going to guarantee success.
Look at the Raiders since 2003, 4 coaching changes, zero winning seasons. Look at the 49ers since 2003, 3 different coaches zero winning seasons. Look at the Bills since 2000, they've had 1 winning season with 3 different coaches. Seattle isn't doing well with Mora. People pointed to Atlanta and Miami as bad teams that got much better with the new coach. Are they the exception or the norm? Atlanta and Miami both had an 11-5 records last year yes. But what about so far this year? Both are 6-6. When Miami got Saban, they went 9-7 and the 6-10 the year after. Atlanta got Mora in 2004 and went 11-5 then 8-8 then 7-9.Shoot, Tom Landry had 6 losing seasons before a winning season for our friends up 45 N. .
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Old 12-10-2009   #13
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
The overall question is "why should he stay". My point was bringing in a new coach isn't going to guarantee success.
The topic doesn't have anything to do with any other hypothetical coach.

I want to know what makes Kubiak such a good coach that he deserves another year.
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Old 12-10-2009   #14
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
The overall question is "why should he stay". My point was bringing in a new coach isn't going to guarantee success.
Look at the Raiders since 2003, 4 coaching changes, zero winning seasons. Look at the 49ers since 2003, 3 different coaches zero winning seasons. Look at the Bills since 2000, they've had 1 winning season with 3 different coaches. Seattle isn't doing well with Mora. People pointed to Atlanta and Miami as bad teams that got much better with the new coach. Are they the exception or the norm? Atlanta and Miami both had an 11-5 records last year yes. But what about so far this year? Both are 6-6. When Miami got Saban, they went 9-7 and the 6-10 the year after. Atlanta got Mora in 2004 and went 11-5 then 8-8 then 7-9.Shoot, Tom Landry had 6 losing seasons before a winning season for our friends up 45 N. .
This is more how I look at it too. I see the marked improvements that he has made and I look at the % of success if we bring in someone new. If you could guarantee me that a new coach would equal playoffs, I'd be fine with a change, right this minute. But the fact of the matter is, there are coaching changes every year and they don't all equate to an immediate winning season or playoffs.
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Old 12-10-2009   #15
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
The overall question is "why should he stay". My point was bringing in a new coach isn't going to guarantee success.
Look at the Raiders since 2003, 4 coaching changes, zero winning seasons. Look at the 49ers since 2003, 3 different coaches zero winning seasons. Look at the Bills since 2000, they've had 1 winning season with 3 different coaches. Seattle isn't doing well with Mora. People pointed to Atlanta and Miami as bad teams that got much better with the new coach. Are they the exception or the norm? Atlanta and Miami both had an 11-5 records last year yes. But what about so far this year? Both are 6-6. When Miami got Saban, they went 9-7 and the 6-10 the year after. Atlanta got Mora in 2004 and went 11-5 then 8-8 then 7-9.Shoot, Tom Landry had 6 losing seasons before a winning season for our friends up 45 N. .
Both Atlanta and Miami made drastic jumps and are still in the playoff hunt despite horrible injuries on both teams. Miami still has a shot at their division with the Pats in it. The Landry thing doesn't fly. For every Landry there are 20 Wannstedts.
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Old 12-10-2009   #16
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
The topic doesn't have anything to do with any other hypothetical coach.
I want to know what makes Kubiak such a good coach that he deserves another year.
That's BS. It has everything to do with a new "hypothetical coach" because if you are thinking about firing him, you have to be thinking about replacing him with someone who you think will be more successful than him with what we currently have in place...to win now. The current group wanting him fired is pissed because we are not going to the playoffs. You want it now.....which I would imagine every fan of this team wants the playoffs right now too. So to not imagine another coach, using the existing personel (which is going to be the fastest way to get to the playoffs), would not fit into the "WIN NOW" concept that is pushing for this dude to get fired.
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Old 12-10-2009   #17
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

The team is getting better and better each year...the bad thing is the losses are more heartbreaking because the team is getting better and better.


I would take this team under Kubiak over any under Capers. Kubiak drafting skills are very good....last year's second round being the exception.
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Old 12-10-2009   #18
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
What has he shown you that warrants another year?

What will be different next year?

I'd prefer something empirical. Something measurable.
nothing stated here will sway your opinion, but for the sake of argument, here's mine:

-elevated our offense from #28 in the league, to a top 10 offense league wide

-raised our passing offense up to #4 in the NFL from #27 when he arrived here

-improved total team defense from bottom 20%, up to top 50% at #16 overall

-not as empirical as you may prefer, but I don not believe there is a team in the league that sees Houston on the schedule and pencils it in as an automatic win. a vast improvement from 3 years ago...also, visit other team MB's and most all fans think we are on the verge of being a very good team.

-has identified, replaced, and purged the team of dead weight even while operating under financial constraints
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Old 12-10-2009   #19
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

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nothing stated here will sway your opinion, but for the sake of argument, here's mine:

-elevated our offense from #28 in the league, to a top 10 offense league wide

-raised our passing offense up to #4 in the nfl from #27 when he arrived here

-improved total team defense from bottom 20%, up to top 50% at #16 overall

-not as empirical as you may prefer, but i don not believe there is a team in the league that sees houston on the schedule and pencils it in as an automatic win. A vast improvement from 3 years ago...also, visit other team mb's and most all fans think we are on the verge of being a very good team.

-has identified, replaced, and purged the team of dead weight even while operating under financial constraints

qft!
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Old 12-10-2009   #20
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Default Re: Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
The overall question is "why should he stay". My point was bringing in a new coach isn't going to guarantee success.
Look at the Raiders since 2003, 4 coaching changes, zero winning seasons. Look at the 49ers since 2003, 3 different coaches zero winning seasons. Look at the Bills since 2000, they've had 1 winning season with 3 different coaches. Seattle isn't doing well with Mora. People pointed to Atlanta and Miami as bad teams that got much better with the new coach. Are they the exception or the norm? Atlanta and Miami both had an 11-5 records last year yes. But what about so far this year? Both are 6-6. When Miami got Saban, they went 9-7 and the 6-10 the year after. Atlanta got Mora in 2004 and went 11-5 then 8-8 then 7-9.Shoot, Tom Landry had 6 losing seasons before a winning season for our friends up 45 N. .
So you can't tell me why Kubiak deserves to stay based on the job he is doing.
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