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Old 12-23-2009   #1
TimeKiller
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Default Achieving/Disappointing

Just go down the list and calls 'em like you sees 'em

Offense:
Matt Schaub: Achieving and probably over achieving a tad
Slaton: Disappointing
Chris Brown:
Andre: Stellar achievments
Walter: Disappointing
OD: Achieving until injury
Dreesen/Casey/Hill: Disappointing
JJ: Overachieving until he kicked Kubiak's dog
David Anderson: Not disappointing but kind of plain achievements
Davis: Disappointing
Duane Brown: Not exactly achieving but not exactly disappointing either
Studdard: WOMP
Myers: WOMP
White: WOMP
Caldwell: There's a light at the end of the tunnel but this tunnel sure is dark right now
Winston: I almost call for disappointing but he's a 3rd round lineman playing like one. Achieving a nice salary?

I see 3 dudes (2.5 I guess) carrying the offense. No bueno, where's the offensive genius? Kubiak, Shan and Gibbs are all masters right?

Defense:
Mario: Disappointing. Don't care why.
Okoye: Almost as disappointing as Chris brown
Cody/Zgonina/Okam/Robinson: Neither. I mean who expects anything from them?
Smith: Achieving
Barwin: Achieving but still want to see improvements next year
Diles: Achieving
Ryans: Pro bowler
Cushing: Beast achieving
DRob: Disappointing but only because of the hype machine he created.
Reeves: Achieving
Quin: Over achieving
Pollard: Over achieving
Wilson: Kind of in between but leaning towards achieving
Barber/Busing: Neither, again, who expects anything from them? Anything good has been gravy.

D is starting to turn around so now coaches

Kubiak: In between but leaning to disappointing
Shan: Fired.
Gibbs: Fired.
Bush: Contract extension
Kollar: Fired.
Son Gibbs: Achieving a great deal since the secondary actually plays ball this year
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Old 12-23-2009   #2
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

There's a "Big Lebowski" joke in here somewhere.

Brad: These are all Mr. Kubiak's "kids"?

The Dude: So he's like cool, racially. Different mothers?

Brad: No, no, no they're not literally Gary's kids. These are his "Little Kubiak Urban Achievers!"
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Old 12-23-2009   #3
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

WOMP??

umm... is that a good thing or the sound of them landing after being kicked to the curb?
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Old 12-23-2009   #4
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
WOMP??

umm... is that a good thing or the sound of them landing after being kicked to the curb?
It's the sound of their sucking beating the fans over the head.

Point is, there are a lot of disappointments on the field right now and some achievers aren't even that great i.e. David Anderson, Wilson, Winston....

You look at the team and everyone but AJ and DRob are Kubiak/Smith guys but well into 10 of 'em are under performing and a few are complete duds. I know you can't have a probowler at every position but how long can people accept CRAP at a lot of positions? The SAME positions?

What were the major draft needs last year? DT, S, interior OL, RB
What were the major draft needs before then? DT, S, interior OL, RB
What are the major draft needs next year? DT, S, interior OL, RB
The one positive signing that falls into any category is Bernard Pollard but hitting a homer and then striking out 25 times makes you Jason Lane.
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Old 12-23-2009   #5
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Just go down the list and calls 'em like you sees 'em

Offense:
Matt Schaub: Achieving and probably over achieving a tad
Slaton: Disappointing
Chris Brown:
Andre: Stellar achievments
Walter: Disappointing
OD: Achieving until injury
Dreesen/Casey/Hill: Disappointing
JJ: Overachieving until he kicked Kubiak's dog
David Anderson: Not disappointing but kind of plain achievements
Davis: Disappointing
Duane Brown: Not exactly achieving but not exactly disappointing either
Studdard: WOMP
Myers: WOMP
White: WOMP
Caldwell: There's a light at the end of the tunnel but this tunnel sure is dark right now
Winston: I almost call for disappointing but he's a 3rd round lineman playing like one. Achieving a nice salary?

I see 3 dudes (2.5 I guess) carrying the offense. No bueno, where's the offensive genius? Kubiak, Shan and Gibbs are all masters right?

Defense:
Mario: Disappointing. Don't care why.
Okoye: Almost as disappointing as Chris brown
Cody/Zgonina/Okam/Robinson: Neither. I mean who expects anything from them?
Smith: Achieving
Barwin: Achieving but still want to see improvements next year
Diles: Achieving
Ryans: Pro bowler
Cushing: Beast achieving
DRob: Disappointing but only because of the hype machine he created.
Reeves: Achieving
Quin: Over achieving
Pollard: Over achieving
Wilson: Kind of in between but leaning towards achieving
Barber/Busing: Neither, again, who expects anything from them? Anything good has been gravy.

D is starting to turn around so now coaches

Kubiak: In between but leaning to disappointing
Shan: Fired.
Gibbs: Fired.
Bush: Contract extension
Kollar: Fired.
Son Gibbs: Achieving a great deal since the secondary actually plays ball this year
You kind of in a sense answered your own question. Just look at the list, you expect greatness from players you just mentioned? sure some of them have been disappointing, but most of them are backups playing because of injury.
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Old 12-23-2009   #6
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

I wouldn't say Schaub is over achieving since he works harder than anyone else. He shows up at 5 AM and is the last player to leave. His success is earned.

I don't see Pollard as over achieving because his performance has been consistent, punctuated by big games.

Okoye has been disappointing, but I don't agree with it being "Chris Brown" disappointing.

I'm with you on everyone else.
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Old 12-23-2009   #7
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Originally Posted by MFG16 View Post
You kind of in a sense answered your own question. Just look at the list, you expect greatness from players you just mentioned? sure some of them have been disappointing, but most of them are backups playing because of injury.
i was kinda thinking the same thing. you only have two guys on offense(that are still playing) that you put in the "achieving" catagory and we have an offense ranked in the top 10(i believe). seems they are doing a pretty good job with what they have.

now, whether it's there fault or not that they don't have better guys in place? thats a different conversation.
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Old 12-23-2009   #8
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

I think the original post is simplifying here and has a negative slant to it. How come the disappointments aren't characterized as 'under-achievers' (ie Slaton, Walter, Mario) yet Pollard/Quinn are 'over-achievers'?

And evaluating Studdard/White is absurd, they're not supposed to be playing this much they're backups.

Winston and Duane Brown have been way better than what you gave them. Funny how no one gives those guys credit for protecting Schaub on our 60 yard play-action bombs to Andre yet when they screw up 2 or 3 plays out of 50-70 offensive snaps they get chastised.
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Old 12-23-2009   #9
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

And what does it all equal!?!

A 7-7 mediocre team. (and maybe underachieving to some)
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Old 12-23-2009   #10
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

I prefer letter grades:

Offense:
Matt Schaub: A; not quite the field general of the top flight QB's but that's where coaching should take over.
Slaton: D; I wouldn't give up on a back who was as productive as he was the year before. I disagree mightily with Kubiak's treatment of the RB situation.
Chris Brown: C; he is what he is
Moats: B+; underutilized by coaching.
Leach: A; most underutilized person on the team.
Andre: A; stellar achievements? yes! but I feel the coaching staff could still use his talents better.
Walter: B-; not having the year he did last year, but still good. the problem is that we fans grade every receiver against AJ.
Davis: B; again, not being utilized. Looked good last year.
OD: A+
Dreesen/Casey/Hill: B; coaches gave up the ghost on our TE after OD went down and they're just starting to utilize these guys more. They are not devoid of talent.
JJ: B; coaches need to do a better job of utilizing this talent.
David Anderson: A; he suffers most from comparisons to AJ. Very serviceable backup.
Duane Brown: B+; just needs to keep working hard and refining his game.
Studdard: C; serviceable backup
Myers: D+; barely good as backup
White: C-; backup material?
Caldwell: C+; haven't seen enough to get true reading
Winston: B-; I want to believe ability is there to improve.

No bueno, where's the offensive genius? Kubiak, Shan and Gibbs are all masters right? Well, they're not utilizing their talent as effectively as they should be. Kubes is overrated. Shan is learning and an overrated Kubes hinders him. Gibbs may be great at teaching the zone blocking deal, but the zone blocking deal is old tech now.

Defense:
Mario: C; an average NFL DE. That is sad for someone with his ability. He needs to reach inside and pull it out and he needs his coaches to help.
Okoye: D; would struggle to make most NFL rosters at DT. I believe he may be better suited as a 3-4 DE.
Cody/Zgonina/Okam/Robinson: B-; Zgonina brings this grade up. I give them a B- for being slightly more than expected.
Smith: B; he's improved 2nd half of season.
Barwin: B-; has potential, too much one dimensional.
Diles: B; solid year with room for improvement.
Ryans: B; I don't think he's a pro bowler this year. He's effective at MLB but should be on the outside where he'd probably be great.
Cushing: A; great rookie year, still needs to learn game.
DRob: C-; not what he used to be & attitude gone South.
Reeves: B
Quin: B; potential to be better.
McCain: B; potential to be better
Bennett: D; can he rebound?
Pollard: B+; can he improve? he's still young you know..
Wilson: B; poor man's safety
Barber/Busing: C+

D is starting to turn around so now coaches

Kubiak: D-; underutilizing talent, not managing game well, interfering with Shan too much.
Shan: B-; needs experience, needs better mentor than Kubes.
Gibbs: C-; with backups starting in middle all season, he's done an almost respectable job. Just zone blocking is old tech now and the game seems to have passed it by.
Bush: B-; can someone tell me why our blitzers seldom get to the QB, while other teams blitzes seem to work well?
Kollar: C+; needs to get more out of Mario, no talent at DT.
Son Gibbs: A-; impressed with his first year of work.

Rick Smith: D-; not impressed with his personnel IQ. I think team needs major upgrade here, at head coach, and Oline coach.
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Old 12-23-2009   #11
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
I wouldn't say Schaub is over achieving since he works harder than anyone else. He shows up at 5 AM and is the last player to leave. His success is earned.

I don't see Pollard as over achieving because his performance has been consistent, punctuated by big games.

Okoye has been disappointing, but I don't agree with it being "Chris Brown" disappointing.

I'm with you on everyone else.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
I think the original post is simplifying here and has a negative slant to it. How come the disappointments aren't characterized as 'under-achievers' (ie Slaton, Walter, Mario) yet Pollard/Quinn are 'over-achievers'?

And evaluating Studdard/White is absurd, they're not supposed to be playing this much they're backups.

Winston and Duane Brown have been way better than what you gave them. Funny how no one gives those guys credit for protecting Schaub on our 60 yard play-action bombs to Andre yet when they screw up 2 or 3 plays out of 50-70 offensive snaps they get chastised.
Evaluating guys that have started pretty much the whole season as starters is absurd huh? I guess so.
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Old 12-23-2009   #12
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Fair enough.



Evaluating guys that have started pretty much the whole season as starters is absurd huh? I guess so.
What? No evaluating projected career backups like Studdard and White is absurd. The plan wasn't to have those two as our starting guards. The plan was for them to be backups. So to evaluate them as starters IS absurd.
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Old 12-23-2009   #13
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Just go down the list and calls 'em like you sees 'em

Offense:
Matt Schaub: Achieving and probably over achieving a tad
Slaton: Disappointing
Chris Brown:
Andre: Stellar achievments
Walter: Disappointing
OD: Achieving until injury
Dreesen/Casey/Hill: Disappointing
JJ: Overachieving until he kicked Kubiak's dog
David Anderson: Not disappointing but kind of plain achievements
Davis: Disappointing
Duane Brown: Not exactly achieving but not exactly disappointing either
Studdard: WOMP
Myers: WOMP
White: WOMP
Caldwell: There's a light at the end of the tunnel but this tunnel sure is dark right now
Winston: I almost call for disappointing but he's a 3rd round lineman playing like one. Achieving a nice salary?

I see 3 dudes (2.5 I guess) carrying the offense. No bueno, where's the offensive genius? Kubiak, Shan and Gibbs are all masters right?

Defense:
Mario: Disappointing. Don't care why.
Okoye: Almost as disappointing as Chris brown
Cody/Zgonina/Okam/Robinson: Neither. I mean who expects anything from them?
Smith: Achieving
Barwin: Achieving but still want to see improvements next year
Diles: Achieving
Ryans: Pro bowler
Cushing: Beast achieving
DRob: Disappointing but only because of the hype machine he created.
Reeves: Achieving
Quin: Over achieving
Pollard: Over achieving
Wilson: Kind of in between but leaning towards achieving
Barber/Busing: Neither, again, who expects anything from them? Anything good has been gravy.

D is starting to turn around so now coaches

Kubiak: In between but leaning to disappointing
Shan: Fired.
Gibbs: Fired.
Bush: Contract extension
Kollar: Fired.
Son Gibbs: Achieving a great deal since the secondary actually plays ball this year
I like the idea of this thread but overall I'm disappointed with your assessment. Not because I agree or disagree but because I feel like considerable assumptions were made about some of these players without looking deeper.

Quote:
Dreesen/Casey/Hill: Disappointing
This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Dreesen has been a disappointment cerainly in my eyes. I was calling for the trade of OPEN Daniels in preseason because I felt like his production was heavily system based. I thought Dreesen would be able to step in and have similar success. That hasn't been the case. He struggles mightily against DE's (I recognize the impossible is being asked of the TE in this system but he has performed below expectations in my opinion.) Secondly, he has not been able to get open quickly enough for Schaub. It's become clear to me that Daniels really excels at getting of the line quickly and getting into position.

However, I don't see how you can label Casey as disappointing. He had a knee injury and once healthy he hasn't been given much opportunity to do anything. I don't think that makes him a disappointment. Opportunities have to way into your assessment.

Anyway, just my thoughts on your thread. Good idea for sure. If I had more time I'd go down the list with you.
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Old 12-23-2009   #14
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

Schaub - Overachieving? No, I would say he's coming in to his own

Okoye - Almost as disapointing as Chris Brown? Okoye, IMO, has really stepped-up on run defense this year. If you're disapointed because of his pass rushing then you likely always will be because that is not one of his strengths.
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Old 12-23-2009   #15
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Originally Posted by DeMarCushPall View Post
Schaub - Overachieving? No, I would say he's coming in to his own

Okoye - Almost as disapointing as Chris Brown? Okoye, IMO, has really stepped-up on run defense this year. If you're disapointed because of his pass rushing then you likely always will be because that is not one of his strengths.
Funny, I thought coming out of college that was part of his upside. A 19 year old pass rushing DT. Nice revisionist history.
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Old 12-24-2009   #16
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Funny, I thought coming out of college that was part of his upside. A 19 year old pass rushing DT. Nice revisionist history.
Revisionist history? Maybe a revision of what you thought he was supposed to be or mabye what you wanted him to be! Who said he was "a 19 year old pass rushing DT"? I really want to know what so-called expert said that. There was nothing about him or his stats that would indicate coming out of college he would be a big time pash rusher.

In three seasons at Louisville he recorded a whapping 2.5 sacks.
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Old 12-24-2009   #17
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Originally Posted by DeMarCushPall View Post
Revisionist history? Maybe a revision of what you thought he was supposed to be or mabye what you wanted him to be! Who said he was "a 19 year old pass rushing DT"? I really want to know what so-called expert said that. There was nothing about him or his stats that would indicate coming out of college he would be a big time pash rusher.

In three seasons at Louisville he recorded a whapping 2.5 sacks.
I enjoy the draft as much or more than the regular season. What can I say Im a Texans fan. Anyway coming out he was considered a penetrating DT. That was considered his strength and that is the kind of DT this regime beleives in. That is why they drafted him and that is why he has beed a huge dissapointment.
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Old 12-24-2009   #18
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Dreesen has been a disappointment cerainly in my eyes. I was calling for the trade of OPEN Daniels in preseason because I felt like his production was heavily system based. I thought Dreesen would be able to step in and have similar success. That hasn't been the case. He struggles mightily against DE's (I recognize the impossible is being asked of the TE in this system but he has performed below expectations in my opinion.) Secondly, he has not been able to get open quickly enough for Schaub. It's become clear to me that Daniels really excels at getting of the line quickly and getting into position.
Well, I could go in depth with every guy but that would be boring. Besides, it was just a general overview to see exactly how many guys on the field aren't really pulling any weight.

Dreesen has been pretty rough, without giving thought of which shoes he's trying to fill. He doesn't have the quickness that OD has, not even close.
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However, I don't see how you can label Casey as disappointing. He had a knee injury and once healthy he hasn't been given much opportunity to do anything. I don't think that makes him a disappointment. Opportunities have to way into your assessment.
Well, I remember reading the SI article about how disgustingly versatile he would be. Maybe my disappointment isn't exactly with him but you wonder how hard it would really be to get this guy a couple chances to show what all the hype was about. Like...they really haven't used him for a wildcat play this whole season? They really haven't used him as a goalline back this whole season? They really can't even call a regular ass pass play to him? Why in the name of crap would you draft a guy like this and let all his talent go to waste? There aren't more talented players in front of him now. OD is out, Vonta has disappeared and the RB stable...well, Geezus, just about anything to break up the monotany of suck happening there would be a beacon of hope.

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Originally Posted by DeMarCushPall View Post
Okoye - Almost as disapointing as Chris Brown? Okoye, IMO, has really stepped-up on run defense this year. If you're disapointed because of his pass rushing then you likely always will be because that is not one of his strengths.
Uh........are we talking about Amobi Okoye? #91? Plays DT for the Texans?
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Old 12-24-2009   #19
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I enjoy the draft as much or more than the regular season. What can I say Im a Texans fan. Anyway coming out he was considered a penetrating DT. That was considered his strength and that is the kind of DT this regime beleives in. That is why they drafted him and that is why he has beed a huge dissapointment.
I agree that he was a penetrating DT in college, but not in pass rushing. His TFL numbers were very good. Maybe everyone looked at the TFL numbers as being an indicator that he would develop in to a great pass rusher, but I didn't see it that way. I have a tendancy not to pay much attention to what the so-called experts have to say. When the Texans draft a player I like to find out as much as I can about him stats/video and make my own assesment. IMO, these highly regarded draft experts have a tendancy to be wrong most of the time. To me, 2.5 sacks in three seasons just didn't translate into "a 19 year old pass rushing DT". I don't consider him a huge dissapointment because he is what I thought he would be. Since week four of this season, the Texans have given up only 87.5 YPG on run defense and no one can deny that he's played a big roll in that.
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Old 12-27-2009   #20
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Default Re: Achieving/Disappointing

on a different note
and as far a achieving, Texans have won a franchise record 5 games on the road this season
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