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Old 12-17-2009   #1
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Default Overhauling the interior trenches

Whether or not Kubiak returns next year our # 1 priority has to be improving our power in the interior on both sides of the ball. We need a legitimate run stuffing DT that can hold the POA at the LOS and most importantly keep blockers off the best young LB unit in the league.

Also, we need to upgrade what is currently the worst interior OL in the league imo. I would love to find someone, whether its in FA or the draft, to beat out Chris Myers once and for all as our starting center. Its going to be tough to have a credible short yardage offense as long as he's our starter. Who here thinks that Pitts can return and play at a high level for us? Shouldn't be hard to be better than Studdard after the injury, but if he's not at or close to where he was prior to the injury I don't know if we resign him. I hope that Caldwell will develop into a starter at either RG or C but I have to admit I am very discouraged that a 4 year starter at Alabama couldn't win a spot on our interior OL after Pitts/Brisiel went down.

My 1st pick would be drafting Toby Gerhart to shore up the "big back" problem once and for all in addition to prolonging Slaton's career by putting him in his rightful 3rd down back role. With Gerhart in the fold we start getting a lot more tds in the redzone and we'll finally be able to run out the clock when we jump out in front of good teams like the Colts.

My question to the draftnicks and FA experts is: Take away the 1st pick i've slotted for Gerhart. Who fits the bill in FA or in the 2nd-4th rounds of the draft on the interior OL and at DT as players who can step in here and upgrade our team?
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Old 12-17-2009   #2
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

Here are my ratings
Guards
1. Mike Iupati Idaho Big tough, not necessarily ZBS
2. Zane Beadles Utah Same as above, Played OT in college
3. Shawn Lauvao Ariz St. My favorite, versatile can play anywhere on OL
4. Mike Johnson Alabama Great college footbal player, reminds me of Steve McKinney
5. Jon Asamoah Ill. Great Athelete, perfect for ZBS, can play C/G
6. Thomas Austin Clemsom Same as above
7. Mitch Petrus Ark. Good fit for ZBS should be available in 4/5 rd.

C
1.J.D. Walton Baylor Tough guy, strong wont get thrown around like Myers, not great for ZBS
2. Jeff Byars USC 4 yr starter, smart, great fit for the ZBS
3. Matt Tennant B.C. Dont know much about him but BC has produced D.Koppen, D.Woody
4. Ted Larsen North Carolina St. Dont know much about him

OT's that could be moved to G or move Winston to G
1. Bryan Bulaga Iowa Reminds me of R.Gallery will be a better OG than OT in pros
2. Selvish Capers WVU great athelete can play anywhere on OL, inexperienced
3. Jaso Fox Miami A favorite of mine, great athelete, will probably start at RT early in pros

DT's
1. Dan Williams Tenn He is exactly what the Texans need. IMO Big body, tough guy
2. Lamar Houston Texas Another fav. of mine, Being a UT fan I could be biased
3. Vince Oghobaase Duke Talented but doesn't get the most out of his talent, may be a better player playing around better players, needs to get in better shape
4. Al Woods LSU Really improved as a SR, Big body, Very underrated IMO

These are just some of the prospects that could be available in Rds 2-6.

My favorite RB's are Dwyer, Hardesty, Matthews and Gerhart in that order

Let the discussion begin
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Old 12-18-2009   #3
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

I like Steelbtexans list of players though there's a couple I haven't heard of.

Here's my offseason plan for "Overhauling the interior trenches" next year.
Sign FA Logan Mankins-OG, start Antoine Caldwell at either C or OG, and then draft Jon Asamoah in the 2nd round. This would move Myers, and Brisiel to backup rolls and move Studdard and White off the squad.
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Old 12-18-2009   #4
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I like Steelbtexans list of players though there's a couple I haven't heard of.

Here's my offseason plan for "Overhauling the interior trenches" next year.
Sign FA Logan Mankins-OG, start Antoine Caldwell at either C or OG, and then draft Jon Asamoah in the 2nd round. This would move Myers, and Brisiel to backup rolls and move Studdard and White off the squad.
I would rather have Jahri Evans than Mankins, but having both would be pimp. We wouldn't be getting stuffed on the goal line, that's for sure.
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Old 12-18-2009   #5
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

I originally thought Chris White was going to be our answer at Center, & Caldwell would be our future RG. But after watching them, I think Caldwell would be wasted at RG, & needs to be playing Center. He's got more range than Myers, & in Kubiak's system the Center is going to get up to that second level more often than the other LineMen.

I think Caldwell would be starting if we weren't running ZB.

If GK is going to put the best players on the field, next year, it will be Caldwell at Center, & Myers at RG, if we don't draft someone to play RG.

I don't think Pitts will ever play for Kubiak again, because I don't believe he ever bought into the ZBS. If you watch them play, the movement on the OL usually stopped with him, when running to the left.

I understand if you are expecting a traditional power run game Interior line, you won't be happy with that. & if we change coaches who appreciates a more traditional run game, we might get rid of Myers altogether.

But since the Tennessee game, these guys have been playing pretty well. Our running backs just aren't seeing the lanes, or have no patience setting up the blocks.
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Old 12-19-2009   #6
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
I would rather have Jahri Evans than Mankins, but having both would be pimp. We wouldn't be getting stuffed on the goal line, that's for sure.
I'd have no problems with Jahri Evans either but I don't think there's any way New Orleans lets him get away. I think Logan Mankins is a better FA possibility.
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Old 12-19-2009   #7
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I like Steelbtexans list of players though there's a couple I haven't heard of.

Here's my offseason plan for "Overhauling the interior trenches" next year.
Sign FA Logan Mankins-OG, start Antoine Caldwell at either C or OG, and then draft Jon Asamoah in the 2nd round. This would move Myers, and Brisiel to backup rolls and move Studdard and White off the squad.
That OL sure would look better than the crap that is being put on the field now.

It all depends on the $ (Mankins) and resources (2nd rd. Asamoah) yhat management is willing to spend to fix the no.1A problem with the Texans. (1B being RB)

I know that CB and S positions need to be upgraded but if the OL was better and there was a competent every down RB the Texans record would probably be 9-4 or 9-5. IMO
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Old 12-19-2009   #8
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

I asked Eric Winston who he thought would line up between he and 76 on dalef next year and he didn't respond because... well, in my opinion, it's hard to answer. Surely it's not because he doesn't care about me as a super fan. Right? Eric cares about me doesn't he? Doesn't he?! Right??!!? It's okay for me to care what a 25 year old thinks of me right??!!??
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Old 12-19-2009   #9
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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I asked Eric Winston who he thought would line up between he and 76 on dalef next year and he didn't respond because... well, in my opinion, it's hard to answer. Surely it's not because he doesn't care about me as a super fan. Right? Eric cares about me doesn't he? Doesn't he?! Right??!!? It's okay for me to care what a 25 year old thinks of me right??!!??
Barrett sure it's OK you're a fan. LOL

I think that depending on the coaching staff there is a chance Winston could be moved inside to G.

If Bruce Campbell would be availabe at 13-15 where we'll be picking. IMO

I think the the Texans will take him and start him at one of the OT spots and move either Brown or Winston inside to G.

Campbell is a stud who probably wont be there when the Texans pick,after he tears it up at the combine.

Campbell is the kind of OT this franchise hasn't ever had, a franchise cornerstone. Think this years Oher.

TK I felt the same way about Pitts not buying into the ZBS.
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Old 12-19-2009   #10
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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That OL sure would look better than the crap that is being put on the field now.

It all depends on the $ (Mankins) and resources (2nd rd. Asamoah) yhat management is willing to spend to fix the no.1A problem with the Texans. (1B being RB)

I know that CB and S positions need to be upgraded but if the OL was better and there was a competent every down RB the Texans record would probably be 9-4 or 9-5. IMO

When I look at the Texans and try to decide who to pick up in FA and the draft I try to keep money in mind as well. Bob McNair has got way more money than is necessary to run a football team but that doesn't mean that he wants to waste it. I see this team being run rather efficiently/cheaply, management doesn't seem to want to waste money. That's why I chose Logan Mankins in FA over a #1 CB, simply stated top of the line OG's are cheaper than top of the line CB's, thus you pick the cheaper positions in FA and draft the expensive ones when possible. Caldwell should start next year, hopefully at C, and one relatively expensive FA each year, this year it's Logan Mankins to start at LG, and then a 2nd round draft pick, Jon Asamoah to start at RG. This would be a massive improvement over the UDFA and 6th round picks that are starting now.

As for Pitts, he's never been a great OG no matter the blocking system we run. He's always been average at best and with the injury I don't think any team is going to throw alot of money his way. If we re-sign him it should be fairly inexpensive.
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Old 12-20-2009   #11
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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Whether or not Kubiak returns next year our # 1 priority has to be improving our power in the interior on both sides of the ball. We need a legitimate run stuffing DT that can hold the POA at the LOS and most importantly keep blockers off the best young LB unit in the league.

Also, we need to upgrade what is currently the worst interior OL in the league imo. I would love to find someone, whether its in FA or the draft, to beat out Chris Myers once and for all as our starting center. Its going to be tough to have a credible short yardage offense as long as he's our starter. Who here thinks that Pitts can return and play at a high level for us? Shouldn't be hard to be better than Studdard after the injury, but if he's not at or close to where he was prior to the injury I don't know if we resign him. I hope that Caldwell will develop into a starter at either RG or C but I have to admit I am very discouraged that a 4 year starter at Alabama couldn't win a spot on our interior OL after Pitts/Brisiel went down.

My 1st pick would be drafting Toby Gerhart to shore up the "big back" problem once and for all in addition to prolonging Slaton's career by putting him in his rightful 3rd down back role. With Gerhart in the fold we start getting a lot more tds in the redzone and we'll finally be able to run out the clock when we jump out in front of good teams like the Colts.

My question to the draftnicks and FA experts is: Take away the 1st pick i've slotted for Gerhart. Who fits the bill in FA or in the 2nd-4th rounds of the draft on the interior OL and at DT as players who can step in here and upgrade our team?
Alot of people are falling in love with Gerhart. I really dont think he will go on the first day. I surely wouldnt use our first on him. If hes there in the 3rd I would consider him but only if there wasnt a better trenches guy available.

Our best bet for solving the problems you listed is a trade down in the first and aquiring another second or third round pick. Getting any combination of 4 of these guys would go a long way towards that.

BRYAN BULAGA OT IOWA
Anthony Davis OT Rutgers
MIKE IUPATI OT IDAHO
Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech
Terrence Cody DT Alabama
Bruce Campbell OT Maryland
Jared Odrick DT Penn State
Selvish Capers OT West Virginia
Toby Gerhart RB Stanford
Kyle Hix OT Texas
Dan Williams DT Tennessee
Mike Pouncey OG Florida
Sam Young OT Notre Dame
Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
Boo Robinson DT Wake Forest
Jon Asamoah OG Illinois
Sergio Render OG Virginia Tech
Zane Beadles OT Utah
Jason Fox OT Miami (Fla.)
Adam Ulatoski OT Texas
Thomas Austin OG Clemson

Actually there should be some pretty good big bacKs available in the later rounds.

Ryan Matthews RB Fresno State
LeGarrette Blount RB Oregon
Charles Scott RB LSU
Keiland Williams RB LSU

Should Kubiak remain our coach I dont see his draft philosophy changing much. RB will be 3rd round or later and safety will be a low priority also. Not that I like that just how I see Kubiak and Smith doing it.
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Old 12-20-2009   #12
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If GK is going to put the best players on the field, next year, it will be Caldwell at Center, & Myers at RG, if we don't draft someone to play RG.
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Old 12-20-2009   #13
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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When I look at the Texans and try to decide who to pick up in FA and the draft I try to keep money in mind as well. Bob McNair has got way more money than is necessary to run a football team but that doesn't mean that he wants to waste it. I see this team being run rather efficiently/cheaply, management doesn't seem to want to waste money. That's why I chose Logan Mankins in FA over a #1 CB, simply stated top of the line OG's are cheaper than top of the line CB's, thus you pick the cheaper positions in FA and draft the expensive ones when possible. Caldwell should start next year, hopefully at C, and one relatively expensive FA each year, this year it's Logan Mankins to start at LG, and then a 2nd round draft pick, Jon Asamoah to start at RG. This would be a massive improvement over the UDFA and 6th round picks that are starting now.

As for Pitts, he's never been a great OG no matter the blocking system we run. He's always been average at best and with the injury I don't think any team is going to throw alot of money his way. If we re-sign him it should be fairly inexpensive.
This is how I see it.

I would like to see the Texans pick up a vet OG like Mankins in FA. It wouldn't hurt my feeling if they tried to trade a 2nd or 3rd rd pick and get a veteran like Lynch or Fargas. Both should be available.

In addition to drafting a RB like K.Williams or B.Tate in the 4th or 5th rds. The RB's are not dpendable enough to hold onto the ball much less be productive.
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Old 12-28-2009   #14
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

I'm against a 1st round RB unless we get a superstar like Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson. Other than that, get a solid rotational guy. I still think our problem are the guys upfront.

Last year we were lucky and had all 5 guys play next to each other and we had one of the top running games in the league. Chances of that happening again were pretty slim and it didn't take a genius to realize we had thin depth. Injuries are a part of the game, it happened and look at our running game this year. Luckily, they've been solid in pass blocking and Schaub hasn't been hit too much.

I like the system Kubiak has put in place but my biggest problem with it is a huge deficiency. Short yardarge, goal line, red zone situations... I think our trouble converting is directly due to our undersized finesse blockers. We get overmatched against a big DL and it's hard to win at the point of attack.

I hope we find some stud interior OL-men early in the 2010 draft. I think a #1 CB will be important too. Chances are Dunta's gone, we have needed and still need a true #1, have Reeves on the other side and Quin as the 3rd. Gotta continue developing Bennett and McCain.
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Old 12-28-2009   #15
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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I'm against a 1st round RB unless we get a superstar like Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson. Other than that, get a solid rotational guy. I still think our problem are the guys upfront.

Last year we were lucky and had all 5 guys play next to each other and we had one of the top running games in the league. Chances of that happening again were pretty slim and it didn't take a genius to realize we had thin depth. Injuries are a part of the game, it happened and look at our running game this year. Luckily, they've been solid in pass blocking and Schaub hasn't been hit too much.

I like the system Kubiak has put in place but my biggest problem with it is a huge deficiency. Short yardarge, goal line, red zone situations... I think our trouble converting is directly due to our undersized finesse blockers. We get overmatched against a big DL and it's hard to win at the point of attack.

I hope we find some stud interior OL-men early in the 2010 draft. I think a #1 CB will be important too. Chances are Dunta's gone, we have needed and still need a true #1, have Reeves on the other side and Quin as the 3rd. Gotta continue developing Bennett and McCain.
Dude ... where you been ? Let me guess your Michael Oher's agent .

Erik Winston said a while back that the NFL boils down to match ups . That schemes only go so far and then it's can my guy beat your guy . I guess the answer then is no , our guy can't beat their guy . When you can't make 4th and a foot on a sneak ... it's time for change .
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Old 12-28-2009   #16
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Dude ... where you been ? Let me guess your Michael Oher's agent .

Erik Winston said a while back that the NFL boils down to match ups . That schemes only go so far and then it's can my guy beat your guy . I guess the answer then is no , our guy can't beat their guy . When you can't make 4th and a foot on a sneak ... it's time for change .
Yea been a bit busy... you know with courting around Sandra Bullock and all!

I like our system for the most part, all the misdirection, naked bootlegs, play action, etc. But like you said, when its 4th and 1 and the defense knows what you're going to do, sometimes you have to be the better team and win that battle. Hopefully Caldwell was a step in that direction... and we can add at least another from FA or the draft.
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Old 12-28-2009   #17
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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Yea been a bit busy... you know with courting around Sandra Bullock and all!

I like our system for the most part, all the misdirection, naked bootlegs, play action, etc. But like you said, when its 4th and 1 and the defense knows what you're going to do, sometimes you have to be the better team and win that battle. Hopefully Caldwell was a step in that direction... and we can add at least another from FA or the draft.
Good luck with Sandra , I'd recommend going after Collins myself .

I think the three moves that would push this team into a deep playoff contender are A. a stout interior C/G to go with Caldwell . B. A top tier RB . C. A FS that can hit , has speed , and ball skills .

Things that wouldn't hurt , a DT , CB , and better special teams . Heck ... I'm ready to try Jacoby as the 2nd WR , he makes things happen ... I think Walter is a FA .
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Last edited by Honoring Earl 34; 12-28-2009 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-29-2009   #18
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

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I like Steelbtexans list of players though there's a couple I haven't heard of.

Here's my offseason plan for "Overhauling the interior trenches" next year.
Sign FA Logan Mankins-OG, start Antoine Caldwell at either C or OG, and then draft Jon Asamoah in the 2nd round. This would move Myers, and Brisiel to backup rolls and move Studdard and White off the squad.
I'm liking Asamoah for this team. May even be our 1st rd pick come April. I also like the idea of picking up a quality OG during FA.
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Old 12-30-2009   #19
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

I think that the need to overhaul our O-line stems from the idea that Kubiak and Gibbs have that in order for an O-lineman to be quick he has to be small, under 300 lbs.. This was fine back in the 80's and early 90's but big guys are faster, stronger, and more athletic than before and Kubiak/Gibbs haven't kept up with the times. I think the ZBS can be effective but it's an old blocking scheme that defensive coordinators have figured out. Our undersized line thus gets thrown around like rag dolls. I'm not against running the ZBS but the O-linemen are obviously going to have to be bigger. Guys I like this year:

Mike Johnson-OG
Mitch Petrus-OG
Jon Asamoah-OG
J.D. Walton-C
Sergio Render-OG
Thomas Austin-OG

I think we need 2 new O-linemen this year either in FA or the draft or one of each, but our starters should be backups and our backups should be watching the game from the stands.
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Old 01-13-2010   #20
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Default Re: Overhauling the interior trenches

So in all seriousness and reality, what do yall think of Caldwell's chances of being our starting Center? I don't care what I want or you want because I think we all want Myers out... but I don't think that's the reality.

Let's try and read Kubiak and Dennison's minds and see what they're thinking and expecting. Will they replace Myers with Caldwell and get a new starting G in FA or the Draft? Or do you think they're okay with Myers a C still and want Caldwell to be a starting guard?

I think whatever O-linemen we draft will need to be versatile and have the ability to play multiple positions (like Caldwell). This kind of brought me to Mike Johnson from Alabama. His athleticism and ability to play multiple positions, his familiarity with Caldwell... sounds like a great fit.

Brown - Johnson - Caldwell - ??? - Winston
Brown - Johnson - Myers - Caldwell - Winston

What do yall think? I'm still of the idea of seeing what you got with Pitts, getting Brisiel healthy, drafting G/C and also getting a decent OG in FA.
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