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Old 12-09-2009   #1
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Default So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

I keep hearing if we make a coaching staff change he'll implode the roster and we'll have to rebuild from scratch.

This seems a bit like an oxymoron, considering those saying a reason to keep Kubiak because we have the talent and we're close.It's paramount to saying that since Gary Kubiak assembled this roster he's the only one qualified to work with it.

So where do we start the imploding that you guys are talking about?

Ok "worst" case scenario, Cowher or not, what if we bring in a HC who prefers a power running scheme and to run a 3-4 defense.

Make a case for us having to start over.
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Old 12-09-2009   #2
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

People are saying that because they're working off their experience from the Capers-Kubiak transition. It's a misconception, though.

1. The talent level on this team is light years beyond our 2005 team. There is absolutely no need to blow up the personnel here. If the hypothetical new coach had a significantly different scheme (i.e. 3-4), there would be some changes that need to be made. But nothing that would take years to execute.

2. Even if there were a dearth in talent here (there's not), Miami, Denver, Atlanta, etc. are all examples of teams that went from top 5 picks to playoff teams in one offseason.

That said, Kubiak will be back next year. So, all of this arguing is an exercise in futility.
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Old 12-09-2009   #3
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

As Atwyst and I along with multiple others have pointed out in detail in multiple threads, it wouldnt. No one that dissagrees will give a decent post as to why it would.
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Old 12-09-2009   #4
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

The front office would be redone or maybe the coaches but that would take time and then we got a horrible draft and it is a disaster Kubes will remain and we will win 11 games next year
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Old 12-09-2009   #5
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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The front office would be redone or maybe the coaches but that would take time and then we got a horrible draft and it is a disaster Kubes will remain and we will win 11 games next year
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Old 12-09-2009   #6
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

I want to say saw the figure at 30-35% of all roster turnover every year in the age of FA. The texans have a decent core players who should be able to play any most systems and quite honestly one of the appeals of the job is that a coach should not have overhaul the whole thing. Answering questions about current players and potential turnover is normally a part of the interview process so that an organization should know what it is in for in that regard.
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Old 12-09-2009   #7
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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As Atwyst and I along with multiple others have pointed out in detail in multiple threads, it wouldnt. No one that dissagrees will give a decent post as to why it would.
That's my point. I keep hearing we'll have to change the roster over for X head coach. I just want a person who cites this as a reason for Kubiak to stay make a reasonable argument for why they say this, instead of throwing stuff to the wall and hoping it sticks.
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Old 12-09-2009   #8
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

i don't think a new coach would change anything that this current staff will change in the offseason
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Old 12-09-2009   #9
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Cool Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
As Atwyst and I along with multiple others have pointed out in detail in multiple threads, it wouldnt. No one that dissagrees will give a decent post as to why it would.
The thought being if a coach has to "implemenet his sytem and people" he gets to stay for 4-5 years. If he is supposed to take us to the playoffs with what we have now, he may be fired in 2 years if he doesn't perform.

No one actually thinks the team should be imploded.
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Old 12-09-2009   #10
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

IMO theres both positives and negatives to "Purging" the roster. So say we get Head Coach X and he wants a power running game and a 3-4 Def. 1. We now have to get a new interior o-line (however thats a weakness now and many agree we need to do it anyways so: positive) 2. we need some new defensive pieces, and here is where it gets scary (atleast for me). by switching to a 3-4 we can basically right off okoye because his not suitable for it. (another bust) Same with Mario. i mean come on Mario isn't a 3-4 dlinemen, and what your gunna move him to linebacker? Don't think so. we also are going to have to get new DB's (again another weakness so:positive). but all in all this is going to take some time, and everyone including myself wants playoffs now..so if we do make a coaching change get someone who runs this system!
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Old 12-09-2009   #11
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

A roster purge wouldn't happen for 2 reasons.

1. The roster is probably the main reason that a potential coach would be attracted to the job.

2. The owner wouldn't let him purge the roster.
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Old 12-09-2009   #12
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
As Atwyst and I along with multiple others have pointed out in detail in multiple threads, it wouldnt. No one that dissagrees will give a decent post as to why it would.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
The front office would be redone or maybe the coaches but that would take time and then we got a horrible draft and it is a disaster Kubes will remain and we will win 11 games next year
SEE!

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
The thought being if a coach has to "implemenet his sytem and people" he gets to stay for 4-5 years. If he is supposed to take us to the playoffs with what we have now, he may be fired in 2 years if he doesn't perform.

No one actually thinks the team should be imploded.
AGAIN! I think, this post was kinda confusing.

I think this thread will put this BS excuse to rest.
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Old 12-09-2009   #13
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
A roster purge wouldn't happen for 2 reasons.

1. The roster is probably the main reason that a potential coach would be attracted to the job.

2. The owner wouldn't let him purge the roster.

1) Parts of the roster, yes. For example, no coach would get rid of Andre, Matt and OD. But, they may want big, fat lineman and may need to make some changes.

2) Are you on crack? The owner would let him do whatever he wanted.
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Old 12-09-2009   #14
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by MFG16 View Post
IMO theres both positives and negatives to "Purging" the roster. So say we get Head Coach X and he wants a power running game and a 3-4 Def. 1. We now have to get a new interior o-line (however thats a weakness now and many agree we need to do it anyways so: positive) 2. we need some new defensive pieces, and here is where it gets scary (atleast for me). by switching to a 3-4 we can basically right off okoye because his not suitable for it. (another bust) Same with Mario. i mean come on Mario isn't a 3-4 dlinemen, and what your gunna move him to linebacker? Don't think so. we also are going to have to get new DB's (again another weakness so:positive). but all in all this is going to take some time, and everyone including myself wants playoffs now..so if we do make a coaching change get someone who runs this system!
What makes you think Okoye is suitable for a 4-3? So far he's been a bust.

Bruce Smith did pretty well as a 3-4 end. I think Mario has the size/strength to hold the POA as a 3-4 end plus we also get the bonus of standing him up as an OLB in situational packages because of his speed. If anything it makes Mario MORE dangerous because of all the different ways we could attack offenses with him.

I want a coach who emphasizes an OL that can get a push at the LOS. Not these small/quick OL that only work well between the 20s. If we can get a coach who would like to overhaul the interior OL this offense becomes truly elite with the skill players we have.

I'd also like to see a coach that would prefer big-body DTs so we can get a push on defense as well. And maybe a coaching staff that places any sort of value on a high-caliber safety. This team has never in their history had a top-tier safety...but the worst part of all is they haven't put forth the effort to acquire one.
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Old 12-09-2009   #15
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I keep hearing if we make a coaching staff change he'll implode the roster and we'll have to rebuild from scratch.

This seems a bit like an oxymoron, considering those saying a reason to keep Kubiak because we have the talent and we're close.It's paramount to saying that since Gary Kubiak assembled this roster he's the only one qualified to work with it.

So where do we start the imploding that you guys are talking about?

Ok "worst" case scenario, Cowher or not, what if we bring in a HC who prefers a power running scheme and to run a 3-4 defense.

Make a case for us having to start over.
It wouldnt take a total makeover but it would require changing some parts - Much like running a 3-4 rather than a 4-3 swapping to a traditional power running game would require a different type of offensive lineman.

To make the transition from this ZBS - I wish we would new coach or not - we would likely need to replace both guard spots and the center position as the players there arent "Blow you off the ball" type blockers , they are finesse players than those who are just gonna move defenders.

In that type of running attack , I dont believe the back makes as much difference as the line - You could get away with a Slaton type or a guy like Willis McGahee , I think either could be effective.
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Old 12-09-2009   #16
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

The Browns, Rams, Lions, Chiefs - those teams need a roster purge

The Texans - not even in the same realm as those teams

The Packers and Broncos didn't have to strip the whole thing down and start over necessarily when going to a 3-4... some players switched positions.. some players stayed in their same positions and it was assumed with different coaching they'd improve

Both of those defenses are top 10 now
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Old 12-09-2009   #17
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
The front office would be redone or maybe the coaches but that would take time and then we got a horrible draft and it is a disaster Kubes will remain and we will win 11 games next year
This isn't about the front office. This is about a new coach coming in and people talking about we'd have to start over because they'd want to bring their players in. I think for better or worse no matter what Rick Smith will likely finish his contract out.

I don't even see how you can assume we'd have a terrible draft, considering we had an up and down draft this year. I still don't think Smith's been real great at the draft. I think he's been good at finding value priced FA to fit holes for short term.

What makes you think we'll win 11 games next year considering: we have the NFC East next year and went 1-5 in the division this year.

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IMO theres both positives and negatives to "Purging" the roster. So say we get Head Coach X and he wants a power running game and a 3-4 Def. 1. We now have to get a new interior o-line (however thats a weakness now and many agree we need to do it anyways so: positive) 2. we need some new defensive pieces, and here is where it gets scary (atleast for me). by switching to a 3-4 we can basically right off okoye because his not suitable for it. (another bust) Same with Mario. i mean come on Mario isn't a 3-4 dlinemen, and what your gunna move him to linebacker? Don't think so. we also are going to have to get new DB's (again another weakness so:positive). but all in all this is going to take some time, and everyone including myself wants playoffs now..so if we do make a coaching change get someone who runs this system!
Well at least someone has stepped up even if it wasn't much considering, as you pointed out, we could use aremaking of the interior of the OL anyway. I actually think Okoye might be better off as a 3-4 DE as opposed to a 4-3 DT. We'd have to likely rotate out DEs anyway. I do agree on wasting Mario's talent as a 3-4 DE, but if it pushed us to be a better unit overall I'd take it.

Again no surprise on having to get players in the secondary. We need to do that anyway.

Can't someone with the whole starting over with the roster straw man make a better argument?

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A roster purge wouldn't happen for 2 reasons.

1. The roster is probably the main reason that a potential coach would be attracted to the job.

2. The owner wouldn't let him purge the roster.
Again this has been my point. No one arguing that X head coach would have to come in and bring his people and overhaul the roster can make a legit argument.

I hate putting it in terms of "pro" or "anti" Kubiak, but it seems the later keeps throwing things to the wall and hoping it sticks.
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Old 12-09-2009   #18
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by MFG16 View Post
IMO theres both positives and negatives to "Purging" the roster. So say we get Head Coach X and he wants a power running game and a 3-4 Def. 1. We now have to get a new interior o-line (however thats a weakness now and many agree we need to do it anyways so: positive) 2. we need some new defensive pieces, and here is where it gets scary (atleast for me). by switching to a 3-4 we can basically right off okoye because his not suitable for it. (another bust) Same with Mario. i mean come on Mario isn't a 3-4 dlinemen, and what your gunna move him to linebacker? Don't think so. we also are going to have to get new DB's (again another weakness so:positive). but all in all this is going to take some time, and everyone including myself wants playoffs now..so if we do make a coaching change get someone who runs this system!
Ok first you dont not swith to a 3/4 because it makes a bust a useless bust. He's still yound and has potential therfore he has trade value. Second Mario is the prototyopical 3/4 DE. Ideally 3-4 DEs should weigh 285300 pounds and be able to beat double teams by getting a push. Right now Mario is being missused anyway. He's being utilized as a speed rusher which he isnt. The best part of his game (physical) is being wasted trying to run him around opposing OT's which takes him completely out of the play. So that makes both of your negetives positives. Now what?
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Old 12-09-2009   #19
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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The Browns, Rams, Lions, Chiefs - those teams need a roster purge

The Texans - not even in the same realm as those teams

The Packers and Broncos didn't have to strip the whole thing down and start over necessarily when going to a 3-4... some players switched positions.. some players stayed in their same positions and it was assumed with different coaching they'd improve

Both of those defenses are top 10 now
actually they are both top 5.
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Old 12-09-2009   #20
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Default Re: So why would we need a roster purge with a new HC?

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Originally Posted by MFG16 View Post
by switching to a 3-4 we can basically right off okoye because his not suitable for it. (another bust) Same with Mario. i mean come on Mario isn't a 3-4 dlinemen, and what your gunna move him to linebacker? Don't think so.
0k0ye isn't even a good 4-3 player...moving to a 3-4 isn't gonna make him a bad player all of a sudden. I'm pretty sure he sucks in both schemes. Mario is pretty much a prototype 3-4 end. Look up Bruce Smith and what kind of defense he played in...yeah, a 3-4. Smith is one of the NFL's all time sack leaders. It's not like Mario is some super quick edge rusher that couldn't play the 3-4 end. Great DE's with size like Richard Seymore and Bruce Smith can play in any system. Mario could too.
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