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Old 12-07-2009   #1
Goatcheese
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Default How talented are the Houston Texans

We've talked about this in a number of threads recently, and never really reached a consensus.

We hear all the time that this team is loaded with talent, but personally I don't see it. I looked at our roster back in May, and I just couldn't see how this team was loaded and ready to make a playoff run. That's why I couldn't vote any higher than 7-9.

I would like for everyone to go through the roster, and rank our players in these basic categories. Then decide if that is really a playoff level team.

Elite: near the very top of their position
Good: Pro Bowl level players
Quality: They belong as starters on a good team
Developing: Young guys who are developing, or just too soon to call a bust or quality+
Role players: one dimensional players who are a liability outside their primary strength
Depth: NFL caliber players who should not be a primary starter on a good team
Poor: Players who are not playing well, and would not win a roster spot on a good team
Ugly: Really bad

players in red were here before Rick Smith.

Elite
Andre Johnson
Owen Daniels
Mario Williams
(when healthy)

Good
DeMeco Ryans
Brian Cushing
Matt Schaub

Quality
Zach Diles
Dunta Robinson
Jacques Reeves
Kevin Walter
Eric Winston
Chester Pitts
Vonta Leach

Developing
Amobi Okoye
Duane Brown
Glover Quin
Connor Barwin
Xavier Adibi
Jacoby Jones
James Casey
Steve Slaton
Antoine Caldwell
Brice McCain
Antwaun Molden

Role players/One dimensional
Eugene Wilson(coverage)
Bernard Pollard(run support)
Anthony Hill(blocking)

Depth
Antonio Smith
Kevin Bentley
Joel Dreessen
Chris Myers
Rashad Butler
Ryan Moats
Mike Brisiel
David Anderson
Shaun Cody
Jeff Zgonina
Tim Bulman
Deljuan Robinson


Poor
Andre' Davis
Chris Brown
Glenn Martinez
Nick Ferguson
Tim Jamison
Jesse Nading
Kris Brown
Matt Turk

Ugly
Chris White
Kasey Studdard
John Busing
Dominique Barber
Fred Bennett

Here's where we know we have quality players:

QB Matt Schaub
WR Andre Johnson- Kevin Walter
RB ?
FB Vonta Leach
TE Owen Daniels (Out)
LT ?
LG Pitts (Out)
OC ?
RG ?
RT Winston

RE Mario Williams
NT ?
DT ?
LE ?
Wil Zach Diles
MLB DeMeco Ryans
Sam Brian Crushing
FS ?
SS ?
CB Jacques Reeves - Dunta Robinson

That is a lot of question marks for a team that many expected to be competing for the division crown this year. We've got some players developing to fill them, but they're not quality players yet.
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Old 12-07-2009   #2
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

no team is "finished" and this team as as much talent as anyone else outside of about 4 teams in this league. You still think 0k0ye is "developing"? Next year is year 4 and his rookie year is still his best season.
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Old 12-07-2009   #3
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
no team is "finished" and this team as as much talent as anyone else outside of about 4 teams in this league. You still think 0k0ye is "developing"? Next year is year 4 and his rookie year is still his best season.
Yeah, I think this team has plenty of talent and it's been shown all season long. We've actually got more talent than I thought we did going into the season actually. We're right there with a lot of good teams at this point other than a few. Talent is no longer the huge problem that it once was. If we could have a good off season where we resign some of our productive players and bring in some new talent in FA with a really good draft. Then all we need to do is find us a good HC and we'll be up there with a ton of teams talent wise and close to being amongst the best.
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Old 12-07-2009   #4
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
no team is "finished" and this team as as much talent as anyone else outside of about 4 teams in this league. You still think 0k0ye is "developing"? Next year is year 4 and his rookie year is still his best season.
There are only a few teams that can say they have 6+ Pro Bowl level players, but we don't have the quality starters to surround them with that an elite team should.

Okoye has been good at times and bad at times. He will blow up a double team one play, then get pushed off the ball on another. With what I've seen out of him, and his age, I still think it's too soon to call him a bust.
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Old 12-07-2009   #5
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
There are only a few teams that can say they have 6+ Pro Bowl level players, but we don't have the quality starters to surround them with that an elite team should.

Okoye has been good at times and bad at times. He will blow up a double team one play, then get pushed off the ball on another. With what I've seen out of him, and his age, I still think it's too soon to call him a bust.
3 years now. He's easily a bust when you consider that he was a first rounder. He wasn't a 4th round pick.
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Old 12-07-2009   #6
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
3 years now. He's easily a bust when you consider that he was a first rounder. He wasn't a 4th round pick.
Feel free to rank him as poor if you would like. He is a '?' either way when you look at the talent.
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Old 12-07-2009   #7
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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3 years now. He's easily a bust when you consider that he was a first rounder. He wasn't a 4th round pick.
top 10 pick to boot. You pay a premium for these guys.
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Old 12-07-2009   #8
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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top 10 pick to boot. You pay a premium for these guys.
Yeah, when you consider the amount of money he got with his rookie contract as well, there is no discussion as to whether he's a bust.
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Old 12-07-2009   #9
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

Lot of people like to characterize the Texans as a talented team that underachieves and or chokes when its a big game is on the line.
I dunno 'bout the underachieving or choking part, but I just don't think the team is that talented.
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Old 12-07-2009   #10
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
top 10 pick to boot. You pay a premium for these guys.
Have you noticed how his press clippings have changed? Originally, he was a guy that can get after the passer but will have to improve at the POA. Now, he's a guy that can play the run pretty well but will never be a good pass rusher...

Now, this is the stuff coming from guys like JMcClain but I'm sure the organization is feeding him this kind of stuff. He doesn't even pretend to make those kinds of football judgements on his own, except when he's putting out his "report card".
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Old 12-07-2009   #11
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Lot of people like to characterize the Texans as a talented team that underachieves and or chokes when its a big game is on the line.
I dunno 'bout the underachieving or choking part, but I just don't think the team is that talented.
You wouldn't call them chokers when they've screwed themselves out of multiple games this season from blunders inside the 5, to missed FG kicks, to blown leads, to epic play calling failures? That is the definition of choking. Look up the word in a sports dictionary and you'd see the 2009 Texans team right next to the word. I think the amount of talent on this team has shown itself this season a lot. The lack of leadership is what has hurt them and the lack of urgency at crucial moments. They have plenty of talent now, and a really good off season could really spike this team.
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Old 12-07-2009   #12
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

The issue to me is not our quality players but the others. Schaub goes out for a quarter and RG looks lost. Pitts is out and Studdard is pretty bad. Same on other side when Chris White is in. Our running games is average or below regardless of who is playing. Busing should not be on team and Barber should exit right behind him. We have average corners that are propped up by the strong safety Pollard. We need to fill these holes in draft.
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Old 12-07-2009   #13
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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The issue to me is not our quality players but the others. Schaub goes out for a quarter and RG looks lost. Pitts is out and Studdard is pretty bad. Same on other side when Chris White is in. Our running games is average or below regardless of who is playing. Busing should not be on team and Barber should exit right behind him. We have average corners that are propped up by the strong safety Pollard. We need to fill these holes in draft.
I'm sure you probably never heard of most of the Colts replacement players before they were coached up and inserted into the Colts lineup when their star players went down.
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Old 12-07-2009   #14
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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I think the amount of talent on this team has shown itself this season a lot. The lack of leadership is what has hurt them and the lack of urgency at crucial moments. They have plenty of talent now, and a really good off season could really spike this team.
Who do you think all these talented guys are?

That's the whole point of the thread. We always hear "they're really talented", but who are they talking about? I think if you go through the entire roster and give an honest, no BS assessment, you won't be able to find 16 quality players to surround our 6 good/elite players with.

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The issue to me is not our quality players but the others. Schaub goes out for a quarter and RG looks lost. Pitts is out and Studdard is pretty bad. Same on other side when Chris White is in. Our running games is average or below regardless of who is playing. Busing should not be on team and Barber should exit right behind him. We have average corners that are propped up by the strong safety Pollard. We need to fill these holes in draft.
Propped up in run support, sure, but he is a serious liability in coverage.
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Old 12-07-2009   #15
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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Who do you think all these talented guys are?

That's the whole point of the thread. We always hear "they're really talented", but who are they talking about? I think if you go through the entire roster and give an honest, no BS assessment, you won't be able to find 16 quality players to surround our 6 good/elite players with.
from the Froggy one...

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=20
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With Bob Sanders and Marlin Jackson out for the season, and Dwight Freeney missing the contest with an injury, the Colts' defense started no one drafted higher than the third round. Big plays were made by Colts defensive starters Gary Brackett, Daniel Muir, Melvin Bullitt and Jacob Lacey, all of whom were undrafted free agents. Pierre Garçon, out of Division III Mount Union, caught a touchdown pass. Chad Simpson, undrafted out of Division I-AA Morgan State, scored a touchdown, breaking three tackles when Houston players tried to strip the ball. Robert Mathis, a low draft pick out of Division I-AA Alabama A&M, not only stripped Matt Schaub of the ball to set up the game-icing touchdown, he did so while being held by the Moo Cows' offensive line. I don't know what's in the water in Indiana, but it seems to turn unknowns into football players.
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Old 12-07-2009   #16
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

Simply put - We're talented enough to have a record better than 5-7 at this point (even accounting for injuries).
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Old 12-07-2009   #17
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

In their last 26 games (all 12 this year and the last 14 of last year), the Texans have been blown out twice--Ravens last year and the Jets this year. And you could make the argument that neither of those two games were true routs: we were down 19-13 heading into the fourth quarter against Baltimore and the Jet loss was only 24-7. All the other losses came in tight games. If this team had a talent deficiency, we'd be getting blown out much more often.

We may not be at the top of the talent chart at every position, but we are good enough across the board to play with any team in the league. What's sunk the season is the same thing that sunk us the previous two years: we just cannot beat our division rivals. To go 4-14 the last three years against the Jags, Tacks and Colts is terrible for a bad team. For a team that is 17-9 against everyone else over that span, it is unfathomable.
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Old 12-07-2009   #18
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

talented.....but not very disciplined
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Old 12-07-2009   #19
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

OK ... I'll play . To me you are either good enough to start for a contender or your not . Here's the guys I think are good enough / talented enough .

QB . Schaub
RB . Slaton as a situation back but need a bread and butter back .
FB . ? Leach ... to one dimensional but that's just me .
LT . Brown
LG . ?
C . ?
RG . ?
RT . Winston
Wr . Johnson / Walter
TE . Daniels

DE . Mario
DT . ?
DT . ?
DE . Smith .... he's been in a SB .
OLB . Cushing
MLB . Ryans
OLB . Diles
CB . Between Quinn , McCain , Dunta , Jack we may have one .
CB . See Above
SS . Pollard
FS . ?

Young up and comers who have a chance .
Caldwell , Barwin , Casey , Moulden , and Adibi . At least they would be claimed off waivers .
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Old 12-07-2009   #20
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Default Re: How talented are the Houston Texans

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And?

Who are the Texans quality+ players that make everyone say they are an incredibly talented team?

Some of the best players in the NFL were drafted late or not at all. I don't care if a guy is a street free agent who never played college football. Is he a quality player or not?
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