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Old 03-11-2005   #181
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Originally Posted by spence425
my only argument here is with your comment about his fumbles. he did have a rough stretch last year, but it wasn't nearly that big of an issue the year before. P.S.- look at tiki barber...maybe he just needs to work on his grip. dom is a spectacular all around player and brings a dimension to the passing game that less than half the teams in the league have. he can run and catch.

i say keep him. the best option might be to also bring in a hybrid back, a possible fullback/possible tailback to spell dom or for different situations.
I agree. I think that Dom is a good back. Not great by any means of the imagination. But where does it say you need a franchise back to win a superbowl? Yeah it helps, but there are 22 players on a team.

I kinda like finding the diamonds in the rough in round 4 anywho.
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Old 03-11-2005   #182
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Originally Posted by scourge
you guys are pathetic...

"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics... even if you win, you are still retarded."




And while I'm not choosing sides, there really are some serious homers here...
does everyone not argue on this board? people do it all the time to debate topics, yes stuff got out of control and it shouldnt have gone where it went, but that stuff happens, and make sure you know what homer means before you go and use it again... plus im sure there are more intelligent ways to get your point across then to use a word like homer
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Old 03-11-2005   #183
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but back to DD, Davis was a steal in the 4th, and so far has had a very good career. maybe we draft a running back later in the draft, but DD re emerged as a very good back at the end of last year, so the coaches probably have him on high regard, plus hollings i think will still work out
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Old 03-11-2005   #184
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The fact that teams scheme for us TO run the ball says all I need to know about Davis. He isn't a star. With the type of offense Capers likes to run, we need a star HB IMO.
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Old 03-11-2005   #185
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The "star" on Capers' 96 Panthers was Anthony Johnson. He rushed for 1100 yards. He's a no name now.
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Old 03-11-2005   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
The "star" on Capers' 96 Panthers was Anthony Johnson. He rushed for 1100 yards. He's a no name now.
But at the time, Panther fans probably were all in love with Anthony Johnson like most people on this board are in love with Davis.
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Old 03-11-2005   #187
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
The fact that teams scheme for us TO run the ball says all I need to know about Davis. He isn't a star. With the type of offense Capers likes to run, we need a star HB IMO.


The exact point I have been trying to make.
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Old 03-11-2005   #188
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There is a big difference between Johnson and Davis.

Davis repeated the feat. In a league like the NFL where a lot of players are often one season wonders, it's a good sign of a good player who can repeat their performance.

I'd also like to point out that Curtis Martin and Domanick Davis share very similar stats their first two years in the league [give or take 300 yards in rushing.... but then again DD wasn't starter all 16 games his rookie season....]

edit: I do acknowledge that it would be fine for the Texans to draft a compliment to DD though. Running backs have short careers, and good ones are not always an easy find. I certainly would not want DD to end up broken down like a Faulk.
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Old 03-11-2005   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
There is a big difference between Johnson and Davis.

Davis repeated the feat. In a league like the NFL where a lot of players are often one season wonders, it's a good sign of a good player who can repeat their performance.
The reason Johnson didnt repeat the feat was because they got another guy that was an upgrade over a 1000 yard rusher.

Fred Lane replaced Johnson the next year and although Lane didnt have as many yards (AJ- 1120 to FD- 809), Lane had a higher yard per carry average (4.4 to 3.7), a longer run (50 to 29) and a one more TD (7 to 6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
I'd also like to point out that Curtis Martin and Domanick Davis share very similar stats their first two years in the league [give or take 300 yards in rushing.... but then again DD wasn't starter all 16 games his rookie season....]
When Davis rushes for 1000 yards in 10 straight seasons (is it 10 or 11???), I'll acknowdelge this comment

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Originally Posted by gg no re
edit: I do acknowledge that it would be fine for the Texans to draft a compliment to DD though. Running backs have short careers, and good ones are not always an easy find. I certainly would not want DD to end up broken down like a Faulk.
That broken down Faulk still averaged 4 yards a carry last season and Faulk didnt have to wait to game 12 for a run longer then 10 yards. (And no one confuse the Rams o-line to the Broncos o-line)
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Old 03-11-2005   #190
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The reason Johnson didnt repeat the feat was because they got another guy that was an upgrade over a 1000 yard rusher.

Fred Lane replaced Johnson the next year and although Lane didnt have as many yards (AJ- 1120 to FD- 809), Lane had a higher yard per carry average (4.4 to 3.7), a longer run (50 to 29) and a one more TD (7 to 6)
By your argument, Steven Jackson is a better HB than LDT because of YPC.

That said, Fred Lane wasn't anything special..... he never broke 1000 yards, and only played 3 seasons. DD shows much more promise than this.

Quote:
That broken down Faulk still averaged 4 yards a carry last season and Faulk didnt have to wait to game 12 for a run longer then 10 yards. (And no one confuse the Rams o-line to the Broncos o-line)
The Rams were 99% pass 1% run. Of course Faulk will be able to run better!

Speaking of Faulk, he can also be a good example of a top HB whose initial 2 seasons could be compared to DD! In fact, I think he did much worse than DD, but look at how he's turned out!

Also, why do I have to keep saying that DD was playing through injuries in that stretch of games! You would be saying that a kid on crutches is terrible at a foot race when he is at a disadvantage.
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Old 03-11-2005   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
By your argument, Steven Jackson is a better HB than LDT because of YPC.
Well, some people argue that since Davis had as many TDs as LT he is as good so take what you want from my last comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
That said, Fred Lane wasn't anything special..... he never broke 1000 yards, and only played 3 seasons. DD shows much more promise than this.
But the point was that, although Anthony Johnson rushed for 1100 yards, Capers still felt that there should be an upgrade cause Johnson was solid but not a star

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
The Rams were 99% pass 1% run. Of course Faulk will be able to run better!
What???

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Speaking of Faulk, he can also be a good example of a top HB whose initial 2 seasons could be compared to DD! In fact, I think he did much worse than DD, but look at how he's turned out!
Faulk had 2360 rushing yards, 22 rushing TDs, 997 recieving yards with 4 TDs (7 receptions over 20 and 2 receptions over 40)

Davis had 2219 rushing yards, 21 rushing TDs, 939 receving yards with 1 TD (1 reception over 20 and none over 40)

Those stats are very similar exept for big plays, Faulk used to be able to score from anywhere on the field. Faulk had breakaway speed and moves on top of that


Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Also, why do I have to keep saying that DD was playing through injuries in that stretch of games! You would be saying that a kid on crutches is terrible at a foot race when he is at a disadvantage.
Can anyone point me out the plays Davis has been injured on??? All I see is a normal play, nothing funny going on and Davis is limping on the bench a couple minutes later. His injuries come from being worn down it seems to me.
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Old 03-11-2005   #192
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But the point was that, although Anthony Johnson rushed for 1100 yards, Capers still felt that there should be an upgrade cause Johnson was solid but not a star
And what an upgrade it was!!!! Lane did not last very long.

The Draft is always a crapshoot..... if you 'think' you can get an upgrade, more often than not, you would be wrong.

Could there be an upgrade over DD? Yes.

Will you always get good production over that upgrade? Almost never.

Point being, consistency is always better than gambling for an upgrade in the draft. Why, by your argument, Hollings should overtake DD for the starting RB..... after all, he was a starting college HB, was projected to be 1st round, and has better speed, right?

Quote:
What???
Let me explain myself better.

By my 99% 1% remark, I'm saying that it is obvious that the Rams will always pass the football.

Your defensive mindset should be, "Send 11 guys into coverage, because Martz is calling a pass."

Now, on plays where Martz has a bit of sanity, he will call a run play. If the defense thinks pass, and you call run, do the math.

Look at the Texans. We run more than we need to, and defenses can guess when we run with accuracy. [I can guess so many times when the Texans would run a draw on 3rd and long]

Quote:
Those stats are very similar exept for big plays, Faulk used to be able to score from anywhere on the field. Faulk had breakaway speed and moves on top of that
Let's not forget. Faulk plays for dome teams. Wouldn't that artificial turf have anything to do with his 'speed'?

I'm sure much could be learned from this year's Colts.

Quote:
Can anyone point me out the plays Davis has been injured on??? All I see is a normal play, nothing funny going on and Davis is limping on the bench a couple minutes later. His injuries come from being worn down it seems to me.
He's had an ankle sprain vs. the Chiefs, and a groin injury vs. the Titans.
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Old 03-11-2005   #193
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Originally Posted by THEFUTURE
does everyone not argue on this board? people do it all the time to debate topics, yes stuff got out of control and it shouldnt have gone where it went, but that stuff happens, and make sure you know what homer means before you go and use it again... plus im sure there are more intelligent ways to get your point across then to use a word like homer
Yes, people do argue, but for the most part we all get along here. We just have different opinions of which direction the team should head. You guys, on the other hand, had stooped to insults and talking about violence. And it seemed that most of it arose from some of you being offended for being a homer. That's not necessarily an insult, but it is what you appear to be.
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Old 03-11-2005   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
And what an upgrade it was!!!! Lane did not last very long.

The Draft is always a crapshoot..... if you 'think' you can get an upgrade, more often than not, you would be wrong.

Could there be an upgrade over DD? Yes.

Will you always get good production over that upgrade? Almost never.
A stat I am more intrested in then total yards is yards per carry cause a guy can get a 1000 yards but need 300 carries to do it. So in that case, per carry wise Fred Lane averaged more yards, TDs and big plays than Anthony Thomas ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Point being, consistency is always better than gambling for an upgrade in the draft. Why, by your argument, Hollings should overtake DD for the starting RB..... after all, he was a starting college HB, was projected to be 1st round, and has better speed, right?
No I am not saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Let me explain myself better.

By my 99% 1% remark, I'm saying that it is obvious that the Rams will always pass the football.

Your defensive mindset should be, "Send 11 guys into coverage, because Martz is calling a pass."

Now, on plays where Martz has a bit of sanity, he will call a run play. If the defense thinks pass, and you call run, do the math.
I guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Look at the Texans. We run more than we need to, and defenses can guess when we run with accuracy. [I can guess so many times when the Texans would run a draw on 3rd and long]
Thats wrong, look at the stats we passed more than we ran on average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
Let's not forget. Faulk plays for dome teams. Wouldn't that artificial turf have anything to do with his 'speed'?

I'm sure much could be learned from this year's Colts.
Faulk was deadly no matter the conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg no re
He's had an ankle sprain vs. the Chiefs, and a groin injury vs. the Titans.
Yeah, I know he got hurt but it wasnt like you saw the play he got hurt on. You knew when McAllister got hurt cause his ankle almost broke but you never saw the exact play where Davis got hurt. You just saw him a couple of minutes later limping on the sideline.
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Old 03-11-2005   #195
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big difference in the rams offense and the Texans..

Teams schemed against the pass when they played the rams and Faulk would hurt them for that

Teams scheme against the pass when they play us because 1) AJ will hurt them if they don't and 2) DD doesn't hurt them when he gets 7 passes and 15 runs.. That means the ball is out of AJ's hands

I like DD and he does a great job with the talent he has,but we do need an upgrade.

I would think if you put a list together of the top runningbacks DD would be ranked 10-15 IMO. which isn't bad,but above average.
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Old 03-11-2005   #196
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
Faulk had 2360 rushing yards, 22 rushing TDs, 997 recieving yards with 4 TDs (7 receptions over 20 and 2 receptions over 40)

Davis had 2219 rushing yards, 21 rushing TDs, 939 receving yards with 1 TD (1 reception over 20 and none over 40)

Those stats are very similar exept for big plays, Faulk used to be able to score from anywhere on the field. Faulk had breakaway speed and moves on top of that
Just to fill in a little more--Faulks' yards came on 603 attempts for an average of 3.9 ypc. Davis has 540 attempts and an average of 4.1 ypc. Faulks' longest runs of his 1st two years were 52 and 40. Davis' longest runs were 51 and 44. Something else to note--Faulk never averaged over 4.1 ypc in a season until he left Indy (Davis averaged 4.3 ypc last year). His running in Indy did not impress them so much that they did not let him go. Of course then in St. Louis he has three years of at least 5.3 ypc. Was Marshall Faulk just a 3rd down back in the wrong role, not a franchise back, etc. in Indy? Did his talent suddenly explode in his 6th year in the league? Of course not--he went from a team where his full potential was not displayed to one where it was.

It is much harder to do, but the only fair way to judge a back is how is he doing with what he is given. Just a blind look at the stats is not an accurate reflection of ability (injuries are a whole nuther issue). There should be zero argument that DD has had below average blocking for his 1st two years. To see how that affects even great backs compare Clinton Portis in Denver and in Washington or compare LaDainian Tomlinson 2003 to 2004 where he dropped 1.4 ypc from his average as the OL entirely changed and was better at pass protection than run blocking. The blocking doesn't just affect ypc, it affects big plays as well. Clinton Portis 24 runs over 20 yards in two years with the Broncos vs. 5 last season with the Skins. LaDainian Tomlinson 2002--12 runs over 20 with a long of 76, 2003--12 runs over 20 with a long of 73, 2004--6 runs over 20 with a long of 42. All the pieces on the O have to work together and we will never know or see the potential of DD, Carr or AJ until the OL can do at least an average NFL job of both run blocking and pass blocking.
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Old 03-11-2005   #197
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Absoulutly CORRECT Cak. Well done.
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Old 03-11-2005   #198
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Just to fill in a little more--Faulks' yards came on 603 attempts for an average of 3.9 ypc. Davis has 540 attempts and an average of 4.1 ypc. Faulks' longest runs of his 1st two years were 52 and 40. Davis' longest runs were 51 and 44. Something else to note--Faulk never averaged over 4.1 ypc in a season until he left Indy (Davis averaged 4.3 ypc last year). His running in Indy did not impress them so much that they did not let him go. Of course then in St. Louis he has three years of at least 5.3 ypc. Was Marshall Faulk just a 3rd down back in the wrong role, not a franchise back, etc. in Indy? Did his talent suddenly explode in his 6th year in the league? Of course not--he went from a team where his full potential was not displayed to one where it was.

It is much harder to do, but the only fair way to judge a back is how is he doing with what he is given. Just a blind look at the stats is not an accurate reflection of ability (injuries are a whole nuther issue). There should be zero argument that DD has had below average blocking for his 1st two years. To see how that affects even great backs compare Clinton Portis in Denver and in Washington or compare LaDainian Tomlinson 2003 to 2004 where he dropped 1.4 ypc from his average as the OL entirely changed and was better at pass protection than run blocking. The blocking doesn't just affect ypc, it affects big plays as well. Clinton Portis 24 runs over 20 yards in two years with the Broncos vs. 5 last season with the Skins. LaDainian Tomlinson 2002--12 runs over 20 with a long of 76, 2003--12 runs over 20 with a long of 73, 2004--6 runs over 20 with a long of 42. All the pieces on the O have to work together and we will never know or see the potential of DD, Carr or AJ until the OL can do at least an average NFL job of both run blocking and pass blocking.
Man Cak that should shut em up !!! Well done if i may say so myself
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Old 03-11-2005   #199
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DD isn't an elite back, but he isn't a terrible one either. He is a serviceable starter. I don't see what the problem in that is.
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Old 03-11-2005   #200
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ok Cak i was wrong it didnt shut em up . Theres just no convincing some of these people
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