OL Dispute

[TimeKiller]

So here's my take. I tried to remain as simple as possible because I have no idea how the system is supposed to work. My theory is in either run or pass your job, as a blocker, is to block. Did you hold a block on this play, yes or no? I tried to let my preconceived notions go as best I could, I think I did pretty well. Here's how my count will work: out of 46 Pass plays total, 24 run plays total how many positives I saw from each player with a highlight on Goalline attempts (1 pass, 4 runs).

Counts are in order: Pass plays, Run plays, Goaline passes, Goalline runs

Brown scored 37/46, 18/24, 1/1, 1/4
Studdard scored 40/46, 10/24, 1/1, 1/4
Myers scored 40/46, 9/24, 1/1, 1/4
White scored 19/25, 5/11, 1/1, 0/1
Caldwell scored 19/22, 9/13, 0/0, 1/3
Winston scored 42/46, 13/24, 1/1, 2/4

I eagerly await any comments!

[TexCanada]

This shows what many of us already suspected : we have good pass-blocking and extremely poor run-blocking. Interesting to see in numbers though, thanks for that.

[Mr. White]

Goes to show how important Chester Pitts is to the O Line.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by TexCanada

This shows what many of us already suspected : we have good pass-blocking and extremely poor run-blocking. Interesting to see in numbers though, thanks for that.

Generally speaking, you are correct but I hoped to get more of an opinion on individuals. Namely interior players but anyone is up for grabs here. Even comments on non OL who run block like, for example Dreesen shows up more often than not as a plus in the run-blocking column. Did against the Colts anyway. Truth be told, VLeach was nearly invisible, can't have that from a run-blocking FB.

I want to let a few comments roll in before I spill the rest of my guts so let's have it!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

So here's my take.
Counts are in order: Pass plays, Run plays, Goaline passes, Goalline runs

Brown scored 37/46, 18/24, 1/1, 1/4
Studdard scored 40/46, 10/24, 1/1, 1/4
Myers scored 40/46, 9/24, 1/1, 1/4
White scored 19/25, 5/11, 1/1, 0/1
Caldwell scored 19/22, 9/13, 0/0, 1/3
Winston scored 42/46, 13/24, 1/1, 2/4

I eagerly await any comments!

I'm not going to dispute your numbers. According to which, Winston looks like our best overall lineman.

Myers is our worse.

[MojoMan]

Caldwell apparently looked pretty strong as well.

[Wolf]

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw this smiley .. it reminds me of our goal line /short yardage offense

[TimeKiller]

I know it's just one game but I feel like the results reflect most of my previous opinions, so here's my individual takes:
Brown: For a 2nd year LT to have a decent game against a probowl veteran DE, much less the premier speed rusher in the league is quite nice. Save the first play, a sack largely due to Schaub's indecision, he held Freeney in check almost the whole game. One thing I noticed though is that his cut-blocking is awful, awful, awful. He's got plenty of years to figure it out though.

Studdard: Right now, he's a back up. I consider pass blocking easier than run blocking but he holds his 5th of the pocket quite well in pass pro. Run blocking is an adventure, not much can be aimed in his direction with any successful expectations.

Myers: Very similar to Studdard except I will relenquish this: He's the best C we have right now. I don't believe anyone else can properly make the calls a C has to make and that's why he's keeping his job and will throughout this year. One shattered notion of mine is that he's way better in pass pro than I've given him credit for. However, I don't see how you can watch the 2nd INT and not think it was anyone elses fault for letting Brackett get to Schaub (who clearly didn't see him coming). In space, he seems like he can't find the right guy to block and ends a lot of plays not having blocked a single blue hat.

White-He's a backup getting spot starts. Nothing special. Good backup interior guy to have as depth, clearly it's paying off right now.

Caldwell-WILL be starting either by the end of the year or next year. Guy is to good in the run game. I don't think it will be at C either, I think his bulk goes quite nicely at RG and when he gets a guy blocked, it's over. However, when he whiffs my god does he whiff. Rookie. And not like Brian Cushing is a rookie, like a regular rookie.

Winston-My biggest shattering of preconceived notions was Winston's pass AND run games. I would've pretty well guessed completely opposite results. His pass pro was excellent all day and even though he wasn't spectacular in the run game he's clearly the most aggressive OL out there and I think it might make up for it.

[nunusguy]

FWIW (which is a lot since he's the HC), Kubiak said on 610 yesterday that Caldwell will probably comptete for a starting job "next year" and right now he's behind White at RG in terms of his progress.

[TimeKiller]

Maybe he's behind but he's clearly on an elevator going to a higher floor.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

I know it's just one game but I feel like the results reflect most of my previous opinions, so here's my individual takes:
Brown: For a 2nd year LT to have a decent game against a probowl veteran DE, much less the premier speed rusher in the league is quite nice. Save the first play, a sack largely due to Schaub's indecision, he held Freeney in check almost the whole game. One thing I noticed though is that his cut-blocking is awful, awful, awful. He's got plenty of years to figure it out though.

Studdard: Right now, he's a back up. I consider pass blocking easier than run blocking but he holds his 5th of the pocket quite well in pass pro. Run blocking is an adventure, not much can be aimed in his direction with any successful expectations.

Myers: Very similar to Studdard except I will relenquish this: He's the best C we have right now. I don't believe anyone else can properly make the calls a C has to make and that's why he's keeping his job and will throughout this year. One shattered notion of mine is that he's way better in pass pro than I've given him credit for. However, I don't see how you can watch the 2nd INT and not think it was anyone elses fault for letting Brackett get to Schaub (who clearly didn't see him coming). In space, he seems like he can't find the right guy to block and ends a lot of plays not having blocked a single blue hat.

White-He's a backup getting spot starts. Nothing special. Good backup interior guy to have as depth, clearly it's paying off right now.

Caldwell-WILL be starting either by the end of the year or next year. Guy is to good in the run game. I don't think it will be at C either, I think his bulk goes quite nicely at RG and when he gets a guy blocked, it's over. However, when he whiffs my god does he whiff. Rookie. And not like Brian Cushing is a rookie, like a regular rookie.

Winston-My biggest shattering of preconceived notions was Winston's pass AND run games. I would've pretty well guessed completely opposite results. His pass pro was excellent all day and even though he wasn't spectacular in the run game he's clearly the most aggressive OL out there and I think it might make up for it.

I think it is interesting that Caldwell was drafted (at least according to what I read on this MB) for skills as a center. Even if Brisiel returns as guard, most are projecting Caldwell as the starting right guard, not the center. I am ok with that but have projected Myers moving to RG with Caldwell and his bulk/strength solidifying the middle. Do realize the center does more than hike the ball. I do have Thomas Austin on my board in 4th and Center/ LG/T Eric Olsen in 5th. Both should bolster the line.

LT: I am satisfied that Brown is our anchor but what happens if he gets injured? Uh, oh.

We have to keep in mind that the ZBS uses exactly the type players we have on Oline. Only Pitts was from the pre-ZBS shift.Our guys are not the pop the defense in the mouth and drive them back for 4-5 yards. They create a crack for about 1-2 seconds and hope the RB of the moment can accelrate through. Sometimes it works spectacularly and sometimes it does not (especially within 10 yards). All the calls for bigger olinemen is amusing unless you expect Kubes to change the offense once again. I don't.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by badboy

I think it is interesting that Caldwell was drafted (at least according to what I read on this MB) for skills as a center. Even if Brisiel returns as guard, most are projecting Caldwell as the starting right guard, not the center. I am ok with that but have projected Myers moving to RG with Caldwell and his bulk/strength solidifying the middle. Do realize the center does more than hike the ball. I do have Thomas Austin on my board in 4th and Center/ LG/T Eric Olsen in 5th. Both should bolster the line.

I just like Caldwell's sheer power at guard, either one really. Honestly I feel Studdard is behind both White and Caldwell, maybe they should start rotating all 3?

Myers is not good at run blocking, I feel what's keeping him on the line is his brains as a C. As a G he's just....Kasey Studdard.

LT: I am satisfied that Brown is our anchor but what happens if he gets injured? Uh, oh.

Mmm hmmm. We've been keeping Butler around for a reason I guess.

We have to keep in mind that the ZBS uses exactly the type players we have on Oline. Only Pitts was from the pre-ZBS shift.Our guys are not the pop the defense in the mouth and drive them back for 4-5 yards. They create a crack for about 1-2 seconds and hope the RB of the moment can accelrate through. Sometimes it works spectacularly and sometimes it does not (especially within 10 yards). All the calls for bigger olinemen is amusing unless you expect Kubes to change the offense once again. I don't.

Bigger isn't exactly what I was saying....BETTER is more like it. I find no coincidence in Duane Brown being our highest drafted lineman and being our best lineman. For even less coincidental action: he's also the biggest and strongest. 5 Duane Browns would be the most disgusting OL ever. 5 Kasey Studdards wouldn't push an avalanche down a hill.

I don't expect Kubiak to change his system...other than drawing up some newer running plays for goalline runs. Or you know, just hucking it up to Andre. Whatever, just call that Double TE I form where Dreesen goes in motion and doubles back before *insert anyone here* runs straight into the teeth of a defense that knows exactly what is coming.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

I just like Caldwell's sheer power at guard, either one really. Honestly I feel Studdard is behind both White and Caldwell, maybe they should start rotating all 3?

Myers is not good at run blocking, I feel what's keeping him on the line is his brains as a C. As a G he's just....Kasey Studdard.

Mmm hmmm. We've been keeping Butler around for a reason I guess.


Bigger isn't exactly what I was saying....BETTER is more like it. I find no coincidence in Duane Brown being our highest drafted lineman and being our best lineman. For even less coincidental action: he's also the biggest and strongest. 5 Duane Browns would be the most disgusting OL ever. 5 Kasey Studdards wouldn't push an avalanche down a hill.

I don't expect Kubiak to change his system...other than drawing up some newer running plays for goalline runs. Or you know, just hucking it up to Andre. Whatever, just call that Double TE I form where Dreesen goes in motion and doubles back before *insert anyone here* runs straight into the teeth of a defense that knows exactly what is coming.

We don't run much to the right, so I'd rather have him at center but agree with you on Myers. None of our guys are good run blockers yet the heat is always on Myers.

I have no eval of Butler as I can not remember seeing him on a play this year.

I think Kubiac's philosophy about getting RBs later in the draft also applies to Gibbs' view on linemen. Well, the one on RB's definitley needs to change, we need only to look at Alex Gibbs if the Oline is not what we want. If you want to draft a CB and then better G/C in 2Nd and 3rd, I am ok with that just don't see it happening.

What new running plays? I thought we had tried to run over around and between every defensive position with every O back we have including FB and QB. I am almost ready to start giving the D backs a chance. Can't be much worse.