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Old 11-09-2009   #1
DerekLee1
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Default Refs blew the call

About Ryan Moats' fumble. Forget about not calling a quick play at the 2-minute warning. There wasn't a single person in that stadium that thought that was a fumble until the TV timeout at the 2-minute warning and everyone got to look at it again. (They should totally change that rule, by the way. A TV timeout should NOT give teams a chance to review a call and throw a red flag. What BS that is. But I digress.) This thread is about the call from a RULES perspective only, not about the game.

There's no doubt that Moats fumbled the ball before he hit the ground. However, the defense player that tackled him was out of bounds when Moats lost control. Therefore, the players should be ruled out of bounds when the ball was fumbled. Texans retain possession.

On replay with sound, the whistle was blown BEFORE the ball was recovered. Play is dead, Texans retain possession.

IF you say that he fumbled before anyone went out of bounds, then there's the question of the Colts player that WAS out of bounds and came back in to pick up the loose ball. I don't know whether or not an OOB player can come back in to recover a loose ball. Even the refs had to talk that over. Let's assume they ARE allowed to. The explanation by the referee was ridiculous. He claimed that the player did NOT re-establish himself in the field of play, and therefore ILLEGALLY touched the ball while it was sitting on the goal line. If you illegally touch a ball, it should automatically be ruled DEAD. Texans retain possession.

Finally, if you allow the fact that the tackling player was NOT out of bounds and that the recovering player did NOT illegally touch the ball, then that means Moats DID fumble and the recovering player LEGALLY picked up the fumble. THEN HE STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS AT THE SIX INCH LINE!!!! Colts should get possession at the six-inch line.

I was just blown AWAY at the final outcome of the replay review. Not only did they wrongly award the Colts the ball, but THEY GAVE THEM A TOUCHBACK!!

Completely blown call, even with a long replay review. I can't wait to see what officiating VP Mike Pereira has to say about this one on NFL Total Access this week.
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My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
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Old 11-09-2009   #2
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
About Ryan Moats' fumble. Forget about not calling a quick play at the 2-minute warning. There wasn't a single person in that stadium that thought that was a fumble until the TV timeout at the 2-minute warning and everyone got to look at it again. (They should totally change that rule, by the way. A TV timeout should NOT give teams a chance to review a call and throw a red flag. What BS that is. But I digress.) This thread is about the call from a RULES perspective only, not about the game.

There's no doubt that Moats fumbled the ball before he hit the ground. However, the defense player that tackled him was out of bounds when Moats lost control. Therefore, the players should be ruled out of bounds when the ball was fumbled. Texans retain possession.

IF you say that he fumbled before anyone went out of bounds, then there's the question of the Colts player that WAS out of bounds and came back in to pick up the loose ball. I don't know whether or not an OOB player can come back in to recover a loose ball. Even the refs had to talk that over. Let's assume they ARE allowed to. The explanation by the referee was ridiculous. He claimed that the player did NOT re-establish himself in the field of play, and therefore ILLEGALLY touched the ball while it was sitting on the goal line. If you illegally touch a ball, it should automatically be ruled DEAD. Texans retain possession.

Finally, if you allow the fact that the tackling player was NOT out of bounds and that the recovering player did NOT illegally touch the ball, then that means Moats DID fumble and the recovering player LEGALLY picked up the fumble. THEN HE STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS AT THE SIX INCH LINE!!!! Colts should get possession at the six-inch line.

I was just blown AWAY at the final outcome of the replay review. Not only did they wrongly award the Colts the ball, but THEY GAVE THEM A TOUCHBACK!!

Completely blown call, even with a long replay review. I can't wait to see what officiating VP Mike Pereira has to say about this one on NFL Total Access this week.



The call was right...the refs made the right call...the only thing that i put into question is i thought if u fumble, but ruled down and the ball is blown dead before anyone picks it up it is not a challangeable play?
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Old 11-09-2009   #3
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by BrandonLwowski View Post
The call was right...the refs made the right call...the only thing that i put into question is i thought if u fumble, but ruled down and the ball is blown dead before anyone picks it up it is not a challangeable play?
I had forgotten that point, but added it in my edit. No way did the refs get that call right. Per his explanation, the ball was touched illegally. That's a dead ball. If it was touched legally, then he picked it up and ran it six inches, then out of bounds. That call was NOT correct.
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My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
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Old 11-09-2009   #4
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66740

Already discussed.
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Old 11-09-2009   #5
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by DerekLee1 View Post
About Ryan Moats' fumble. Forget about not calling a quick play at the 2-minute warning. There wasn't a single person in that stadium that thought that was a fumble until the TV timeout at the 2-minute warning and everyone got to look at it again. (They should totally change that rule, by the way. A TV timeout should NOT give teams a chance to review a call and throw a red flag. What BS that is. But I digress.) This thread is about the call from a RULES perspective only, not about the game.

There's no doubt that Moats fumbled the ball before he hit the ground. However, the defense player that tackled him was out of bounds when Moats lost control. Therefore, the players should be ruled out of bounds when the ball was fumbled. Texans retain possession.

On replay with sound, the whistle was blown BEFORE the ball was recovered. Play is dead, Texans retain possession.

IF you say that he fumbled before anyone went out of bounds, then there's the question of the Colts player that WAS out of bounds and came back in to pick up the loose ball. I don't know whether or not an OOB player can come back in to recover a loose ball. Even the refs had to talk that over. Let's assume they ARE allowed to. The explanation by the referee was ridiculous. He claimed that the player did NOT re-establish himself in the field of play, and therefore ILLEGALLY touched the ball while it was sitting on the goal line. If you illegally touch a ball, it should automatically be ruled DEAD. Texans retain possession.

Finally, if you allow the fact that the tackling player was NOT out of bounds and that the recovering player did NOT illegally touch the ball, then that means Moats DID fumble and the recovering player LEGALLY picked up the fumble. THEN HE STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS AT THE SIX INCH LINE!!!! Colts should get possession at the six-inch line.

I was just blown AWAY at the final outcome of the replay review. Not only did they wrongly award the Colts the ball, but THEY GAVE THEM A TOUCHBACK!!

Completely blown call, even with a long replay review. I can't wait to see what officiating VP Mike Pereira has to say about this one on NFL Total Access this week.
It won't be on there. Don't even look for it.
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Old 11-09-2009   #6
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

I thought the Chargers/Broncos game in week 2 of last season established that if the whistle was blown, the play was dead. Cutler lost the ball and it was ruled (incorrectly) as an incomplete pass instead of a fumble, but the whistle blew the play dead and the recovery by the Chargers was not legal cause the play was over. I believe that you are correct, and they ruled that the challege would do no good because the play had been whistled dead.

Therefor, if the whistle was blown before the Colts picked up the ball, the ruling on the field would have to stand. HOWEVER, I do believe this was looked at in the offseason so they could make a change to it, I just do not remember if any change was made and if it was, what change was made.
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Old 11-09-2009   #7
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by dinkatoid View Post
I thought the Chargers/Broncos game in week 2 of last season established that if the whistle was blown, the play was dead. Cutler lost the ball and it was ruled (incorrectly) as an incomplete pass instead of a fumble, but the whistle blew the play dead and the recovery by the Chargers was not legal cause the play was over. I believe that you are correct, and they ruled that the challege would do no good because the play had been whistled dead.

Therefor, if the whistle was blown before the Colts picked up the ball, the ruling on the field would have to stand. HOWEVER, I do believe this was looked at in the offseason so they could make a change to it, I just do not remember if any change was made and if it was, what change was made.
They changed the rule.
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Old 11-09-2009   #8
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

what did they change the rule to?
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Old 11-09-2009   #9
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by GlassHalfFull View Post
that thread turned into the ref calls in general, and ONLY the fact that he was out of bounds. I was expanding it. Plus that thread didn't show up for some reason when I first posted.
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My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
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Old 11-09-2009   #10
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

Nothing changes yesterdays outcome. I wish everyone would just drop it. It's just undignified to keep complaining about this. I don't see a bunch of threads appear when a blown call benefits us (and I wouldn't expect to) so come on guys, take your medicine.
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Old 11-09-2009   #11
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

It wasn't a tv timeout, it was the 2 minute warning
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Old 11-09-2009   #12
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Nothing changes yesterdays outcome. I wish everyone would just drop it. It's just undignified to keep complaining about this. I don't see a bunch of threads appear when a blown call benefits us (and I wouldn't expect to) so come on guys, take your medicine.
This thread isn't to complain about the call's impact on the game. We recovered from it and took the lead, so I'm over it. It's about questioning what the game rules are and how this call came about. Facts here, not opinion.
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My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
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Old 11-09-2009   #13
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

The refs got the call right, blame Moats for fumbling the ball not the refs.
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Old 11-09-2009   #14
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

Just to clarify, the call was right. The fumble was legit. The player out of bounds jumped back in and re-established his position in bounds...that is something the ref didn't explain right. However, when he touched it the ball had already touched the goalline, thus making it a touchback...whether you agree he wa sin illegally, legally, etc.
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Old 11-09-2009   #15
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Just to clarify, the call was right. The fumble was legit. The player out of bounds jumped back in and re-established his position in bounds...that is something the ref didn't explain right. However, when he touched it the ball had already touched the goalline, thus making it a touchback...whether you agree he wa sin illegally, legally, etc.
What about Bethea touching the ball while he was laying out of bounds. The ball should have been dead at that point with possession retained by the offense. So, no it was not a correct call. The refs totally blew it and a couple of others that extended Colt drives.

Having said that, if Schaub and the O actually bothered to show up for the first 1/3 of the game, we win going away. This isn't about making excuses but getting the facts straight and clearly that had a major impact on the game.
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Old 11-09-2009   #16
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
Just to clarify, the call was right. The fumble was legit. The player out of bounds jumped back in and re-established his position in bounds...that is something the ref didn't explain right. However, when he touched it the ball had already touched the goalline, thus making it a touchback...whether you agree he wa sin illegally, legally, etc.
NO. If he legally touched the ball, then he ran it out of the end zone and out of bounds at the 6-inch line. The call was that he ILLEGALLY touched the ball while it was in the end zone, making it a touchback. What the ref is saying is that the illegal touch is the same thing as the defense knocking the ball out of bounds in the end zone. That, by rule, WOULD be a change of possession and a touchback. To me, that's still a bad rule as well. If a defensive player bats a ball out of bounds anywhere else on the field, it's not a change of possession. You have to establish possession in the field of play for there to be a turnover.

If the touch was illegal, it should have immediately been a dead ball. That is NOT the same thing as batting the ball out of bounds.

Blown call any way you look at it.
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My son and I toss the old pigskin around pretty much everyday. He says I throw like a girl and when he drops it, I tell him he catches like Jacoby Jones. He does not find it as funny as I do.
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Old 11-09-2009   #17
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
What about Bethea touching the ball while he was laying out of bounds. The ball should have been dead at that point with possession retained by the offense. So, no it was not a correct call. The refs totally blew it and a couple of others that extended Colt drives.
Having said that, if Schaub and the O actually bothered to show up for the first 1/3 of the game, we win going away. This isn't about making excuses but getting the facts straight and clearly that had a major impact on the game.
The ball, by replay, was already coming out before they got to the sideline and there is no way to tell if they were out when it flung into the field of play. It rolled off the body. There is no one on 610, 1560..anywhere that is disputing that it was the right call. LZ went through it this morning and by the rules it was a legit call. With Moats on top of the other player he was effectively still in play. This pic in this article shows it coming out as the start going out and explains it. I mean even Texans players aren't disputing it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...changed-a-game



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NO. If he legally touched the ball, then he ran it out of the end zone and out of bounds at the 6-inch line. The call was that he ILLEGALLY touched the ball while it was in the end zone, making it a touchback. What the ref is saying is that the illegal touch is the same thing as the defense knocking the ball out of bounds in the end zone. That, by rule, WOULD be a change of possession and a touchback. To me, that's still a bad rule as well. If a defensive player bats a ball out of bounds anywhere else on the field, it's not a change of possession. You have to establish possession in the field of play for there to be a turnover.

If the touch was illegal, it should have immediately been a dead ball. That is NOT the same thing as batting the ball out of bounds.

Blown call any way you look at it.
No, it was Colts ball no matter how you look at it.
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Last edited by HoustonFrog; 11-09-2009 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-09-2009   #18
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
The ball, by replay, was already coming out before they got to the sideline and there is no way to tell if they were out when it flung into the field of play. It rolled off the body. There is no one on 610, 1560..anywhere that is disputing that it was the right call. LZ went through it this morning and by the rules it was a legit call. With Moats on top of the other player he was effectively still in play. This pic in this article shows it coming out as the start going out and explains it. I mean even Texans players aren't disputing it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...changed-a-game

look at the picture. the ball is coming out. it touches a player who is out of bounds. that means its a dead ball. it's really pretty simple. bethea is out of bounds and touching a loose ball. play is dead.
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Old 11-09-2009   #19
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
The ball, by replay, was already coming out before they got to the sideline and there is no way to tell if they were out when it flung into the field of play. It rolled off the body. There is no one on 610, 1560..anywhere that is disputing that it was the right call. LZ went through it this morning and by the rules it was a legit call. With Moats on top of the other player he was effectively still in play. This pic in this article shows it coming out as the start going out and explains it. I mean even Texans players aren't disputing it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...changed-a-game

They should've given the Colts the ball inside the one. That was a highly questionable call to call it a touchback and it looked like the referee was really enjoying himself. Both of the player's feet landed at basically the same time. Regardless, the team overcame that call as well. Pollard's interception led to a FG before half.
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Old 11-09-2009   #20
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Default Re: Refs blew the call

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth View Post
look at the picture. the ball is coming out. it touches a player who is out of bounds. that means its a dead ball. it's really pretty simple. bethea is out of bounds and touching a loose ball. play is dead.
He isn't out of bounds in the pic...he is lying right before the line and you can't see his legs. I'm wondering how every fan complaining about the call KNOWS it was a wrong call yet the Texans players and people who talk/parse this for a living can't see anything wrong with it. These are bang/bang plays that even with replay are hard to go through. I can see a small debate on where it should be marked but even that has been explained. I thought the fumble was legit. Going with what I've said in the past..you don't have to blame others if you don't put yourself in the position to have others look at it. Just hold onto the ball.
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