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Old 10-15-2009   #1
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Default PFF our offensive line..... help.

Goatcheese pointed me to this site, but I can't make sense of what it's telling me. I may very well may not want to believe what it's saying.... but that's a different story.

What do these numbers tell us about our offensive line.

Quote:
Pos. Name Total Run Pass Run Block Pass Block Overall Pass Rush Pass Block Screen Block Run Block Penalty # of Pen QB Sk QB Ht QB Pr
-33.1 19.5 -8.2 -2.2 6.0 -36.2 -12.0 11-1 9 17 34
OL Chris Myers 328 0 0 128 200 -2.7 1.4 1.5 -4.6 -1.0 1-0 0 1 4
OL Mike Brisiel 328 0 0 128 200 -0.6 1.7 1.0 -1.3 -2.0 1-0 1 0 6
OL Eric Winston 328 0 0 128 200 -4.3 -1.7 0.5 -2.1 -1.0 1-0 2 4 9
OL Kasey Studdard 228 0 0 96 132 -9.0 -5.4 1.0 -4.6 0.0 0-0 1 2 7
OL Chester Pitts 83 0 0 26 57 0.5 2.2 0.0 -0.7 -1.0 1-0 0 0 0
OL Chris L. White 17 0 0 6 11 -1.6 0.4 0.0 -2.0 0.0 0-0 0 0 0
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Old 10-15-2009   #2
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

bunch of negative total scores for a team that scores points the way we do. looks like a bunch of stats that say what we already know. we cant run but we are very good at passing.
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Old 10-15-2009   #3
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Is there any kind of science to how they come up with those numbers?
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Old 10-15-2009   #4
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Is there any kind of science to how they come up with those numbers?
No.

They use a play by play rating system that awards from -2 to +2 to each play based on the individual's performance on that play. -2 is a one in a thousand bad play, 0 is an average play, and +2 is a one in a thousand good play.

I don't like their scoring system because a player could have 50 average plays in a game, then have one embarrassing screw up and get slapped with a -2 as if they stunk it up the whole game. I just use them for their stat tracking, and form my own opinion based on that and watching the games.
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Old 10-15-2009   #5
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

It tells you that if you look for the 2008 stats, Myers was the best overall O-linemen that we had.

He ranked #12 among Centers in the league who started a majority number of games last year.

And he ranked #6 this year among Centers who started all 5 games;
#19 among those who started at least 4 games this year.
(Since I don't know which teams had the early bye-week, I just count them all.)
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Old 10-15-2009   #6
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

There's a lot there that is reflective of what we already knew. For example, Owen Daniels has done great in the passing game but has struggled run blocking. Kasey Studdard sucks at both pass and run blocking. And while Myers has done ok pass blocking he is getting owned in run blocking. The more worrying numbers are from Winston who is struggling in both facets of the game. On the plus side, it's very encouraging how much better Brown has gotten even though he could improve his run blocking even more.
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Old 10-16-2009   #7
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
No.

They use a play by play rating system that awards from -2 to +2 to each play based on the individual's performance on that play. -2 is a one in a thousand bad play, 0 is an average play, and +2 is a one in a thousand good play.

I don't like their scoring system because a player could have 50 average plays in a game, then have one embarrassing screw up and get slapped with a -2 as if they stunk it up the whole game. I just use them for their stat tracking, and form my own opinion based on that and watching the games.
Thanks for that explanation.
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Old 10-16-2009   #8
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It tells you that if you look for the 2008 stats, Myers was the best overall O-linemen that we had.

He ranked #12 among Centers in the league who started a majority number of games last year.

And he ranked #6 this year among Centers who started all 5 games;
#19 among those who started at least 4 games this year.
(Since I don't know which teams had the early bye-week, I just count them all.)
So then someone objectively looking at this game has ranked Myers as one of our better OL men, going back through last season?

hmmmm

& among the worse, you have.... Eric Winston & Kasey Studdurd for this year, and

OMG, for 2008, their stats show Myers as our best Lineman overall, and he & Briesel owned in the running game. Pitts is/was avg at best, & our biggest liability in the run game.


Just like I've been saying... wow.

It's nice to stumble on data that validates your opinion.
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Old 10-16-2009   #9
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
...

OMG, for 2008, their stats show ... Pitts is/was avg at best, & our biggest liability in the run game.

Houston fans want to win, I get that. But they "say" they also want an organization that takes care of their stars...... key players who've helped this organization accomplish what little it has accomplished so far.

But you give David Carr $8 million and another year..... they *****, they gripe.... I know I was one of them.

You franchise Dunta.... something his play on the field has never warranted..... they *****... again, that was me.

You allow an avg at best "couldn't play LT on a bad team switched to guard and is avg there" guy start, even though your best friends son is itching to play...... and they call for your head...... they want you fired.

& it hasn't even been 4 years yet.

Gotta love Houston fans.
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Old 10-16-2009   #10
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Ive been dissapointed in Winston this year, and I'm 'glad' that the stats kinda point in the same direction.

Dont know what is up with him, he seems unable to stop much.
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Old 10-16-2009   #11
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Brown has either given up a sack or nothing. He has 0 QB pressures. I guess thats what happens when you play the blindside
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Old 10-16-2009   #12
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So then someone objectively looking at this game has ranked Myers as one of our better OL men, going back through last season?

hmmmm

& among the worse, you have.... Eric Winston & Kasey Studdurd for this year, and

OMG, for 2008, their stats show Myers as our best Lineman overall, and he & Briesel owned in the running game. Pitts is/was avg at best, & our biggest liability in the run game.


Just like I've been saying... wow.

It's nice to stumble on data that validates your opinion.
By looking at the little chart, Myers is right there with Studdard being the worst in the running game. Which would validate my opinion....if I wanted to rely on some chart.

I'd rather watch the game myself and form an opinion
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Old 10-16-2009   #13
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.p...type=a&stats=o

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.p...type=a&stats=o

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.p...type=a&stats=o

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.p...type=a&stats=o

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.p...type=a&stats=o
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Old 10-16-2009   #14
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

We have signed on to a ZBS offense with an Oline used for that purpose. They are moving the chain in the air and only look "owned" when Kubes insists on a large # of plays by RB. Maybe we need more receptions being carried into the end zone. If our D continues to step up, maybe we can 3 point 'em to death? We seem to be scoring 21+ per game and if we could add three field goals rather than turning the ball over in red zone (or end zone for that matter). that would be 30 points & with an shiny new improved defense, we should win out the rest of season. How's that for a plan?
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Old 10-16-2009   #15
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
By looking at the little chart, Myers is right there with Studdard being the worst in the running game. Which would validate my opinion....if I wanted to rely on some chart.

I'd rather watch the game myself and form an opinion
Yep.

Sure between the 20's they don't look too terrible, but when it gets time to get a push or hold the LOS in a deciding moment. They always seem to come up short.

For the life of me as well, I can't help but figure out Winston. When they signed him to the extension he looked like one of the upcoming young RTs of the league. Seems since Fred Weary went down and didn't get resigned he's struggled. Now I'm not sure Fred was all that great but...well Just saying Brisiel did "replace" him.
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Old 10-16-2009   #16
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
By looking at the little chart, Myers is right there with Studdard being the worst in the running game. Which would validate my opinion....if I wanted to rely on some chart.

I'd rather watch the game myself and form an opinion
I think you are grasping at straws here, Hou-Tex!

If you go to the individual page:
http://profootballfocus.com/by_playe...&playerid=2417
you will see that the two games that Myers was "bad" in the running game was the Raiders game and the Titans game.

In the Raiders game, I've already said that Myers was only bad toward the end of the game; specifically in our last drive that took over 7 mins.
We kept the ball and ran out the clock.

In the Titans game, Barrett actually gave Myers pretty good mark in both the running game and the passing game:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64894


I said that Myers was so so, and not all that good;
but his "lacking" was not of consequences.
No harm, no foul what I meant!
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Old 10-16-2009   #17
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Brisiel had one good game that really bumps up his score:

http://profootballfocus.com/by_playe...&playerid=3250
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Old 10-16-2009   #18
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

I've got two Olinemen on my draft board.
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Old 10-16-2009   #19
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I've got two Olinemen on my draft board.
Some of you may not remember, but I had Caldwell and Herman Johnson as the two that I wanted to draft. (In the "who would you have taken" thread.)

Just so Hou-Tex and others know that I'm not down on Caldwell.
I just think that he needs time to develop, that's all.

And I wanted to use "big bad herman munster" at Guard in short yardage situation.
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Old 10-16-2009   #20
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Default Re: PFF our offensive line..... help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
By looking at the little chart, Myers is right there with Studdard being the worst in the running game. Which would validate my opinion....if I wanted to rely on some chart.

I'd rather watch the game myself and form an opinion
I'm not saying Myers is the bee's knees or anything of the sort. I'm saying there are weaker spots on our OL & for the life of me, I can't figure out why most fans "zone-in" on Myers.

When getting to the second level, Myers more times than not, will put a block on someone, and drive them away from the play. I'm not saying he doesn't miss... he does. I'm not saying LBs don't run around him... they do. I'm saying he is more likely to deter a LB/DB from making a play.

At the second level, Winston, & Pitts look retarded. I do agree, when Winston gets his hooks into someone that guy is out of the play. But he rarely does. Last year, when we would pull Pitts, or run a power type play, Pitts was the man. ZB... not so much.

At the line, when he moves right or left, he's more apt to lock up a DLman & move him sideways. To open up running lanes. Pat Williams did get penetration on one play. Jenkins did toss Myers on one play...

But Jenkins tossed Pitts at least 4 times. Brisiel has been playing poorly this year, but last year he was pretty good. Duane Brown looked like a mistake last year, but this year he is without a doubt the most improved. Winston rarely tries to engage at the line.. he's more likely to throw a pitiful cut block.


He doesn't do much cut blocking. Brisiel cut block very well last year. throwing his body into the defender's body. Winston, Pitts, Studdard, & Brown throw themselves at the space in front of their opponent, who doesn't have to do very much to avoid that block.

It's like on any given play, we're running behind 2 guys.... every now & then, we're running behind 3 guys. If we were a Power O team, that might be fine. Tell your back to follow so-and-so on this play, or so-and-so on that play. But with a ZBS system, he's supposed to press the LOS, read the blocks, determine which hole is developing, make one cut, then hit that hole.

If Winston & Owen Daniels is playing on the backside of a play, forget about a cut back.

I'm not dogging the talent of our OL. When they make plays, you can see they've got what it takes for us to be successful. If they could play as consistent as our ZB vet.... we would have something.
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