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Old 09-24-2009   #1
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Default DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

Did anyone notice that on the play Wilson got that interception, DelJuan Robinson was playing the weaksid DE? I didn't believe it myself, and watched it several times.. sure enough, there he was. Lined up outside the Tackle, & ran the same outside arc DE usually run.

Zgonina was on the nose. 0 tech. He got good push, not great, but good.

Bullman was the UT. playing the 3 tech on the strong side. He pushed the RG into the LT, then did his little spin thing & hit Collins a fraction of a second after Mario hit him.

Mario Bulls the RT just past Collins, then came back with an inside swim, & hit Collins as he threw the ball.

I've never seen anyone put their DTs on one side of the formation, and the DEs on the other.
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Old 09-24-2009   #2
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

Well the left side of the line is typically the pass blockers and the Right side the run blocking bulldozers.

So basically we had our big boys on there pass blockers and our pass rushers on there run blockers. Makes sense on passing downs I guess.
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Old 09-24-2009   #3
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

I don't remember that play specifically or what the lineups have been in the formations I'm remembering but I have seen them run Mario plus 3 "DT's". So technically yes, someone like THE TEXANS BEST DEFENSIVE TACKLE DELJUAN ROBINSON could be lined up in that position that you're describing.

I've also seen Bush run a 3 man line as well.
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Old 09-24-2009   #4
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

It looks to me like a variation of the 46D against a 3-WR set.
Deljuan is still a DT.

When you look at the play from the beginning, you will see that we started out with a 3-man line, in what they call a T-N-T Front (Tackle, Nose, Tackle).
Zgonina is the Nose, Deljuan and Bulman are the tackles.
Normally, the Nose is on the Center, and the two DTs on the Guards.

Mario then comes up the strong side as the DE.
Barwin comes up the weak side as the Jack.

Cushing is the Charlie who will be rushing on this play.

We drop the Jack (Barwin) and the Mike (Demeco) into coverage along with the SS (Busing, who plays up at LB depth on the side that has 2 receivers).
In this case, Demeco is the one to take on the releasing TE who is closer to him than Barwin.

.....

If you look at the play before that, on 1st and 10, we employ a similar variation of the 46.
5 guys playing with hands down.
We also insert Cushing on the LOS to make a true 6-man line.
This formation is used against a normal 2-WR set.
The SS Busing comes up and play along side Demeco.
In either case, we would have a single deep safety.
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Old 09-25-2009   #5
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

I would rather they tried Okoye at DE. In fact I dont know why they dont when we lineup 4 bigs on the line.
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Old 09-25-2009   #6
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I would rather they tried Okoye at DE. In fact I dont know why they dont when we lineup 4 bigs on the line.
Probably because of his inability or unwillingness to playside contain. Last thing we need at DE is a guy that doesn't have the playmaking ability and also allows QBs and RBs to easily get to the edge of the defense.

I'd rather see him at EB (that's the end of the bench).
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Old 09-25-2009   #7
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I would rather they tried Okoye at DE. In fact I dont know why they dont when we lineup 4 bigs on the line.
We have different personnel groupings for different packages.

We have lined up Okoye at DE before.
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Old 09-25-2009   #8
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Probably because of his inability or unwillingness to playside contain. Last thing we need at DE is a guy that doesn't have the playmaking ability and also allows QBs and RBs to easily get to the edge of the defense.

I'd rather see him at EB (that's the end of the bench).
I understand and agree Im just saying when we do go to these big fronts and hes out there, I would rather see him at DE than Robinson. Okoyes strength is supposed to be his ability to gt up field quickly. Usually when we are in these type fronts its going to be a running situation. Id prefer we put the guys who can hold up at the POA in the middle.

Im tired so that probably makes no sense sorry for rambling!
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Old 09-25-2009   #9
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I understand and agree Im just saying when we do go to these big fronts and hes out there, I would rather see him at DE than Robinson. Okoyes strength is supposed to be his ability to gt up field quickly. Usually when we are in these type fronts its going to be a running situation. Id prefer we put the guys who can hold up at the POA in the middle.

Im tired so that probably makes no sense sorry for rambling!
What Okoye is "supposed" to do and what he actually does isn't the same thing. Frankly, his best position probably is WLB. When he's unblocked, he flows to the ball pretty well and occasionally makes a tackle. He's kind of like a 300 lb Morlon Greenwood, if you will. Only he plays softer, he's slower, and he can't shed blocks as well.... man, that's depressing!
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Old 09-25-2009   #10
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
What Okoye is "supposed" to do and what he actually does isn't the same thing. Frankly, his best position probably is WLB. When he's unblocked, he flows to the ball pretty well and occasionally makes a tackle. He's kind of like a 300 lb Morlon Greenwood, if you will. Only he plays softer, he's slower, and he can't shed blocks as well.... man, that's depressing!
Softer than Greenwood...
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Old 09-25-2009   #11
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
What Okoye is "supposed" to do and what he actually does isn't the same thing. Frankly, his best position probably is WLB. When he's unblocked, he flows to the ball pretty well and occasionally makes a tackle. He's kind of like a 300 lb Morlon Greenwood, if you will. Only he plays softer, he's slower, and he can't shed blocks as well.... man, that's depressing!
A 300 lb MG but softer & slower ? Man that's some rough stuff !
Wow ! Somebody actually with a lower tolerance-level of Okoye than my own.
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Old 09-25-2009   #12
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

LZ mentioned it in his blog:

Quote:
* The Texans continued to show some "46" looks but the thing that stood out the most to me was the amount of snaps the Texans went with 3 DTs and Mario Williams on the defensive line. Frank Bush has been much more aggressive and creative in trying to deal with the two offenses he's faced. The Titans had a few big plays (obviously), but Bush wasn't going to let the Titans just maul the Texans with the ground game and I like the way he decided to get creative in scheming against the Titans.
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Old 09-25-2009   #13
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
A 300 lb MG but softer & slower ? Man that's some rough stuff !
Wow ! Somebody actually with a lower tolerance-level of Okoye than my own.
I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt until week one of this season. I can't tolerate his sloppiness and lack of discipline anymore. I'm more angry with the coaching staff for continuing to line him up every week than I am at him. But, that anger spills over to him when I watch and re-watch the 91 yard TD run by Chris Johnson.
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Old 09-25-2009   #14
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt until week one of this season. I can't tolerate his sloppiness and lack of discipline anymore. I'm more angry with the coaching staff for continuing to line him up every week than I am at him. But, that anger spills over to him when I watch and re-watch the 91 yard TD run by Chris Johnson.
It is very annoying. They are playing him to justify the pick, which makes it even worse that he is soooooo bad. I forgive them fo picking him, but not if they trot him out week in and week out.
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Old 09-25-2009   #15
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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I'm remembering but I have seen them run Mario plus 3 "DT's". So technically yes, someone like THE TEXANS BEST DEFENSIVE TACKLE DELJUAN ROBINSON could be lined up in that position that you're describing.
First of all, I'm not asking. I saw it. So it's not like it could happen. I know it did.

I found it odd, to see a DT lined up as a DE. I haven't seen many formations with us lining up 3 DTs.

As a matter of fact, I don't remember any plays when we had three DTs on the field at the same time. Okam, Robinson, Cody, Zgonina, , & Okoye. I haven't seen three of those guys on the field at the same time.

Bullman & Smith playing on the inside, as a DT, I've seen that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
LZ mentioned it in his blog:
I'm looking.
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Old 09-25-2009   #16
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

Let me go back to the Wilson's INT and give my take.
(As always, I don't claim that it's absolutely correct!

The general idea of the 46 Defense is to bring guys up the line and attack.
To get guys in the backfield to create havoc.
To stop the running game in its track and to pressure the QB faster than a delay blitz or a zone dog.
At the minimum, it has a look of a 6-man blitz.
(Obviously, there are pitfalls).

In this play (a 3-WR set, single back), with the TNT front, we have guys on their 3 interior guys.
Sending The Cush up the middle will have him after the RB at the get-go if they give the ball to CJ.
Cushing can blow up the running play at the mesh point,
or he can chase CJ outside on a wider arc than the runner wanted to,
making the sideline another defender (in theory).

In the passing game, he will have the chance to blow up the RB to get to Collins.
This was what happened on this play.
Barwin would drop back in coverage and Cushing would come up the middle in a 5-man blitz.
Cush got past CJ and tried to get at Collins' feet.

Both Deljuan and Zgonina went to their right.
This created a one-on-one situation for Bulman on the LG.
Bulman, with good effort, almost got to Collins as well.

We also create a one-on-one for Mario with the RT when the TE releases.
Which was what happened on the play, and Mario overwhelmed his man,
he almost got to Collins just the same.

(Or we can have Barwin charging the LT if we choose to blitz that side.)

Not that Collins haven't seen the 46 before,
but I imagine his initial read is such that when we blitz a LB up the middle,
there should be a soft spot behind the blitzer, which there was.

However, in the 46, we drop 2 men (in this case, Barwin in Demeco) back in the intermediate zone.
The idea is that on a blitz, the QB might need to get rid the ball quickly.
We would have an opportunity for an interception if the QB throws a bullet.
Demeco, had he not followed the TE who ran a slant route, would have been in excellent position for the INT.
Barwin can always cover the TE.

I thought that Collins tried to fit the ball in between Wilson, Busing, and Demeco.
The ball was behind and high.
The announcer (Steve Tasker?) said that it was a bad pass.
But it could very well be that Collins threw to the right spot, and the WR overran the route.
Collins threw before the receiver made his turn, so I believe he was throwing to a spot, not to a receiver.

Wilson with an interception.

The possible pitfalls:

Collins took a look at Gage who had motioned from the outside into the slot.
Collins should have noticed that Dunta was doing the shuffle on the outside shoulder of the receiver.
A quick outside-inside move by Gage and no matter what pivot foot Dunta is on,
Gage would lose him in an instance and was wide open.

On the other side, Bennett was also doing the shuffle, but Collins couldn't have noticed it.
At any rate, the 6'2 wide-out Edison also had inside position over Bennett deep.
A quick six as I've seen one.


Looks like a late hit by Bulman.
The ball had clearly left Collins' hand before Bulman started his launch on the QB.
Mario also beat his man, but all was a little late. Over 3-1/2 secs.
I'm not sure what's in the rule-book here.
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Old 09-25-2009   #17
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt until week one of this season. I can't tolerate his sloppiness and lack of discipline anymore. I'm more angry with the coaching staff for continuing to line him up every week than I am at him. But, that anger spills over to him when I watch and re-watch the 91 yard TD run by Chris Johnson.
Would that be the same play that Mario & Bullman had hands on Chris Johnson in the backfield before he ran for 91 yards?
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Old 09-25-2009   #18
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
First of all, I'm not asking. I saw it. So it's not like it could happen. I know it did.

I found it odd, to see a DT lined up as a DE. I haven't seen many formations with us lining up 3 DTs.
As a matter of fact, I don't remember any plays when we had three DTs on the field at the same time. Okam, Robinson, Cody, Zgonina, , & Okoye. I haven't seen three of those guys on the field at the same time.

Bullman & Smith playing on the inside, as a DT, I've seen that.



I'm looking.
As I had mentioned, in the 46, we have a T-N-T Front
(2 DTs and a NT)

Deljuan and Bulman were DTs in that play as well as the one just before it.
Zgonina was the Nose Tackle.

Last edited by 76Texan; 09-25-2009 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 09-25-2009   #19
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
What???
I fixed it.

Please remove this quote, so no one else can see it.


I'm so embarassed...
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Old 09-25-2009   #20
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Default Re: DelJuan Robinson as a DE??

I saw Zac Diles lined up as the 5th down-lineman for us last year, as the NT, no less!

I think it was the Dolphins' game.
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