The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

But, do you think Tom Coughlin can win a Super Bowl?

I know most people will say, "You can't compare Coughlin to Kubiak, Coughlin has won two Super Bowls & Kubiak has won nothing."

But my point, is that guy is the same guy he was before he won two Super Bowls.

Not true. There's an NFL Films special on Coughlin and the NYG the year that they won their first SB with him. A significant part of time was spent talking about what a different coach he had become. He changed.

Not getting into how that pertains to Kubiak, but your point is fundamentally flawed.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Not true. There's an NFL Films special on Coughlin and the NYG the year that they won their first SB with him. A significant part of time was spent talking about what a different coach he had become. He changed.

Not getting into how that pertains to Kubiak, but your point is fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.

Sure, but the Coughlin that people think of, the guy that laid into is players for not being early enough, didn't win a Super Bowl. He had to change to adjust to his players.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.

Coughlin also took an expansion team (those Jags you mention) to the AFC Championship if you want to do your homework.

[mussop]

I foresee cowher in our future. Maybe it's just me but after watching him interview Watt yesterday, I believe he wants this job. He is in love with Watt. Couldn't say enough good things about him.

Before the game he was saying how Kubiak needs to think outside the box for this game. Can't stay with his normal play calling. I don't know why but it just seems like everything is falling in place for us to get him.

Obviously Kubes is going to get another year most likely 2 no matter what. Cowher announced that he wanted another couple years off before he returned to coaching. Bet he would change his mind real fast if Kubiak got canned.

[Foxboro Steve]

I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak...

I agree with this. Schaub isn't Brady or Rogers, but Schaub has played much better in the past. If there is something concrete that would lead me to believe Schaub can't be that guy, then I'd be onboard with moving on.

Kubiak on the other hand... I could understand if more people were looking at him as they criticize this game. I don't understand the focus on Schaub, other than seeing all these young'ns run around & make this QB thing look easy.

Schaub has a list of strengths & a list of weaknesses. I don't think Kubiak has done a good job of putting his QB in a position to succeed. Everyone told us what the Patriots weakness was. TEs over the middle, their secondary...

At the end of the half, we attacked that weakness & we were able to move the ball much better in that 4 minute period than we had the entire half. I thought Gary "saw" that. I thought Gary "woke up"

But after the half, we put that approach on the back burners & went right back to what did not work. I saw Matt Schaub escape the pocket by throwing a stiff arm at a DE/LB... he got out clean to the flat. Did not set his feet, did not locate a receiver, did not deliver the ball down field. Did not "make a play" I'm watching that & with everything else I saw, I'm left with the idea that Kubiak was looking at that & said,"That's it Matt, next time we'll make that throw."

& that's just absurd.

[Double Barrel]

If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.

The Texans are like a mom and pop marketing shop who will not get rid of their cousin , nephew , or son unless they really really screw up . In fact they'll give them an extension even when they don't deserve it .

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.

I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

Exactly. As long as the Texans are within 7 points, they have a chance. Once they are down by 20 or more, it's all over. This team just simply isn't built for quick points. That either changes, or we'll just keep getting these nice AFCS hats and dropping out of the playoffs early. Indy, I think, has farther to go than most believe.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak...

This thread is three years old. If you check the complaints people have had about Kubiak throughout the thread, they haven't changed. And people didn't start the thread until Kubiak had been around for a few years.

At this point in time, there's no chance Kubiak gets fired. But this thread is an interesting trip through time.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

Couldn't agree with this post more.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

I'll be honest with you, I had that gut feeling when they could not score a TD after being gifted with a 94 yard kickoff return.

SETTLING for field goals is this team's mantra.

I was a little surprised that we were within 4 at halftime, but I told my buddy that the Patriots will come out ready to play and the Texans will act like they are sleepy after taking a nap. The 3rd quarter played out exactly as I expected, and according to Kubiak, this quarter is when "they lost the game" (a defeatist attitude, IMO).

I'm sure Schaub fans will use his stats to support him, but I'm not buying it. I saw it with my own eyes. Dude is just not prime time in any sort of way. And this offense runs through him. It is his to succeed or fail.

[Vinny]

rewatch the game on NFL rewind later and see how slow they huddle once they got behind, how many times they throw short of the yardsticks, how casual the offense was...it was maddening to me. It was like it was too much trouble to ramp it up and take some shots. It felt like hey, lets pad the stat line and make it look good on paper.

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I'll be honest with you, I had that gut feeling when they could not score a TD after being gifted with a 94 yard kickoff return.

SETTLING for field goals is this team's mantra.

I was a little surprised that we were within 4 at halftime, but I told my buddy that the Patriots will come out ready to play and the Texans will act like they are sleepy after taking a nap. The 3rd quarter played out exactly as I expected, and according to Kubiak, this quarter is when "they lost the game" (a defeatist attitude, IMO).

I'm sure Schaub fans will use his stats to support him, but I'm not buying it. I saw it with my own eyes. Dude is just not prime time in any sort of way. And this offense runs through him. It is his to succeed or fail.

And it's quite unfortunate we're stuck like chuck for at least another 3 years years. It saddens me that we've basically peaked with this regime and QB. I just can't come up with a scenerio where we can push the door in with this bunch. I'm happy we got to the point of being somewhat of a consistent playoff team, but what's the point if we can't beat the "elite"? It's like the 90's Oilers all over again.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Vinny

rewatch the game on NFL rewind later and see how slow they huddle once they got behind, how many times they throw short of the yardsticks, how casual the offense was...it was maddening to me. It was like it was too much trouble to ramp it up and take some shots. It felt like hey, lets pad the stat line and make it look good on paper.

I was wondering if a "hurry up" offense is even an option with this team.

It seems like they are built, both in terms of personnel and mentality, to get a lead and hold it with a run game and aggressive defense.

But once they get down two scores or more, they just seem lost and unable to amp up the intensity to catch up. They used to have the ability to catch up a couple of years ago when the defense sucked, but they have lost that ability and flounder around these days when they get behind.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I was wondering if a "hurry up" offense is even an option with this team.

It seems like they are buit, both in terms of personnel and mentality, to get a lead and hold it with a run game and aggressive defense.

But once they get down two scores or more, they just seem lost and unable to amp up the intensity to catch up. They used to have the ability to catch up a couple of years ago with the defense sucked, but they have lost that ability and flounder around these days when they get behind.

That was when Andre could take over a game. He's still a hell of a receiver but he doesn't destroy coverages anymore and he is more of a possession guy who can pick up big first downs here and there instead of a take the top off the defense kind of a threat. That's one reason I think this team needs an injection of speed and quickness. Both outside and in the slot. If we do that we still need to overcome this horse and buggy offense and be flexible like other elite teams...but Kubiak's offense seems stuck in the past.

[welsh texan]

Interesting reading this thread. Perhaps the main knock I have on Kubiak right now is that I don't believe he has it in him to part ways with Schaub at this juncture.

And in terms of Kubes' near term job security, that is probably the best decision for him, I mean, what are the chances that a rookie QB comes in and is an immediate upgrade? What are the chances that we can cut Schaub and then still be able to afford to get a vet who's an upgrade, and then even if we do, the chance that they don't take to the system.

For Kubes, it makes perfect sense to stick with Schaub and keep on beating everyone you're supposed to beat and failing against the elite tier QB's who given the current NFL rules will shred any D you put in front of them.

Take the Welker bomb on KJax, Welker pushed off on Kareem, if Kareem pushed back it would have been PI on D.

As for the Offensive scheme, I really don't know. We talk about our 'young' team, but our O is starting to get old now. AJ getting up there, OD too, Walter, Schaub, Thats 4 of your top 5 skill position players beyond their prime now. They haven't drafted/traded for an upgrade at any of those positions for years either. They bring on their draftees extremely slowly and then bleed them in in a way that puts plenty of tape on to scheme against before they've ever had chance to do any real damage. Just look at the Casey FB switch, I get the feeling Bill would have exploited that mismatch until teams simply had to sell out against it. What does Gary use it for?

A little wrinkle here and there, maybe let him rack up 100 yards receiving in a game once every 18 months or so. Whats the point of that when you could have a full on blocking FB roadgrading for our excellent RB group?

I have no expectations that we'll move on from either Schaub or Kubiak this offseason, and I don't see us winning fewer than 10 games with the status quo either. But we're going to be praying for favourable playoff seedings and more in January 2014 again unless something changes in philosophy. Which, again it won't.

Worst thing about last night? Lots of people were worried that the refs would screw us, yet the calls almost all went our way, there were awful ball spots that moved the chains for us, Fosters TD that could easily have been called short, video evidence was inconclusive at best. Injuries, not something you wish for but the Pats lost some important pieces during the game. What more could you ask for, and the scoreline reads far, far more respectably than it could have done.

This entire Smithiak era is beginning to look to me the way the Chargers looked a few years ago, racking up loads of stats in the regular season and failing in the playoffs. They had a lot of similar tools to what we have in terms of personnel too. Just never managed to get it done.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak...

Without seeing the gameplan or looking at the All-22 viewpoint to see what routes were available, how do you know the fail wasn't execution by Schaub?