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Old 09-11-2009   #1
Wolf
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Default Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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LOOKING back on it now, I probably owe Steve McKinney, Zach Wiegert and some of the other fellows an apology.

"The safest answer I can give is that perception isn't always reality," Chester Pitts said, taking the words right out of my mouth if, in fact, I happened to be the apologizing type. Which of course I am.

Turns out they might not have been the worthless dogs some of us thought them to be. In fact, the kids might have been all right. Who knew?

"The guys in our locker room knew," Pitts said, "and that's all that counts."

Once upon a time, McKinney and Wiegert were part of an offensive line that was blamed for just about all of David Carr's problems.

Some of us dummies thought if Carr just had more time to throw, if he just had a chance, then maybe, just maybe, he'd be the franchise quarterback he was supposed to be.

He took a brutal beating in five seasons with the Texans , and in those early years, there's little question he didn't have enough protection.

There was a point, though, when the Texans upgraded the talent, and Carr kept getting sacked. Once he departed, the number of sacks dropped dramatically - from 111 in Carr's final two seasons to 55 in two seasons with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels at quarterback.

Talent, injuries and scheme surely were issues at various times. Carr wrote his own check plenty of times.

Thinking has changed

He didn't have that intan-gible thing called "pocket presence," didn't have the ability to sense where the rush was coming from and when to unload the ball.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1...39;s-mistakes-
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Old 09-11-2009   #2
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Yep ... RJ is kissing some serious butt these days .
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Old 09-11-2009   #3
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

I can't stomach that guys articles after the first three sentences. I just can't, especially when it's about football. Not just Justice either, hell when they started rolling out the "Bud Adams wasn't that bad because he started the AFL" videos, i've pretty much limited my Chron reading to Texan Chick blog posts.
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Old 09-11-2009   #4
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Yep ... RJ is kissing some serious butt these days .
yes he is, I usually don't read his stuff

he has dickism quote on another thread about the Texans
Quote:
I know I will be. I'll be screaming for Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson and even Gary Kubiak. I won't be screaming for Alex Gibbs. He's not nice to me, and I only kiss the butt of those that kiss mine first.
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice...u_optimis.html

about makes me gag
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Old 09-11-2009   #5
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

I don't believe he know any more about football than the average poster on this board.

Nevertheless, I hope he is right about this. If he is right about this, the Texans should win on Sunday by at least two touchdowns.
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Old 09-12-2009   #6
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Tony Kornheiser, described him as the best baseball beat writer in America. Justice is an alumus of The University of Texas at Austin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Justice
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C'mon 'fess up, you guys are all green with envy about Richie because he's got his own Wikipedia entry aren't you ?
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Old 09-12-2009   #7
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Carr was and is a fraud, football speaking of course. He is an all-time bust, and unfortunately he was able to charm way to many folks off the field - McNair, Casserly, Capers, Kubiak and the media - to prolong his stay in Houston.
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Old 09-12-2009   #8
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Carr was and is a fraud, football speaking of course. He is an all-time bust, and unfortunately he was able to charm way to many folks off the field - McNair, Casserly, Capers, Kubiak and the media - to prolong his stay in Houston.
no truer words have been spoken

carr sucks, his dad sucked, his whole 'faith and family first' BS sucked, and because of that the Texans sucked

no one wanted to admit it but some of us knew he sucked from day one. it wasn't that hard to spot.

no pocket presence
no ability to burn blitzes
no ability to look downfield and feel pressure
no leadership
no accountability
no work ethic
no professionalism
no dedication

the only thing the guy could do is take an asswhoopin' and he was great at that
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Old 09-12-2009   #9
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

well, this "revelation" is only two years late and an 8 million dollar extension bonus short.

Good job.

In related news, Reggie Bush may not be an every-down RB.
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Old 09-12-2009   #10
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

People still have this animosity towards Carr which for some seems to almost border on hatred ? And many of these same people probably wildly applauded him at first when he beat their ultimate nemisis, the Dallas Cowboys, in the
franchises debut. And I remember several other games where Carr flashed his talent, and he was talented.
Did Carr quit on the team (and thereby the franchise and city in the eyes of many) after getting the crap beat out of him for several years when they
failed to protect him ? You bet he did. If you were an NFL teams QB and into your 4th year on that team the best they could do to protecat your azz was Victor Riley, wouldn't you quit to ?
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Old 09-12-2009   #11
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
If you were an NFL teams QB and into your 4th year on that team the best they could do to protecat your azz was Victor Riley, wouldn't you quit to ?
Hell no I wouldn't. Not for the kind of jack that Carr was getting paid. That's why most QB's are called PROFESSIONALS, because they don't just up and quit.

It's also pretty obvious tha Carr doesn't have talent because he couldn't beat out an over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde in Carolina when Delhomme went down. Dude has the Roethlisberger "Hold onto the ball forever" skillset but none of the creativity and improvisational skills.
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Old 09-12-2009   #12
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

OMG! It's starting AGAIN...
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Old 09-12-2009   #13
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Hell no I wouldn't. Not for the kind of jack that Carr was getting paid. That's why most QB's are called PROFESSIONALS, because they don't just up and quit.

It's also pretty obvious tha Carr doesn't have talent because he couldn't beat out an over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde in Carolina when Delhomme went down. Dude has the Roethlisberger "Hold onto the ball forever" skillset but none of the creativity and improvisational skills.
There is no such thing as an over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde. Dude could still start for 25 teams in this league.
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Old 09-12-2009   #14
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
People still have this animosity towards Carr which for some seems to almost border on hatred ? And many of these same people probably wildly applauded him at first when he beat their ultimate nemisis, the Dallas Cowboys, in the
franchises debut. And I remember several other games where Carr flashed his talent, and he was talented.
Did Carr quit on the team (and thereby the franchise and city in the eyes of many) after getting the crap beat out of him for several years when they
failed to protect him ? You bet he did. If you were an NFL teams QB and into your 4th year on that team the best they could do to protecat your azz was Victor Riley, wouldn't you quit to ?
No.
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Old 09-12-2009   #15
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Hell no I wouldn't. Not for the kind of jack that Carr was getting paid. That's why most QB's are called PROFESSIONALS, because they don't just up and quit.

It's also pretty obvious tha Carr doesn't have talent because he couldn't beat out an over-the-hill Vinny Testaverde in Carolina when Delhomme went down. Dude has the Roethlisberger "Hold onto the ball forever" skillset but none of the creativity and improvisational skills.
He didn't "just up and quit." That's what would come under the heading of a "no mas" quit. He kept playing, kept getting his azz kicked every game.
I doubt that half of you guys ever played a snap in your whole lives, ever got hit once let alone by one of those 300+ lb behemoths that regularly clobbered Carr. Did he loose interest, motivation, etc ? I'm sure he did. Did he look over his shoulder, loose his focus, run outo bounds more often than necessary for fear of the next time he would get busted ? Yep, I remember all of that to.
As far as him beating out Testaverde, he was past saving by the time he got there. His career and potential was long ago wasted by then thanks to his incompetant handlers in Houston.
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Old 09-12-2009   #16
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Now Justice just needs to apologize for being such a VY-loverboy. He's made a habit of being blatantly wrong so many times that I'm amazed he has any credibility, much left a job left.
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Old 09-12-2009   #17
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
People still have this animosity towards Carr which for some seems to almost border on hatred ? And many of these same people probably wildly applauded him at first when he beat their ultimate nemisis, the Dallas Cowboys, in the
franchises debut. And I remember several other games where Carr flashed his talent, and he was talented.
Actually, as much as I consider David Carr's lack of talent one of the major reasons for the slow start this franchise is going thru, I do find it amusing in a sad sort of way when I see all the personal vitriol directed towards the guy.

And in terms of that talent (or non-talent) - one of the few things (maybe the only thing) I'll give Dickie J. credit for in terms of football, was that he was saying fairly early on that if Carr truly had any ability to QB an NFL football team, it would show itself - even if only occasionally, and only briefly - and it never did.

The argument can be made that Carr entered the NFL without enought talent to succeed on that level , and the argument can be made that the Texans killed whatever talent he may have had (and the two arguments are not necessarily mutually exclusive). I have my own opinion, but there's no definitive answer to that question, which is essentially "nature or nurture". With all that, I absolutely take issue with the comment that he flashed enough talent to prove that he had any appreciable amount of it.
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Last edited by ChampionTexan; 09-12-2009 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 09-12-2009   #18
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

While some of them weren't dogs as the media and soem fans made them out to be it wasn't like once they got a decent QB behind them they were all pro.

Look to be honest I am not sure I can go off and say it's all Davie Carr's fault for the poor start to the franchise. I think he playeda big role in it no doubt. The coaching staff, front office, and players were dysfunctional IMO.

Capers and his coaching staff were incompetent at evaluating talent. Casserly, whether by the coaching staff demands or not made some bad moves in FA and monster bad ones in the draft. Some players didn't care and those that did had to fight through a lot of frustration.

We're obviously better off now then 4 years ago under Capers and Casserly. I can't help though but be a bit frustrated about certain things with this current staff. For example: letting Richard Smith stay so long when it's obvious the guy doesn't belong as a coordinator.

All that said I'm wary of starting over with new coach as the offense is fairly predicated on ZBS and we've finally got the personnel to run it. My concern is if we bring in a guy who is an experienced heach coach but, prefers to play a power run game or likes to run a 3-4. We're stuck retooling again.
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Old 09-12-2009   #19
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Carr held the ball way too long, but the line was still terrible for the first 4 years. Even with Schaub's pocket presence he would have been sacked 50+ times behind the 2002 line.
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Old 09-12-2009   #20
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Default Re: Gibbs has line poised to succeed J USTICE: Line blamed for Carr's mistakes

Somebody give me a clue. If we all hate Justice then why do we keep empowering him by spreading his articles around the web?
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