Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2009   #41
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 35,695
Rep Power: 291737 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Again, I see this play a differently. It was a great call that resulted in a TD. With great execution by the players.

I will elaborate soon.
Chester Pitts being flipped like a rag doll by a linebacker is "great execution by the players"

You've identified the pitiful cut blocks just like I did. You see Briesel in the running lane, with no cut back lane, just like I did. We're identifying the same problems, but you're not seeing anything to worry about.

Chris Johnson was on Slaton's heels for rookie rushing sensation. He got shut out last night. So did Lendale White. Against a great defense no doubt, but I kept seeing the words sophomore slump in the game threads..... as if Slaton isn't headed for the same thing. & when I see our OL performing as poorly as they have, making mistakes they shouldn't be..... that's all I see for Slaton.

Right now, our run game is Leach & Slaton, and that's not going to be good enough.

Nothing we can do about it, I know. Might as well not talk about it right?
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #42
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,560
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Chester Pitts being flipped like a rag doll by a linebacker is "great execution by the players"

You've identified the pitiful cut blocks just like I did. You see Briesel in the running lane, with no cut back lane, just like I did. We're identifying the same problems, but you're not seeing anything to worry about.

Chris Johnson was on Slaton's heels for rookie rushing sensation. He got shut out last night. So did Lendale White. Against a great defense no doubt, but I kept seeing the words sophomore slump in the game threads..... as if Slaton isn't headed for the same thing. & when I see our OL performing as poorly as they have, making mistakes they shouldn't be..... that's all I see for Slaton.

Right now, our run game is Leach & Slaton, and that's not going to be good enough.

Nothing we can do about it, I know. Might as well not talk about it right?
Hey, we scored a running TD in the redzone with Pitts at about 70% or less (according to him as I listened to one of his interviews).

It's the PS.

Chris White was getting his feet wet, but as he went along, I feel much more comfortable with him as a backup. I don't know if he can develop into a starter or not, but it gives us more options in the future.

Myers, White or Caldwell, in the long term, one of them stand a chance of developing further into a solid starter. The situation is better than at this time last year when I wished we had resigned McKinney for one year at the cheap (when Weary was not able to play) just to be sure in case Brisiel doesn't pan out.

Brisiel still needs to improve, but again, if he doesn't, we also have options.

If we stay as healthy as last season (or close to it), I like our chance.
But of course, we all want all the guys to improve.
And on that note, seeing D.Brown progress has got to make us fans feel better.

I'm not sure whether Slaton lose some of his explosiveness with the extra bulk or not. Too few game tapes to really determine it.
Certainly, he also needs time to adjust himself on the playing field with the addl' weight.

It's better than seeing C.Johnson's speed couldn't get around the corner on the Steelers. Knock on wood.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #43
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 23,855
Rep Power: 178253 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I know, I know... they can all do better.
But on the other hand, we're not playing against H.S. teams.
The other guys are capable of making us look bad just as we make them look bad!
How does the opponent make a Texan perform a poor block or tackle? Let's put the blame where it goes. If we get beat on a play or a game and are doing our best, cool beans. That's why I've posted good play means more to me than a sloppy win. Most fans disagree. I just don't see myself bragging how we slipped by and got a W but looked liked my old junior high team. It does matter to me. Sports is about competition not winning. You beat up your sister and I beat up Chuck Norris (hahah) who accomplished more? Of course, I don't know your sister. She may be tougher than Norris but that's my POV. Anyway, spring training is ove and football is here. One way or another.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #44
DocBar
Hall of Fame
 
DocBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: I'm international
Section: Channel 700-ish on NFL Sunday Ticket
Age: 44
Posts: 9,692
Rep Power: 100454 DocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respectedDocBar is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
How does the opponent make a Texan perform a poor block or tackle? Let's put the blame where it goes. If we get beat on a play or a game and are doing our best, cool beans. That's why I've posted good play means more to me than a sloppy win. Most fans disagree. I just don't see myself bragging how we slipped by and got a W but looked liked my old junior high team. It does matter to me. Sports is about competition not winning. You beat up your sister and I beat up Chuck Norris (hahah) who accomplished more? Of course, I don't know your sister. She may be tougher than Norris but that's my POV. Anyway, spring training is ove and football is here. One way or another.
A superior talent on the other side of the ball is how they can make our guys look bad. Lots of NFL OL's have looked bad against the Vikes, Ravens, etc. As for poor tackling, I think that is actually taught at the NFL level. We would get run off the team for making most of the "tackles" players make these days. I believe in the old adage," if winning doesn't count, why keep score?" I'll take a win anyway I can get it, but I prefer it to be a dominant win, not a squeaker.
__________________
“Of course, if one ignores contradictory observations, one can claim to have an ‘elegant’ or ‘robust’ theory. But it isn’t science.”
— Halton Arp
DocBar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #45
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,560
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
How does the opponent make a Texan perform a poor block or tackle? Let's put the blame where it goes. If we get beat on a play or a game and are doing our best, cool beans. That's why I've posted good play means more to me than a sloppy win. Most fans disagree. I just don't see myself bragging how we slipped by and got a W but looked liked my old junior high team. It does matter to me. Sports is about competition not winning. You beat up your sister and I beat up Chuck Norris (hahah) who accomplished more? Of course, I don't know your sister. She may be tougher than Norris but that's my POV. Anyway, spring training is ove and football is here. One way or another.
Both you and docbar have valid points.

Remember, in my review thread, I always put the blow-up where it was (I hate the term "blame"!)

But I have seen Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros made to look bad by a good play from an opponent.

And then, there are examples like Brisiel couldn't get to the outside shoulder of the DT he was to block to give Chris White a chance to help with the double team. But then again, we also need to remember that the DT was moving toward the playside; that makes it hard for Brisiel to get there.

The DT made Brisiel look bad, pushing him back more than 2 yds behind the LOS. But those things happen. You go on to the next play!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #46
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,560
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
A superior talent on the other side of the ball is how they can make our guys look bad. Lots of NFL OL's have looked bad against the Vikes, Ravens, etc. As for poor tackling, I think that is actually taught at the NFL level. We would get run off the team for making most of the "tackles" players make these days. I believe in the old adage," if winning doesn't count, why keep score?" I'll take a win anyway I can get it, but I prefer it to be a dominant win, not a squeaker.
Also, on the other hand, sometimes the O-line can make a RB look good when it creates a huge running lane that Fat Albert can walk thru.

Sometimes, the RB can make the O-line look good by bursting thru the tiniest of daylight!

It's a team game. We need as many guys executing on a certain play as possible!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009   #47
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 35,695
Rep Power: 291737 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Both you and docbar have valid points.

Remember, in my review thread, I always put the blow-up where it was (I hate the term "blame"!)

But I have seen Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros made to look bad by a good play from an opponent.

And then, there are examples like Brisiel couldn't get to the outside shoulder of the DT he was to block to give Chris White a chance to help with the double team. But then again, we also need to remember that the DT was moving toward the playside; that makes it hard for Brisiel to get there.

The DT made Brisiel look bad, pushing him back more than 2 yds behind the LOS. But those things happen. You go on to the next play!
Briesel stood him up. There was no movement backwards at all. Chris White came in & hit Williams, making him move to the right. As they moved to the right, Briesel got tripped up on Vonta & Winfields feet... that's how they got into the backfield. That DT didn't do anything to make Briesel look bad.

Our guys, Winston, Brown, & White wasting their time at the second level, or inability to get to the second level is why that play failed.

If Vonta is not there, Briesel continues to stretch the LOS to the right, like he's supposed to.

The biggest "blow-up" on that play, is Pitts lying on his belly with a back-up DT leap-frogging over him, taking away the cutback lane that should be there.

Those are the things we need to be working on, not Briesel blocking his guy.

Pitts with a sorry block. I'll say it again, because I don't think it's sunk in yet. But it was the back-up, the second string DT that made Chester Pitts (our best offensive lineman) look like a punk.

Duane Brown couldn't get to the LB, That's why we got him, so he could get to the LB and create running lanes. That's what we need to work on.

Winston couldn't get off the line. The play is going to the right. He should have been moving with Briesel so as not to be clipped. He should have been able to chip the DE, then get to the LB, so Slaton would have had some where to run.

White actually did a decent job putting a block on a LB, I just wish he was a little more mean about it.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 09-11-2009   #48
gafftop
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 1,960
Rep Power: 9350 gafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respectedgafftop is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Probably not too many remember Robert Neuhouse with the Houston Cougars. When he first began in college he was small and quick. When he left college he was still quick. With Dallas he bulked up and became not so quick, slow. I hope Slaton is not headed down this road. That one step means getting through the hole or not. We haven't seen enough in preseason to know for sure, Sunday will tell us if the added weight is good or bad.
gafftop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009   #49
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 18,685
Rep Power: 320620 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by gafftop View Post
Probably not too many remember Robert Neuhouse with the Houston Cougars. When he first began in college he was small and quick. When he left college he was still quick. With Dallas he bulked up and became not so quick, slow. I hope Slaton is not headed down this road. That one step means getting through the hole or not. We haven't seen enough in preseason to know for sure, Sunday will tell us if the added weight is good or bad.
Robert Newhouse RAWKED!
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009   #50
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 48,403
Rep Power: 383864 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by gafftop View Post
Probably not too many remember Robert Neuhouse with the Houston Cougars. When he first began in college he was small and quick. When he left college he was still quick. With Dallas he bulked up and became not so quick, slow. I hope Slaton is not headed down this road. That one step means getting through the hole or not. We haven't seen enough in preseason to know for sure, Sunday will tell us if the added weight is good or bad.
Newhouse was an entirely different kind of cat. He was quick in short space and became a power back. It would be more akin to Domanick Davis adding weight to his short legged frame. He never was going to bust one for 77 yds but he became harder to take down for less than 3.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009   #51
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 35,695
Rep Power: 291737 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

This is our second running play from the Jets game. 13:37 left in the 1st Qtr. 3rd &1 on our 29 yard line.

We're lined up in the I, Chris Brown is the Tail Back. Strong side to the left, both receivers lined up close on the weak side.

The Jets line up 4 men with their hand on the ground. Jenkins is not the nose. Instead he's lined up on Pitts. A SLB is lined up over OD. The LCB is behind him. 2 LBs over our guards. Leonard, the safety is lined up on AJ. Revis is out there to "help" I guess.

At the snap, the line moves left.
Except Winston, he goes straight for the WLB. He dives for his feet. Lands maybe 6 inches in front of him. The WLB has no trouble getting around him, barely breaks stride getting to the LOS. This is one of the reasons there is no cut back lane.

Eric Winston is a fan favorite.

Chris Myers gets to the MLB 4 yards past the LOS. He puts a helmet on him and drives him another 3 or 4 yards out of the way. This is part of the reason there is a running lane.

Chris Myers gets no love from Houston fans.

Andre Davis runs in, and lays himself at the feet of the RDE. The RDE can't get to the play, but it's not because of Davis' block.

Briesel puts his helmet in Jenkins' thighs. He & Pitts does a fairly good job of taking Jenkins out of the play. Briesel, Pitts, Jenkins create a pile that keeps the rest of the defense off Brown.

Brown's first step was left. But the man in front of him went to his right. Brown is stood up, and the DE is working his way back to the play, when he is greated by Vonta Leach.

Chris Brown has to get skinny to avoid Leach, & run between that block & Pitts. #91 who was basically unblocked, but trying to get around Briesel, Pitts, Jenkins gets a hand on CB. If not, that would have been a much bigger gain.

Duane Brown is lucky he isn't called for a hold. His hands are definitely outside the DEs frame, and he's trying to pull him away.

Owen Daniels might as well not even be out there.

AJ does IMO a poor job on the safety, basically pushing him into the play. even if he didn't, Revis & their other safety is right there to make the play.

Now I obviously don't know how this ZBS is supposed to go. But a few observations I don't think is quite right... the piss poor block Eric Winston puts on, looks like the piss poor block I mentioned Pitts made against the Vikings, and it looks like the Piss poor block Andre Davis made on this play. Looks like somebody is teaching them how to block piss poorly. I can't imagine why any one would do such a thing.... but the evidence is there.

Another thing, OD, Duane Brown, Chester Pitts.... don't look like they were on the same page with the rest of the team. Everything we've heard about the ZBS, says the first step is the same, for all linemen. But while the rest of the line looks to be stretching the play to the left.... OD, Brown, & Pitts look like they are making a stand on the left side of the line. I could see making a stand on the right side of the line, with the left side moving to the left.... that would open a hole. But here, everything on the right side of the line, was pushed into a pile that was started by Pitts.

My previous breakdowns of pre-season running, was simply to identify problems with our running game. They've had two weeks to fix the problems I saw... but they didn't. So then I ask, what were they working on? This isn't a new system, and I'm quite frankly ashamed that we make these mistakes when it counts.

I'm not of the fire Kubiak club... but these mistakes, and once again our pathetic opening day showing makes it easy to see why the club was chartered.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009   #52
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 23,855
Rep Power: 178253 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Both you and docbar have valid points.

Remember, in my review thread, I always put the blow-up where it was (I hate the term "blame"!)

But I have seen Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros made to look bad by a good play from an opponent.

And then, there are examples like Brisiel couldn't get to the outside shoulder of the DT he was to block to give Chris White a chance to help with the double team. But then again, we also need to remember that the DT was moving toward the playside; that makes it hard for Brisiel to get there.

The DT made Brisiel look bad, pushing him back more than 2 yds behind the LOS. But those things happen. You go on to the next play!
I wasn't talking about an occasional play that our guy gets beat. It is interesting to read my post at #38 and then realize how this game turned out. I quit counting the missed blocks and poor tackles before half time. What a sorry, sorry effort.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger