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Old 09-11-2009   #21
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

After I watched the Tacks totally shut down the Steelers' running game, I had visions of a similar Week 2 experience if the Texans don't get their running act running on all cylinders. Schaub, if he even gets to that game, may be getting a good view of the Reliant roof often.......or the view of the tiled ceiling of an emergency room.
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Old 09-11-2009   #22
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
After I watched the Tacks totally shut down the Steelers' running game, I had visions of a similar Week 2 experience if the Texans don't get their running act running on all cylinders. Schaub, if he even gets to that game, may be getting a good view of the Reliant roof often.......or the view of the tiled ceiling of an emergency room.
Don't worry, Rex Grossoutthetacks will save us.
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Old 09-11-2009   #23
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

I'm just going to wait and see what happens because I don't really think that what I see in preseason tells the whole story and I doubt that I have the ability to look at it objectively and differentiate between what's significant and what isn't.

In 2006 we had our Sherman/Kubiak hybrid running game and that got us 1685 yards on the year. Sherman went to A&M and Alex Gibbs appeared (Probably in a big red cloud of smoke croaking "Who has summoned me?") and he started messing with the offensive line. That resulted in a drop of about 100 yards in 2007 to 1586 while we fiddled with stuff (and waited for Ahman Green to get healthy... ) but then last season we saw tangible results in the form of consistent line play over most of the season and the arrival of a RB who could actually take advantage of it (Slaton).

In 2008 we ran for 1846 yards. That's almost a 300 yard improvement on the year. If we can get to about 2000 yards this year give or take a hundred I'll be happy. If everybody stays healthy and we don't get off to a horrible start this is possible I believe.
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Old 09-11-2009   #24
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post

We scored a touchdown because Vonta Leach is a bad ass..... PERIOD.
Umm..............Duh!

You just now figuring that out?
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Old 09-11-2009   #25
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'm just going to wait and see what happens because I don't really think that what I see in preseason tells the whole story and I doubt that I have the ability to look at it objectively and differentiate between what's significant and what isn't.

In 2006 we had our Sherman/Kubiak hybrid running game and that got us 1685 yards on the year. Sherman went to A&M and Alex Gibbs appeared (Probably in a big red cloud of smoke croaking "Who has summoned me?") and he started messing with the offensive line. That resulted in a drop of about 100 yards in 2007 to 1586 while we fiddled with stuff (and waited for Ahman Green to get healthy... ) but then last season we saw tangible results in the form of consistent line play over most of the season and the arrival of a RB who could actually take advantage of it (Slaton).

In 2008 we ran for 1846 yards. That's almost a 300 yard improvement on the year. If we can get to about 2000 yards this year give or take a hundred I'll be happy. If everybody stays healthy and we don't get off to a horrible start this is possible I believe.

I tend to agree with you on this. But I'm also trying to remember when our regular season performances were markedly improved over what we expected to see from the preseason experience. Although, I can remember many examples where the regular season performance was markedly worse than that predicted by the preceding preseason experience.
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Old 09-11-2009   #26
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I tend to agree with you on this. But I'm also trying to remember when our regular season performances were markedly improved over what we expected to see from the preseason experience. Although, I can remember many examples where the regular season performance was markedly worse than that predicted by the preceding preseason experience.
Last season. We had no idea SS was going to be such a good runner. DD's 1st year,also.
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Old 09-11-2009   #27
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I tend to agree with you on this. But I'm also trying to remember when our regular season performances were markedly improved over what we expected to see from the preseason experience. Although, I can remember many examples where the regular season performance was markedly worse than that predicted by the preceding preseason experience.
I can't really remember either, but considering that we are working with all of the same parts as last year, a LT that has a year under his belt, a RB in his second season, plus another year of continuity - I am willing to rely more on our performance last year as an indication of what to expect this year, compared to what we saw in the preseason.
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Old 09-11-2009   #28
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'm just going to wait and see what happens because I don't really think that what I see in preseason tells the whole story and I doubt that I have the ability to look at it objectively and differentiate between what's significant and what isn't.

In 2006 we had our Sherman/Kubiak hybrid running game and that got us 1685 yards on the year. Sherman went to A&M and Alex Gibbs appeared (Probably in a big red cloud of smoke croaking "Who has summoned me?") and he started messing with the offensive line. That resulted in a drop of about 100 yards in 2007 to 1586 while we fiddled with stuff (and waited for Ahman Green to get healthy... ) but then last season we saw tangible results in the form of consistent line play over most of the season and the arrival of a RB who could actually take advantage of it (Slaton).

In 2008 we ran for 1846 yards. That's almost a 300 yard improvement on the year. If we can get to about 2000 yards this year give or take a hundred I'll be happy. If everybody stays healthy and we don't get off to a horrible start this is possible I believe.
Don't you have the timing wrong on this? You were saying Gibbs came in 2007, but that's wrong.

2006 - Sherman was the line coach. 1685 yards.
2007 - Sherman was the OC. 1586 yards.
End of Sherman/Kubiak experiment.
2008 - Gibbs arrives. 1846 yards.
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Old 09-11-2009   #29
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Don't you have the timing wrong on this? You were saying Gibbs came in 2007, but that's wrong.

2006 - Sherman was the line coach. 1685 yards.
2007 - Sherman was the OC. 1586 yards.
End of Sherman/Kubiak experiment.
2008 - Gibbs arrives. 1846 yards.
You know what? I think you're right. I'm getting old and not as good at.... what were we talking about again?
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Old 09-11-2009   #30
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Last season. We had no idea SS was going to be such a good runner. DD's 1st year,also.
I'm not arguing that, but the way the season turned out cannot be interpretted as anything but luke warm, and in many aspects still quite disappointing.
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Old 09-11-2009   #31
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Here's another play, that most of us would look at as a success.

3:42 left in the second half. 2nd & 3 from the 4 yard line. At the snap, the OL moves forward. Except Brown, who swings left, to take on Will Allen. He does a good job of keeping him away from the play. Looks almost effortless, letting Allen arc around him.

Chester Pitts attacks the WILL, who sheds Pitts with a simple sidestep to his left. Pitts actually does a flip, and lands on his butt. The WILL does lunge at Slaton, but misses. Now a Houston fan would probably say Chester did a good job. That he did enough to keep the WILL from making the play.

Chris White took on their back up DT, #90. And does an okay job blocking him. He doesn't give up any ground, but he doesn't push him too far off the line either.

Briesel takes on Kevin Williams, and does about the same job.

The MLB shoots through the little gap between White & Briesel. He misses Slaton by a hair.

Winston comes in to help Briesel. Doesn't really look like he's doing much, as he doesn't move him anywhere.

Vonta Leach leads the way between Pitts & White. That's where the biggest hole was. But because Pitts did (IMO) such a horrible job blocking a LB, Vonta had to run closer to White than he should have. Slaton following had to do the same. But Vonta got brushed by #90, because he had to run so close. Vonta was still able to put a great block on the SAM, who would have been the only one stopping Slaton from reaching the endzone.

We scored a touchdown because Vonta Leach is a bad ass..... PERIOD.

What I want to point out here, is that we all look at Chester Pitts as our best offensive lineman. & he gets tossed like a Ragdoll.

ZB is supposed to be about blocking the guy that crosses your face, then proceed to the second level. But we didn't do that either. Briesel got locked up on Kevin Williams, and he couldn't get off. Granted Williams is a pro bowler.... but it doesn't look like he even tried to pass him off to Winston.

The MLB shot through the gap, and missed Slaton by a hair. We shouldn't be relying on the MLB to get through our line, and miss our tailback by a hair. Briesel should have got off his block, and took out the MLB. Chris White even pointed him out twice.

We've got another formation, a defensive mismatch, with two WRs to the left, and only one CB, and we don't adjust.

Preseason I know. But I thought this is when we're supposed to be identifying & addressing these problems.

To see this in the third preseason game, makes me question if our offense is ready for Sept 13.
Again, I see this play a differently. It was a great call that resulted in a TD. With great execution by the players.

I will elaborate soon.
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Old 09-11-2009   #32
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

I am more worried about every opponents running game.
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Old 09-11-2009   #33
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

I am worried about the economy. I am worried about the environment. I am worried about our government.

I am NOT worried about our running game.

We have all 5 starters back on the oline. They did a fantastic job all last season blocking for Slaton. And now we add a healthy Chris Brown. Not to mention we still have the same QB, receiving core, and fullback. The last thing I am worried about is the running game.

Now the defense on the other hand... lol.
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Old 09-11-2009   #34
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Here's another play, that most of us would look at as a success.

3:42 left in the second half. 2nd & 3 from the 4 yard line. We're lined up in the I, twins to the left, strong side to the right. Again, the defense lines up in a basic 4-3 formation, with one cornerback on each side. The slot receiver is Davis, covered by the WILL. He motions behind our OL, the Will moves to above our tackle, the other LBs shift accordingly.

We've got another formation, a defensive mismatch, with two WRs to the left, and only one CB, and we don't adjust.
1. They have a CB, a safety, the WILL, and other guys ready to shift if we went with a pass.

The CB used that shuffle technique, and he was actually on the outside shoulder of AJ. That took away the fade route to the corner... also turned any passing play toward the middle (supposedly crowding the field further).
But that also means he is way far away from the running play.
AJ came in and block the safety. So they gave us a one man advantage in blocking there.

2. By motioning A.D. all the way to the right, we kept the LCB at bay, and required the safety on that side to pay attention as well, creating doubt.
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Old 09-11-2009   #35
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

I see the problem as being the fact that our O-line is woefully thin and inadequate. We don't have quality talented starters or backups. Myers and Brisiel should be backups not starters, Pitts is average at best, and Studdard should be buying a ticket to the game like we do. I would love to see next years draft concentrate heavily on the secondary and O-line with multiple picks in each area.
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Old 09-11-2009   #36
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post

Chris White took on their back up DT, #90. And does an okay job blocking him. He doesn't give up any ground, but he doesn't push him too far off the line either.

Briesel takes on Kevin Williams, and does about the same job.

The MLB shoots through the little gap between White & Briesel. He misses Slaton by a hair.

Winston comes in to help Briesel. Doesn't really look like he's doing much, as he doesn't move him anywhere.

ZB is supposed to be about blocking the guy that crosses your face, then proceed to the second level. But we didn't do that either. Briesel got locked up on Kevin Williams, and he couldn't get off. Granted Williams is a pro bowler.... but it doesn't look like he even tried to pass him off to Winston.

The MLB shot through the gap, and missed Slaton by a hair. We shouldn't be relying on the MLB to get through our line, and miss our tailback by a hair. Briesel should have got off his block, and took out the MLB. Chris White even pointed him out twice.
And this is the beauty of the play.
We actually had Brisiel and Winston in a double team on Kevin Williams.
This create the illusion that this is the P.O.A.
It froze the SS and fooled the MLB who sliced in between the feet of White and Brisiel. He wasn't close to Slaton 'cause our lightning back' ultimate goal always was to cut to the weak side.

It would be a run somewhere around LG (Pitts).

We had only 9 to block 11.
But we ended up with one-on-one blocking at the true P.O.A.
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Old 09-11-2009   #37
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
I am worried about the economy. I am worried about the environment. I am worried about our government.

I am NOT worried about our running game.

We have all 5 starters back on the oline. They did a fantastic job all last season blocking for Slaton. And now we add a healthy Chris Brown. Not to mention we still have the same QB, receiving core, and fullback. The last thing I am worried about is the running game.

Now the defense on the other hand... lol.
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Old 09-11-2009   #38
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

To me it does not matter which offense or offensive play (run or pass, yardage,etc) we are in blocking is blocking and tackling is tackling. Too frequently our blocking is "deflecting". What I mean by that is that blocking to me is driving through the torso (not the lower leg block I often see) or engaging the opponent by stopping the opponent's flow to the ball carrier or QB. Texans brush block or "hand check" an opponent with poor success. The ZBS we use is set up to "move" an opponent away from the direction of the ball carrier often to be engaged by another Texans blocker. The danger of this is when the opponent does not get "moved". The type of lineman as we know that is best suited is a quicker of foot with good lateral movement and foot adjustment, usually this is a "smaller" size OL man. If things are done correctly and the opponent is simply not a better man on that play, yards are gained. Here is where it becomes interesting. Once the O lineman moves to 2nd level he continues to block the same way & often the tackler has a good chance of avoiding the "delecting" block. Rarely do I see our guy in the second level try to block through the opponent or even stand him up to halt the progress of the would be tackler. I can expect to see that from Slaton blocking a huge LB or a safety but not a 300 pounder blocking a smaller D man.

Tackling is similar as we too often do not see clean "knock them on their butt" or wrap up the knees and or ankle tackles. Even a sideline tackle should not be a push 'em down or push 'em across the sideline marker. If contact is going to be made it should be a take 'em off their feet tackle--always. I think it is habit forming to allow a player to push or "run" a player out of bounds. It might work but might not.

Even more so than decreasing Texan turn overs, I want to see sound blocking and tackling. Everything else, excepting injuries will take care of itself.
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Old 09-11-2009   #39
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
At the snap, the OL moves forward. Except Brown, who swings left, to take on Will Allen. He does a good job of keeping him away from the play. Looks almost effortless, letting Allen arc around him.

Chester Pitts attacks the WILL, who sheds Pitts with a simple sidestep to his left. Pitts actually does a flip, and lands on his butt. The WILL does lunge at Slaton, but misses. Now a Houston fan would probably say Chester did a good job. That he did enough to keep the WILL from making the play.

Chris White took on their back up DT, #90. And does an okay job blocking him. He doesn't give up any ground, but he doesn't push him too far off the line either.

Vonta Leach leads the way between Pitts & White. That's where the biggest hole was. But because Pitts did (IMO) such a horrible job blocking a LB, Vonta had to run closer to White than he should have. Slaton following had to do the same. But Vonta got brushed by #90, because he had to run so close. Vonta was still able to put a great block on the SAM, who would have been the only one stopping Slaton from reaching the endzone.

We scored a touchdown because Vonta Leach is a bad ass..... PERIOD.

What I want to point out here, is that we all look at Chester Pitts as our best offensive lineman. & he gets tossed like a Ragdoll.
To create this running lane, Pitts was the lead man.
As it was, the WILL wanted to go wide, toward D.Brown, so Pitts let him be.
True, he could do a better job hanging onto him a little longer.
He was far from 100% to start with, but we also does not know of his true intention. If a defender wants to move away from the POA, I say let him be.

But I also think because of the FS and RCB, this run was meant to be inside LG (as to be further away from the defense as much as possible).

White did a good enough job on the RDT.
Leach came up and make sure the RDT didn't slide sideway.
Then he took on the SAM who came from the strong side and did not have a good angle.
Leach did well by not leaving White too early.
Together, the formed a nice wall on the right side.

D.Brown and Pitts formed the wall on the left side.

Even without AJ blocking on the FS, Slaton had enough room and time to get there.

Great execution by the players.
(Though some might want Pitts to look prettier in his block. But I had observed several times before. I don't care how they block, as long it's efficient. The goal is to score a TD, not to win Ms America's pageant!)
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Old 09-11-2009   #40
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Default Re: I'm worried about our running game

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Even more so than decreasing Texan turnovers, I want to see sound blocking and tackling. Everything else, excepting injuries will take care of itself.
I know, I know... they can all do better.
But on the other hand, we're not playing against H.S. teams.
The other guys are capable of making us look bad just as we make them look bad!
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