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Old 08-23-2009   #1
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Default Fire Frank Bush

Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)
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Old 08-23-2009   #2
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I never liked the hiring myself, but come on HOneymoon, we still have to wait until the season. This thread really is meaningless, because you know good and well that he isn't going to be fired in pre season and even if they're terrible all season he probably still won't be fired in the middle of the season either. If our defense doesn't do anything this season and isn't improved or gets worse, to me it will be more on Kubiak than it will be on Bush since it was Kubiak's hiring knowing what was at stake here.

Lets wait until the season though man.
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Old 08-23-2009   #3
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I wish this thread was actually tongue in cheek.
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Old 08-23-2009   #4
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I think that is a record on the fire XXXXX thread
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Old 08-23-2009   #5
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I think we've found this week's pessimism boundary.
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Old 08-23-2009   #6
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)
How is your boy VY doing?
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Old 08-23-2009   #7
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Oh, brother.

It is two games into the preseason, and already the numskullery has begun.

Fire the coach! Fire the coach!

You have got to be kidding me.
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Old 08-23-2009   #8
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving a noob a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.
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Old 08-23-2009   #9
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I think that is a record on the fire XXXXX thread
Are you surprised at who started the thread about it??
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Old 08-23-2009   #10
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

at this thread - it's too early man, come on.
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Old 08-23-2009   #11
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

No soap, no care.

Until I see a Fire "X" soap, the thread has no merit.
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Old 08-23-2009   #12
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

OK, I'll try to take this thread in a serious direction.

IF the defense performs like it did (specifically, the individual players, not the scheme), who do you blame? The scheme is not to blame (yet), since there really was nothing shown last night. Kubiak doesn't really touch the defense, near as we can tell. Instead, he hires as many competent minds as he can find. I believe we probably have more defensive coaches than most teams, yet they can't seem to put this thing together. Is it the players? Are the coaches not getting the best out of them? It's easy to say Kubiak is responsible, because as the head coach he is, but that doesn't mean the defensive problems are his doing. He may go down for them, but seriously, someone has to be able to figure something out with this group, don't they?

All this hinges upon an "if", but it's something to think about.
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Old 08-23-2009   #13
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving him a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.
true, on the poll thread, I put a vote for "kinda" mainly because of what you are stating.. I think we have some of the horses needed to become a very good defense but we have that unknown variable with the coaching .. we don't know how the system was going to work (like you said)

If our offense got shut out against the saints , we wouldn't worry , because we have seen what it can do (at least I wouldn't worry ) (red zone offense is still scaring me though as far as FG's instead of TD's)
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Old 08-23-2009   #14
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving him a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.
Yes, I agree with most of this and people will not be wrong for going nuts either.

I never liked the Bush hiring in the first place at all. But many people said at the time that if it doesn't work out and things don't turn around it will be a huge dent on Kubiak's resume, since Kubes hired his boy instead of going out and getting a guy with a much better proven track record at running a defense. Kubes knew that improving the defense was going to be a major importance at making that next step this season, and if he hired a guy that doesn't have a much better and improved defense with all of the players we've brought in as well, then that's going to be a lot of criticism on Kubiak even more than it will be on Bush.
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Old 08-23-2009   #15
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
No soap, no care.

Until I see a Fire "X" soap, the thread has no merit.
I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
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Old 08-23-2009   #16
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
Funny, funny, funny.
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Old 08-23-2009   #17
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

It will be Kubiak's neck if this flops and the fallout will define Kubiak for years if this doesn't work out. See, I feel like if Frank Bush fails then ultimately it means the Kubiak has failed and that it won't be a case of "Well, we need a new DC because Frank didn't cut it". It will be a case of "Well, Gary has our offense working great but he doesn't know squat about defenses and we aren't going anywhere without one".

At that point Bob McNair has a choice and that choice is either push a "name" DC on Kubiak whether he agrees or not or replace Kubiak entirely. I really think that's a slim possibility post 2009 (if things go that way with no improvement) and a strong probability post 2010 (again if nothing changes).

Frank Bush is all Gary Kubiak's hire. I want our defense to work more than I want anything else as far as the Texans are concerned right now. That's issue #1 for me.
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Old 08-23-2009   #18
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
Hey Wolf, its only one preseason game and your already having to bust out the Sunny happy avatar? Its going to be a long week isn't it.

And on a side note (and not toward you Wolf) the Colts look bad every preseason and look like they lose something yet come back when the games count and dominate. Just sayin.
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Old 08-23-2009   #19
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Yes, I agree with most of this and people will not be wrong for going nuts either.

....

Kubes knew that improving the defense was going to be a major importance at making that next step this season, and if he hired a guy that doesn't have a much better and improved defense with all of the players we've brought in as well, then that's going to be a lot of criticism on Kubiak even more than it will be on Bush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
It will be Kubiak's neck if this flops and the fallout will define Kubiak for years if this doesn't work out. See, I feel like if Frank Bush fails then ultimately it means the Kubiak has failed and that it won't be a case of "Well, we need a new DC because Frank didn't cut it". It will be a case of "Well, Gary has our offense working great but he doesn't know squat about defenses and we aren't going anywhere without one".
I agree with these takes. Kubiak's ass is on the line for this, and it should be. However, that really doesn't answer the question of why none of these coaches can get anything from these guys. We have Ray Rhodes, Frank Bush, Bill Kollar, etc., etc ..... someone ought to be able to get something out of these guys. I don't really have a problem with Kubiak turning the defense over to the DC, with the understanding that the buck stops at him whether he likes it or not, but at some point, I have to ask how a collection of coaches can be so bad, especially when I just see payers failing at the individual level.

If we don't control the LOS, we won't win consistently. On defense, who do we have that can control his part of the LOS? Mario. That's it. So why are all these other scrubs not doing well? Is it mental, as in coaching? Is it physical (Okoye)? Are they just not good enough? WTH?
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Old 08-23-2009   #20
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Default Re: Fire Frank Bush

I hope the defense kicks butt this season and maybe I can get someone to make a avatar ...one that would show Mario holding up the sky instead of Atlas

maybe that will give some comfort to the sky is falling crowd





Last edited by Wolf; 08-23-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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