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Old 02-08-2005   #1
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Default Babin vs Vrabel

Since the Texans use the same system as the Patriots & the strength of their defense seems to be their linebackers I thought it might be interesting to compare Jason Babins rookie year with the Texans in this system to Mike Vrabels first season with the Patriots (actually his 5th NFL season).

Vrabel is 6'-4" 261
Babin is 6'-2" 259

Vrabel stats 1st year with the Pats-
G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL
16 59 24 83 4.5 30

Babins stats rookie year with Texans-
G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL
16 54 9 63 4.0 19

These are the type of players who seem to excell in the 3-4 scheme & as the Patriots showed in the Superbowl are flexible enough to play in a 4-3 to confuse the offense. I really think we need to also take note of the fact that Vrabel plays TE on occassion & quite succesfully too. I'm not sure if Babin has the hands but I know of one very good DE from Oklahoma who is a senior that would make an outstanding OLB & has played TE in both College and High School by the name of Dan Cody (6'5" 270) not to mention that Vrabel, Babin & Cody strike me as blue collar, lunch pale types classic overachievers.
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Old 02-08-2005   #2
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Cody seems like a good pick but at 270lbs he looks heavy for a OLB. also didn't he quit the team at oklahoma his freshman year or something?
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Old 02-08-2005   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
Vrabel, Babin & Cody strike me as blue collar, lunch pale types classic overachievers.
All code words for a certain racial stereotype - in the future be prepared for
the PCers to require that you use less obvious language.
But here's something to consider, Vrabel was drafted in the 3rd round(last pick of the round) and we had to go into the first to grab Babin. Being an astute shopper on Draft Day also has its rewards over the long term.
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Old 02-08-2005   #4
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
I really think we need to also take note of the fact that Vrabel plays TE on occassion & quite succesfully too. I'm not sure if Babin has the hands but I know of one very good DE from Oklahoma who is a senior that would make an outstanding OLB & has played TE in both College and High School by the name of Dan Cody (6'5" 270) not to mention that Vrabel, Babin & Cody strike me as blue collar, lunch pale types classic overachievers.
Why don't we just let our tight ends worry about playing tight end? Seems like a good idea to me...
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Old 02-08-2005   #5
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
All code words for a certain racial stereotype - in the future be prepared for
the PCers to require that you use less obvious language.
The only thing racial in this thread is your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
But here's something to consider, Vrabel was drafted in the 3rd round(last pick of the round) and we had to go into the first to grab Babin. Being an astute shopper on Draft Day also has its rewards over the long term.
Here is something else to consider. Picking up talent in the draft is not like buying a can of beans. There may not be multiple copies of the same can in the draft. If you have one guy you like and there are no others you feel can do the job it ramps up where you have to take a guy when it comes to draft order. Each year is very different, and there are 31 other teams looking at the same talent base.
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Old 02-08-2005   #6
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
If you have one guy you like and there are no others you feel can do the job it ramps up where you have to take a guy when it comes to draft order. Each year is very different, and there are 31 other teams looking at the same talent base.
I've become convinced that trading up is a pure suckers bet. The guy ahead of you has something you want, so you begin dealing with him from a position of weakness because you have to induce him to make a trade. So obviously, I'm all for trading down and its an opportunity to improve the aggregate value of your draft. Otherwise, stay put and take the Best Player on the Board when you're turn rolls around.
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Old 02-08-2005   #7
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I wouldn't mind trading down a bit this year. A) this would be our 4th year in a row picking a player in the half of the draft. Paying one player that high salary will take it toll on you later on as cap figures become more escalated. Sometimes its better to have a couple of good players than one overpaid player and several subpar ones. B) I have the notion that this draft is not as bad as everyone is seeing. There are several project 3rd round guys that could be starters. If we traded down a bit a got extra picks, then that would fill the gaps we had last year when we traded up. c) the talent level at #13 doesnt seem to any different than 20-23, but that all depends on who is falling. I still never understood how the Patriots ended up with Vince Wilfork .
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Old 02-08-2005   #8
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
But here's something to consider, Vrabel was drafted in the 3rd round(last pick of the round) and we had to go into the first to grab Babin. Being an astute shopper on Draft Day also has its rewards over the long term.
Who would you liked the Texans to take for the position in the 2nd to 3rd round? I dont see a single player who was going to convert DE to 3-4 OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round.
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Old 02-08-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Who would you liked the Texans to take for the position in the 2nd to 3rd round? I dont see a single player who was going to convert DE to 3-4 OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round.

i think what he's saying is if Vrabel can do all them things after coming out of the third round than babin should be able to coming out of the first round !
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Old 02-08-2005   #10
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
i think what he's saying is if Vrabel can do all them things after coming out of the third round than babin should be able to coming out of the first round !
I guess I just dont understand where you are coming from. If Vrabel can do all what things? His freshman year he had 17 tackles, and 1.5 sacks over 15 games. Vrabel started rackin up the numbers when he went to the pats.
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Old 02-08-2005   #11
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haha DC rock im not even the one who made the comment i was just telling ya why he was saying what he was saying.
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Old 02-08-2005   #12
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Quote:
His freshman year he had 17 tackles, and 1.5 sacks over 15 games
I'm guessing you mean his rookie season..........who did he play for?

You gotta understand when you compare 2 players like Vrabel and Babin, they better be playing in the same system. Yes they both play in the 3-4, but they don't play in the same 3-4 system. Vrabel gets more chances to blitz. Babin sits back more and plays technique. That being said, Babin is getting more sacks with less attempts to rush the passer unlike Vrabel, which is a good thing. You but Babin in the Patriots system that blitz 6 guys at once, I bet he would have 6.5-8 sacks this year, a very good number for a OLB.
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Old 02-09-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Who would you liked the Texans to take for the position in the 2nd to 3rd round? I dont see a single player who was going to convert DE to 3-4 OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round.
The point I'm trying to make is that the NEs of the NFL are wise and patient shoppers on Draft day. Take what the Draft gives you, don't force it and end
up overpaying for a certain player type because its a need. Afterall, we still have many needs.
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Old 02-09-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
The point I'm trying to make is that the NEs of the NFL are wise and patient shoppers on Draft day. Take what the Draft gives you, don't force it and end
up overpaying for a certain player type because its a need. Afterall, we still have many needs.
When you already have an existing team built you can be more patient and cherry pick talent as it lays. When you are building a team from scratch there are times when you need to be a bit more active. We stockpiled picks to trade up when we found a prospect we liked. That happened in the Babin situation. I think that you will find that the team brings in players in a different manner when it is a mature team. Players don't grow on trees...When you see a guy you think solves a hole on your team and you had the extra picks to trade up, it seems to me that it is the natural move. From what I saw of Laboy he is not a natural linebacker. Babin is likely gone by the time we pick in the 2nd. If you like the guy you make the move. The draft was a deep one so we gave up one first day pick to have two first rounders and took several players on the second day. We had as many rookies make this team as anyone in the NFL....even with the trade.
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Old 02-09-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Who would you liked the Texans to take for the position in the 2nd to 3rd round? I dont see a single player who was going to convert DE to 3-4 OLB in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Trent Cole
Tyler King
Bill Swancutt

dayII

Adell Duckett
Jonathan Jackson
Brady Poppinga
Ryan Riddle

Of course Dan Cody is second on my first round OLB list wish list

Matt Roth
Dan Cody
David Pollack
Shawne Merriman

It amazes me how many people think that we need a first round DLineman and not a linebacker. Last time I checked, including Payne, we have three quality starters (Walker and Robaire) and two quality backups (Sears and Deloach) in the twodeep of the DLine (six slots). In the linebacker squad (eight slots), we have two starters (Babin and Sharper) and two backups (Wong and Peek).

Go back to the Browns game, when Foreman and Peek were inactive, can anyone name the second string LBs for the day?

If you said Acholonu, Anderson, Monk, and Orr than give yourself a big pat on the back.

I think that Houston having the largest concentration of Louisiana State alumni in the world has more than a little to do with the concept of the great need for a DE at 13 than anything else.
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Old 02-09-2005   #16
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astrofan my man,
This team has some depth/potential at LB. Babin and Peek will step it up this season. Dline is an issue, there is no push so our OLBs are getting double teamed every play. This team needs to start going for instant help, not more future projects.
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Old 02-09-2005   #17
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Default 3/4 defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatikid
astrofan my man,
This team has some depth/potential at LB. Babin and Peek will step it up this season. Dline is an issue, there is no push so our OLBs are getting double teamed every play. This team needs to start going for instant help, not more future projects.
In theory, the 3/4 is suppose to offer several options-- 1 is to put pressure
on the QB and another is to drop LB's into pass coverage. With #1, you
want your DL to tie up as many OL as possible, which opens lanes for the
LB to get pressure/sacks on the QB because there are not enough offensive
people to stop the defensive people (our own offense can attest to this).
How many times did the Pats do this to the Eagles Sunday?

We have fewer sacks (or close to it) than any other team in the league
using a defense designed to create sacks. So, why does Capers use the
3/4?
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Old 02-10-2005   #18
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Default

look at our interceptions though.

If you could have a sack.. or an interception.. which would you prefer?

Sacks are more fun to brag about.. but interceptions win games.


We dont need a sack happy defense to win.. however.. if we could just get a playmaker or two in the front seven.. someone of Dwight Freeney or The Freak quality.. someone that offenses have to gameplan around.. then we could provide a quality pass rush with just 4 rushers or so.. and we could also maintain a dominant passing defense.
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Old 02-10-2005   #19
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Exclamation Careful

You're going to wake up Mr. "Babin is a master" from his coma...
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Old 02-10-2005   #20
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"Sacks are more fun to brag about.. but interceptions win games."

Yes, winning is what it is all about, but when you add pressure plus sacks
it is going to be a much bigger factor than getting 1 or 2 interceptions per
game, if your'e lucky. Look how many times we failed on 3rd and long last
year, while using very little pressure. Turn overs are nice but being able
to stop the opponent by them alone is not going to work...
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