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Old 08-08-2009   #61
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

I cherish the fact that this thread exists; talking about franchising a top notch player and all. Think back to the dog days of our organization when nobody could objectively chat about anything without getting in extremely heated arguments of dc or vy or whoever. It's gratifying to read posts with the "team first" attitude.

Some enjoyable reading in here...

I'm on the Dunta shut your c holster and play ball team...obviously.
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Old 08-08-2009   #62
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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I cherish the fact that this thread exists; talking about franchising a top notch player and all. Think back to the dog days of our organization when nobody could objectively chat about anything without getting in extremely heated arguments of dc or vy or whoever. It's gratifying to read posts with the "team first" attitude.

Some enjoyable reading in here...

I'm on the Dunta shut your c holster and play ball team...obviously.
Good times, huh? I felt like every post then had to end with
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Old 08-08-2009   #63
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
except for the fact that Smith won't have him for this season and this is supposed to be THE year. in my opinion it's a win lose. lets say he signs over the rights to the franchise tag next year. Dunta comes to camp and is ready to roll opening day. lets assume he stays healthy and has a productive year. now, next year comes around and lets say that Dunta doesn't want to stay here. do you really want a guy who doesn't want to be here becoming this big distraction in the locker room? i mean i know thats whats happening this year but we NEED him at this point. so, assuming he wants to leave he signs elsewhere and we move on with Reeves Bennett Quin Molden McCain and probably a high draft pick next year.

now, Smith doesn't sign the rights over, DR shows up opening day without a CLUE what is going on, the secondary is as much as you can expect with the guys that are on the team, DR doesn't have start playing like DR until week 4 or 5 and next offseason we go through this entire process AGAIN. pick the one you fancy.
Dunta will have to play his best football this year if he wants a payday next season. Period. I'm with the crowd that says let him fly in just before the season starts and then pull the offer off the table. You are too late to be a part of the team this season. I'm not paying you nearly $10 million dollars for less than a full season. Bye.

We get no compensation but you cut out a cancer before it spreads.
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Old 08-08-2009   #64
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Default Texans Should be Careful with Robinson

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/6565222.html

Another piece on Robinson. I wish he'd just get in camp and get on with the season. If he plays well, he'll cash in next year, also, tag or no tag.
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Old 08-08-2009   #65
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Default Re: Dunta speak about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by swtbound07 View Post
football players want job security. In a year to year league, wanting a multi-year deal to set yourself up financially isn't selfish. I wouldn't want to be the guy who never gets a big contract, gets tagged repeatedly and discarded. He has proved to me that he is our best cornerback. I'd like him for a longterm deal. I also think the franchise tag screws his life up if he gets injured. I wouldn't take the tag 2 straight years. Thats playing russian roulette with your money for the rest of your life. I think everybody in here throwing stones at him doesn't understand the business nature of this game and doesn't realize how important of a piece he is to our secondary. I wish dunta the best and hope he gets the long term security he wants and the money he deserves, and I hope its with the Texans, because we won't find another Dunta Robinson
Aaron Glen was on 610 the other morning, it's linked in the other Dunta thread, in the interview they told Aaron, Dunta turned down $23M guaranteed, and Glenn goes that would have been one of the highest paid CB in football.

Now that offer if true, is worth more than Dunta is worth, until he becomes a true pro bowler. IMO.

Now if he get hurt this season, then he screwed up not taking the money.

If he has a great year and again does not agree to a great offer, then he could be franchised for around $12M. Still less than was reportedly offered, again, Dunta screwed up in not sign the offer this off season.

Any person that cannot survive on $20M for the rest of his life, is messed up. Dunta has an inflated view of himself, IMO. He lost money with every move he has made in this negotiation. And maybe heading to less money this year.
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Old 08-08-2009   #66
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Default Re: Dunta speak about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Same question then - why doesn't Smith just agree to not franchise tag next year?
Because it means Dunta walks with nothing for the Texans in return. Sure a year later we might get a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick.

I say tell his agent to work out a trade, go find a team. He will have to sign his offer sheet to be traded.

Not many teams will be willing to pay him $9.8M
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Old 08-08-2009   #67
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

I'm not sure what I'm going to write is possible or not. Why can't his agent get a team to agree to a deal (IIRC the F-tag Dunta's under allows that) and then we just do the F-tag at a lower rate that corresponds to the new agreed amount so that the acquiring team isn't hit with a 10 million dollar amount. I know we can't up the F-tag amount, but can the player agree to a lesser amount? Then we turn around and agree to less than the 2 first round picks that would be normal. Heck, I would go for just a 3rd at this point. Just spitballing and like I said, I'm not sure that would be allowed. Of course it would require an agent to stop grandstanding his client and get out and beat the bushes to find a deal.
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Old 08-08-2009   #68
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Default Re: Dunta speak about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by JimC View Post
Adding to this, I don't think the Texans WANT him back after next year. They have been drafting cornerbacks every year, and they look to have a pretty good group now. By the end of this year, Bennett and Molden should be ready to start, Reeves will be available as a backup/nickel corner, and Quin and McCain will be waiting in the wings as the next generation. Plus, they are likely to draft another one next year.

I think the Texans believe that 3rd, 4th and 5th year mid-round picks are the most cost-effective solutions at cornerback. Such players are experienced enough to be coached up, but young enough to be at their peak athletic ability. They are also early enough in their career to be restricted free agents, so they are inexpensive. Offering a 6th or 7th year corner a big long-term contract just ensures he will be on the roster when he finally loses a step. If I am right about this philosophy, the Texans will draft a corner in the 3rd or 4th round nearly every year. (They have done this in the last 3 years.)

The Texans play a great deal of man coverage, and they like fast cover corners. Dunta is better against the run than in man coverage, and fits better in a zone scheme where he can stay close to the line of scrimage. He has great leadership qualities, but he is currently acting like a diva and that undermines his leadership.

He is a poor fit for their scheme, and has become a pain to deal with. They need one more year to develop Bennett and Molden into starters, and to get Quin ready to see the field. Unless something unforeseen happens, they won't need or want Dunta next year.

Franchising Dunta again is the last thing the Texans want to do. They simply can't afford to set a precedent for future franchised players to follow.
Great post!
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Old 08-08-2009   #69
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Sounds fair to me.
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Old 08-08-2009   #70
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Default Re: Dunta speak about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by PHAROAH View Post
Trade him now and get him out of here and sign Chris Mcalister to a two year deal and call it a day no need to waste time on a guy that doesn't want to be in houston we can find players who want to be here with that 10 million.
Did you read the article at all??????
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Old 08-08-2009   #71
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

At this point Im fairly apathetic about the whole deal. Honestly I just want it over and done with, regardless of what happens.

The sooner this issue is resolved the sooner the team can concentrate on what really matters, getting the defense function properly so we can kick some serious ash...
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Old 08-08-2009   #72
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

For Robinson its an issue about geography not money. He does not want to be playing ball here in Houston and/or he's got another city/team he wants to living in/playing for. So forget about the congract terms, that's not the issue here. Where does he want to go ? I have no idea, but it's not Houston, TX.
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Old 08-08-2009   #73
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Default Re: Dunta speak about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
To me it seems more and more like the team is handling this the wrong way...

Why in the hell would you franchise a guy two years in a row that you think isn't worth a big contract...
Maybe they don't want to make that promise because they don't want to set a precedent that other players will expect. They might not have any plans on franchising him next season, but don't want to set themselves up.

As far as trading him, I don't think they would get better than a 3rd round pick for him right now. If he comes back, has a great season, and stays healthy, they might be able to trade him for a late 2nd. A lot would depend on what the corner depth is in FA and in the draft next year.
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Old 08-08-2009   #74
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by Shaft75 View Post
I cherish the fact that this thread exists; talking about franchising a top notch player and all. Think back to the dog days of our organization when nobody could objectively chat about anything without getting in extremely heated arguments of dc or vy or whoever. It's gratifying to read posts with the "team first" attitude.

Some enjoyable reading in here...

I'm on the Dunta shut your c holster and play ball team...obviously.
I'm in favor of a sign and trade. Get him out of here in return for someone else.

Dunta shows up the last week of camp, he better expect to ride the bench for 3 weeks while he gets in shape and learns the calls. If he insists on starting, then its going to be fun to watch the Jets pick on him. And if he blows a coverage, the fans will give him Hell.
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Old 08-08-2009   #75
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by edo783 View Post
I'm not sure what I'm going to write is possible or not. Why can't his agent get a team to agree to a deal (IIRC the F-tag Dunta's under allows that) and then we just do the F-tag at a lower rate that corresponds to the new agreed amount so that the acquiring team isn't hit with a 10 million dollar amount. I know we can't up the F-tag amount, but can the player agree to a lesser amount? Then we turn around and agree to less than the 2 first round picks that would be normal. Heck, I would go for just a 3rd at this point. Just spitballing and like I said, I'm not sure that would be allowed. Of course it would require an agent to stop grandstanding his client and get out and beat the bushes to find a deal.
I believe no negotiations can go on at all until the tag is signed. If he would sign, then somebody could offer him a contract he was happy with but not sign a formal offer sheet and then negotiate lower compensation between the teams. That's what we tried to do with Pace.
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Old 08-08-2009   #76
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

It seems that dunta and his agent both fail to understand the nfl and the rules everyone associated with it must follow . They seem to want to make there own rules and try to make the nfl follow them . The deadline for negotiating has passed and everyone but dunta knows this , i can assure you Rick Smith does . If this guy waits till the 1st weeks game to show up he will not play , i have come to know Kubiak well enough to know this to be certain .
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Old 08-08-2009   #77
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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It seems that dunta and his agent both fail to understand the nfl and the rules everyone associated with it must follow . They seem to want to make there own rules and try to make the nfl follow them . The deadline for negotiating has passed and everyone but dunta knows this , i can assure you Rick Smith does . If this guy waits till the 1st weeks game to show up he will not play , i have come to know Kubiak well enough to know this to be certain .
Dunta and his agent are following the rules. So is the team.
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Old 08-08-2009   #78
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by pappy View Post
It seems that dunta and his agent both fail to understand the nfl and the rules everyone associated with it must follow . They seem to want to make there own rules and try to make the nfl follow them . The deadline for negotiating has passed and everyone but dunta knows this , i can assure you Rick Smith does . If this guy waits till the 1st weeks game to show up he will not play , i have come to know Kubiak well enough to know this to be certain .
Dunta is no longer empolyed in the NFL. He can do whatever he wants. He's a common applicant who is restricted to emploment with only the Houston Texans.

I was glad to finally hear from Dunta Robinson. His side does not sound so lopsided after all.

Business as usual in the NFL. Wake me up on September 13th. I bet he starts.
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Old 08-08-2009   #79
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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So, you think that is an acceptable negotiations tactic? I have negotiated multi-million dollar deals all over the world (some in the 10 digit area) and I have yet to try that tactic. Lets see, you verbally slap a person in the face, set up a major hostile atmosphere and then expect to have things progress from there? I know some folks think you gain a tactical advantage if you do that, but all you do is dig a deep hole of hostility that is VERY difficult to dig out of. You keep things civil and work to identify common areas of agreement then identify areas of disagreement and then work those one at a time to a mutually agreeable conclusion. It takes time, firmness, willingness and a little finesse. One of the most important things in a deal is to be willing to walk away if it isn't right or in this case, throw the F-tag to protect the corporate asset.
I've heard that RS is a jerk from more than one person and have heard stories from people I trust about ex-players that say this in private. My view is that RS may be a great talent evaluator but he doesn't have much finesse.
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Old 08-08-2009   #80
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Default Re: Dunta speaks about Returning and the Franchise tag

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
For Robinson its an issue about geography not money. He does not want to be playing ball here in Houston and/or he's got another city/team he wants to living in/playing for. So forget about the congract terms, that's not the issue here. Where does he want to go ? I have no idea, but it's not Houston, TX.
Two points:

The idea that Dunta doesn't want to be in Houston seems to me to fall into the category of "If you say it enough times with enough certainty, almost everyone will eventually buy into it hook, line and sinker". There's lots of instances of athletes demonstrating what appeared to be great animosity towards a city (or more correctly the franchise based in a certain city), and then signing on long-term. I've heard nothing from Dunta that makes me certain that he's dead-set on leaving Houston in the rearview mirror. Body language analysis, word parsing, and "I know a guy who knows Dunta" don't mean too much to me on things like this. Besides, I also know that even if I'm totally wrong, and Dunta is dead-set on leaving Houston, it's amazing how things can change if the Texans give him enough money (or the other 31 NFL teams don't give him enough money). Yes it's about money - it's always about money.

Second, if my first point is off-base, The Texans still have the ability to guarantee (if they so choose) that for at least the next two years, Dunta either plays football for them, or he doesn't play NFL football.
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