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Old 08-05-2009   #1
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Default AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

On Antonio Smith's replacement Calais Campbell:

Quote:
"He's got some big shoes to fill," defensive coordinator Bill Davis said.

"He's going to have to fill some big shoes right now," inside linebacker Karlos Dansby said.

Smith never made a Pro Bowl in five seasons with the Cardinals but he developed into a consistent, productive player. He was a force in the Cardinals' playoff run and a popular player among his teammates. They loved his personality and his perseverance.

Taken in the fifth round in 2004, Smith was cut once, and then played in Europe before eventually becoming a starter.

"It was hard to lose Antonio," Dansby said. "He had been around for five, six years and we had grown a bond together."
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/card...pbell0805.html

Nice to see former teammates of AS lamenting his departure.
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Old 08-05-2009   #2
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Always good to see. You can usually sense when they are happy to part, not so in this case, I for one am defitinitely happy about that.
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Old 08-06-2009   #3
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

I really hope he makes the same impact here.
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Old 08-06-2009   #4
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

quite a different tune than when we took Victor Riley away from the Chiefs...
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Old 08-06-2009   #5
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

I wonder what fans have to say.
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Old 08-06-2009   #6
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
quite a different tune than when we took Victor Riley away from the Chiefs...
Or Jordan Black.
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Old 08-06-2009   #7
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
I wonder what fans have to say.
"Actually, I don't believe the Cardinals have made any attempt to bring him back. As far as I know they aren't going to try and re-sign Antonio so the OP might want to just go ahead and get angry now and get it out of the way. I'm not sure why they don't seem to want him back, but probably has something to do with how much money he wants."
......

"We simply don't have that money If we're gonna try and keep this Super Bowl team together....losing Antonio means keeping/extedning other more important guys like Warner, Dansby, and Q....

Dunno bout you, but I'd be angrier if we let Warner walk, or not give new deals that keep guys like Q, Wilson, Dockett, Rolle, and Dansby than I would if we let Antonio walk.

Think of him as Calvin Pace..."
.......

"I heard something about the Cards wanting to match offer he received that would be "in their range", which I'd be very happy with, but then again, his final offers probably won't be "in our range"..."
........

"I'll be furious if we keep him and overpay him. Was Calvin Pace worth $42 million? I would like to have either one or both of them in a Cardinals uniform, but not for that money.

This team's success is not hinging on Antonio Smith."
............

"We have MR CAMPBELL ready to step in Like i have been preaching the depth of this team must be protected. i love Smith but we can not bust the bank on Smith When We have a very good player in the wake. And very good players under contract like Fitz, Wilson and DRC. "
..........

"Smith is no Peppers. It's not like we just lost Reggie White. He is solid, but he is a replacable player. When you have unreplaceable players to sign, guys like Smith walk. "
........

"IIRC NFL Network says Smith got 5 years, $35 MILLION! No way is he a $7 million/year DE! Campbell will step in and there will be no difference whatsover. The savings will average out to about $6 million a year."
.........

"I love Antonio Smith and I hate to see him go, but we have too many other areas of need to pay him that much money."
..........

"I also want to point out that the Texans signed him meaning that teams such as the Eagles, Giants, Pats, Steelers, and Ravens agreed with us that he wasn't worth that much money to their team."
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Old 08-06-2009   #8
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
"Actually, I don't believe the Cardinals have made any attempt to bring him back. As far as I know they aren't going to try and re-sign Antonio so the OP might want to just go ahead and get angry now and get it out of the way. I'm not sure why they don't seem to want him back, but probably has something to do with how much money he wants."
......

"We simply don't have that money If we're gonna try and keep this Super Bowl team together....losing Antonio means keeping/extedning other more important guys like Warner, Dansby, and Q....

Dunno bout you, but I'd be angrier if we let Warner walk, or not give new deals that keep guys like Q, Wilson, Dockett, Rolle, and Dansby than I would if we let Antonio walk.

Think of him as Calvin Pace..."
.......

"I heard something about the Cards wanting to match offer he received that would be "in their range", which I'd be very happy with, but then again, his final offers probably won't be "in our range"..."
........

"I'll be furious if we keep him and overpay him. Was Calvin Pace worth $42 million? I would like to have either one or both of them in a Cardinals uniform, but not for that money.

This team's success is not hinging on Antonio Smith."
............

"We have MR CAMPBELL ready to step in Like i have been preaching the depth of this team must be protected. i love Smith but we can not bust the bank on Smith When We have a very good player in the wake. And very good players under contract like Fitz, Wilson and DRC. "
..........

"Smith is no Peppers. It's not like we just lost Reggie White. He is solid, but he is a replacable player. When you have unreplaceable players to sign, guys like Smith walk. "
........

"IIRC NFL Network says Smith got 5 years, $35 MILLION! No way is he a $7 million/year DE! Campbell will step in and there will be no difference whatsover. The savings will average out to about $6 million a year."
.........

"I love Antonio Smith and I hate to see him go, but we have too many other areas of need to pay him that much money."
..........

"I also want to point out that the Texans signed him meaning that teams such as the Eagles, Giants, Pats, Steelers, and Ravens agreed with us that he wasn't worth that much money to their team."

That last comment isn't even true. He had scheduled visits with the Bucs and Giants after Houston but we didn't let him leave and bowled him over with our offer. I also think that those fans' confidence in an unproven guy who hasn't played in Calais Campbell is foolish. I understand the financials of it and they had higher priorities and only so much money but for those fans to downplay his departure and act like it won't affect the defense is foolish. The defensive coordinator and team leader Dansby don't agree with the fans, who you gonna believe?
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Old 08-07-2009   #9
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
That last comment isn't even true. He had scheduled visits with the Bucs and Giants after Houston but we didn't let him leave and bowled him over with our offer. I also think that those fans' confidence in an unproven guy who hasn't played in Calais Campbell is foolish. I understand the financials of it and they had higher priorities and only so much money but for those fans to downplay his departure and act like it won't affect the defense is foolish. The defensive coordinator and team leader Dansby don't agree with the fans, who you gonna believe?
You answer your own question, heh heh!

It serves no purpose for the DC and Dansby to talk down Antonio.
He wasn't a bad player to begin with.

If you really think he deserves the money, pray tell me what you think we can expect from Antonio this coming year?
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Old 08-07-2009   #10
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
You answer your own question, heh heh!

It serves no purpose for the DC and Dansby to talk down Antonio.
He wasn't a bad player to begin with.

If you really think he deserves the money, pray tell me what you think we can expect from Antonio this coming year?
I expect a big impact on 1st and 2nd downs, run stuffs and disruption on the left side of the line. 3rd downs I expect a push up the middle and I expect double teams from C's and G's, leaving Mario and Barwin with one-on-ones vs. tackles/tight ends. I'm not big on defensive stats so I'm not gonna predict tackles and sack totals but I expect that we'll be saying Antonio Smith was worth the cash in a few years when hopefully our defense performs as a top 10-15 unit.
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Old 08-07-2009   #11
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
I expect a big impact on 1st and 2nd downs, run stuffs and disruption on the left side of the line. 3rd downs I expect a push up the middle and I expect double teams from C's and G's, leaving Mario and Barwin with one-on-ones vs. tackles/tight ends. I'm not big on defensive stats so I'm not gonna predict tackles and sack totals but I expect that we'll be saying Antonio Smith was worth the cash in a few years when hopefully our defense performs as a top 10-15 unit.
Why a few years?
He's a vet. He needs to perform now.
We should be able to say at year end that he's well worth the dough!

The opponents mostly let their tackles work one on one with our DEs last year since we had them line up further outside.

The NT saw the double team the most.
I don't think they will put him (Antonio) at the nose.

Bulman had 4 sacks, 7 QB Hurries, 8 QB Hits, 1 Pass Batted Down.
I just lump it up to a total of 20.

Surely, you should have a certain number for him.
What's the minimum so that we don't have to whine about LACK of production and WASTE of money in the first year?
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Old 08-07-2009   #12
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Why a few years?
He's a vet. He needs to perform now.
We should be able to say at year end that he's well worth the dough!

The opponents mostly let their tackles work one on one with our DEs last year since we had them line up further outside.

The NT saw the double team the most.
I don't think they will put him (Antonio) at the nose.

Bulman had 4 sacks, 7 QB Hurries, 8 QB Hits, 1 Pass Batted Down.
I just lump it up to a total of 20.

Surely, you should have a certain number for him.
What's the minimum so that we don't have to whine about LACK of production and WASTE of money in the first year?
By "in a few years" I meant he'll be productive for more than just one season but many seasons to come...

I think more than anything he (and Barwin, Bulman) solves the problem we had of always having that weak link on the line that would get washed in runs and get no push in passes. Our ends worked vs. tackles yes but the havoc was coming from only one side of the line, with a push from the middle coming seldomly. Assuming Barwin and Bulman makes more of an impact on 3rd down than Earl Cochran (I just laughed out loud when I typed that), there should be pressure from both sides AND the middle. Pressure is contagious in pass protection and when its coming from all angles it can confuse and frustrate a line.
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Old 08-07-2009   #13
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Why a few years?
He's a vet. He needs to perform now.
We should be able to say at year end that he's well worth the dough!

The opponents mostly let their tackles work one on one with our DEs last year since we had them line up further outside.

The NT saw the double team the most.
I don't think they will put him (Antonio) at the nose.

Bulman had 4 sacks, 7 QB Hurries, 8 QB Hits, 1 Pass Batted Down.
I just lump it up to a total of 20.

Surely, you should have a certain number for him.
What's the minimum so that we don't have to whine about LACK of production and WASTE of money in the first year?
And stat-wise, *shrugs* I don't even know. I think Antonio will always be a guy whose better than the stats suggest so to even put a number on it would undersell him I think. 7ish sacks with an above average number of QB hits and hurries would be my expectation.
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Old 08-07-2009   #14
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
I really hope he makes the same impact here.
I think he'll actually make more of an impact because our scheme is gonna be heavy on penetration & he'll be moved around & we have a premeir pass rusher opposite him. I think bush sees a lesser version of sean jones from the oiler days in him.
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Old 08-07-2009   #15
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Don't y'all think its about time the Texans score a HIT with their big off season free-agent acquisition
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Old 08-07-2009   #16
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

OK, so here's the deal.

I think Antonio's $7M average salary is top fifteen for DE (including 3-4 DEs).
We'll make it top 20 to account.
He should be in top 15 for 4-3 DEs.

I have tallied the combo of sacks+QB Hits+QB Pressure for the 4-3 DEs.

3 had more than 70 (Allen, Abraham, and Peppers)
4 had more than 60 (including Mario 12+14+39)
6 if pro-rated for a couple of starters who had an injury.
5 had more than 50
7 if pro-rated
6 had more than 45 (including part-time starters or subs)
7 if pro-rated
4 had more than 40 (including PT/subs, there were 3 in the category 40-49)
8 if pro-rated
10 had more than 35 (including 3 PT/subs)

Chris Long had 33 (4+9+20)
Babin had 27 in 7 games (2+4+21). That would pro-rate to 61, LOL!
(But I did not pro-rate to include any nonstarter in the above list).

Don't know if any of them occasionally slide inside, where there are fewer opportunities. I will disregard that.

Therefore, Antonio needs to end up with at least 45 to deserve the money.
At least 40 to say OK, we'll take that.
And less than 35 should be considered as a bust!


Last year he had 4+10+13 for a total of 27 (starting 10 games, and backup 6, dunno how many snaps he got in those games he didn't start).

I don't have his full figure for 07.
But he had 21 in 8 games that he started (pro-rated = 42)

And that was as a 3-4 DE who would have have fewer opportunities since they will see occasional double team, or the QB would roll to the outside away from his area).

Okoye had 29 (1+3+25) in 14 games pro-rated to 33 as a DT if he had 16 starts.
That was not bad for a DT, not bad at all. Especially when he wasn't 100% in some games he played.

So the number I proposed for Antonio, I think, are quite realistic.

If he slides inside, I can always count the number of snaps and adjust accordingly.

Any idea?
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Old 08-07-2009   #17
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

Can we combine that somehow with tackles? I don't think we should be ignoring the impact on the run.

Also, how did Weaver turn up on that list?

The real point for me is upgrading from Weaver. I'd like to see a 40 on your QB pressure scale but I'll take anything over 2-3x over Weaver.
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Old 08-07-2009   #18
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
OK, so here's the deal.

I think Antonio's $7M average salary is top fifteen for DE (including 3-4 DEs).
We'll make it top 20 to account.
He should be in top 15 for 4-3 DEs.

I have tallied the combo of sacks+QB Hits+QB Pressure for the 4-3 DEs.

3 had more than 70 (Allen, Abraham, and Peppers)
4 had more than 60 (including Mario 12+14+39)
6 if pro-rated for a couple of starters who had an injury.
5 had more than 50
7 if pro-rated
6 had more than 45 (including part-time starters or subs)
7 if pro-rated
4 had more than 40 (including PT/subs, there were 3 in the category 40-49)
8 if pro-rated
10 had more than 35 (including 3 PT/subs)

Chris Long had 33 (4+9+20)
Babin had 27 in 7 games (2+4+21). That would pro-rate to 61, LOL!
(But I did not pro-rate to include any nonstarter in the above list).

Don't know if any of them occasionally slide inside, where there are fewer opportunities. I will disregard that.

Therefore, Antonio needs to end up with at least 45 to deserve the money.
At least 40 to say OK, we'll take that.
And less than 35 should be considered as a bust!

Last year he had 4+10+13 for a total of 27 (starting 10 games, and backup 6, dunno how many snaps he got in those games he didn't start).

I don't have his full figure for 07.
But he had 21 in 8 games that he started (pro-rated = 42)

And that was as a 3-4 DE who would have have fewer opportunities since they will see occasional double team, or the QB would roll to the outside away from his area).

Okoye had 29 (1+3+25) in 14 games pro-rated to 33 as a DT if he had 16 starts.
That was not bad for a DT, not bad at all. Especially when he wasn't 100% in some games he played.

So the number I proposed for Antonio, I think, are quite realistic.

If he slides inside, I can always count the number of snaps and adjust accordingly.

Any idea?
How would this work if we were talkin' CBs???

And from what site did you get your data?
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Old 08-07-2009   #19
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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How would this work if we were talkin' CBs???

And from what site did you get your data?
Crap, I just typed a long post and lost it!

Anyway, it was Maddict5 who gave the link to that site:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/csta...pe=r&playerid=

But I just found some discrepancies, so I don't know we can use those numbers.
I think they can serve as a general guide, but some stats can be incorrect.

I don't trust in stats anyway, just want to throw 'em numbers around for fun, that is all.
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Old 08-07-2009   #20
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Default Re: AZ Cards talk Antonio Smith

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Crap, I just typed a long post and lost it!

Anyway, it was Maddict5 who gave the link to that site:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/csta...pe=r&playerid=

But I just found some discrepancies, so I don't know we can use those numbers.
I think they can serve as a general guide, but some stats can be incorrect.

I don't trust in stats anyway, just want to throw 'em numbers around for fun, that is all.
what you talking bout willis
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