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Old 08-07-2009   #161
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooston Texan

Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.
Wow. That is very Machiavellian.
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Old 08-07-2009   #162
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...
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Old 08-07-2009   #163
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...
agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.
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Old 08-07-2009   #164
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.
Which is sad.....
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Old 08-07-2009   #165
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.
It will continue beyond that!
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Old 08-07-2009   #166
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.
WOW lol. who was the second shooter?
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Old 08-07-2009   #167
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Which is sad.....
Very sad but true.
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Old 08-07-2009   #168
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.
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Old 08-07-2009   #169
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.
I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.
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Old 08-07-2009   #170
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

agents offer bad advise, lets blame him come into camp Dunta & disprove the naysayers
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Old 08-07-2009   #171
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.
because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.
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Old 08-07-2009   #172
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.
He is the best CB they have for sure. They are getting younger through the draft so once they get better at CB they should part with Dunte.
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Old 08-07-2009   #173
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

While his absence is certainly causing headaches in the offices of Smith and Kubiak, I doubt it is hurting the locker-room. The players are all in the same boat: they have to maximize their return in this most short-lived of professions, and sometimes that requires bucking the front office. So long as Dunta isn't moping in the locker-room or on the field (as opposed to taking shots at Rick Smith in interviews), he won't hurt chemistry.
Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.
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Old 08-07-2009   #174
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.
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Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.
Yep - even if they switched him to safety, and franchised him again (a tin-foil hat idea to be sure), the tender would be based on the higher of the average of the top-5 at the position, or a 20% (Even more than the quoted post indicates) increase over his previous years salary. That means he would have to be tendered at the approx. $10 Million he'll make this year plus 20% even if he's moved to safety. I guess if you believe they'd move him to safety just to screw him over, it's also possible you believe the Texans would pay almost $12 Million for a safety.

Conspiracy theory effectively killed.

Now they could switch him to safety just to damage his value on the open market next year, but:

That if very unlike the Texans.

That probably wouldn't work.

That would be a pretty darn good example of the phrase "Cutting off your nose to spite your face".
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Old 08-07-2009   #175
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.
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Old 08-07-2009   #176
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

This whole situation seems to me to be just like the situation a couple of years ago between Lance Briggs and the Bears. He was furious they put the tag on him and he vowed to never play another down as a Bear. Then he recanted and said he would play if they promised not to tag him again. He finally showd up for the start of the season...iirc. After the season the Bears were going to tag him again, ande then they worked out a long term deal.

Just saying, this is really not a big deal and happens just about every year.

I do not think Dunta is worth top 5 money, but that is not my decision to make.
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Old 08-07-2009   #177
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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agents offer bad advise, lets blame him come into camp Dunta & disprove the naysayers
& this, I think is the whole problem. Maybe his agent does have offers, or insinuations from other teams. Maybe his agent feels he can get him #1 CB money. Look what Haynesworth got, Eli, Kellen Winslow. There are always GMs looking for CBs, so who knows.

But the Texans have a feeling of what Dunta's worth is.
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Old 08-07-2009   #178
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.
Only if he truly wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.
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Last edited by gary; 08-08-2009 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 08-07-2009   #179
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Only if he truely wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.
Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.
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Old 08-07-2009   #180
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Default Re: "All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

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Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.
While you might be right I think you're counting too much on him wanting to stay because the tag must come off sometime I'd think.
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