Kubiak's future

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I
And regarding being "unsuccessful", I guess there are 20 "unsuccessful" coaches every season since only 12 out of 32 teams make the playoffs. So by that definition, there should be 20 guys looking for jobs every year.

No, that's you twisting words. Here is what I said.

Originally Posted by Lucky

And if the Texans have a 4th consecutive non-winning, non-playoff season (0-fer franchise history, to boot), they should be just as fearless.

That's not one bad season. Just about everyone gets a mulligan. I'm talking about the possibility of 4 non-successful seasons. Which, BTW, I am not predicting.

Did you "genuinely" see 1st year coaches like Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, and Tony Sparano turning their respective franchises around? Just because you can't forecast the possibility, doesn't mean it can't occur.

[BSofA04]

I don't think Kubiak would be fired, even if he went 8-8 again. Mainely because I don't see how firing Kubiak would do more good than bad. First, he has the personel for a very specific type of offense. Hiring someone like Cowher would require bigger o-linemen for a power running game, 3-4 personel for the defense, etc. Short of hiring Shannahan (which wouldn't be different), we'd set ourselves back.

How long of an extension Kubiak gets is dependent on the teams performance in 2009. He won't and shouldn't be fired.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by BSofA04

First, he has the personel for a very specific type of offense.

The WCO is one of the most popular, and duplicated, offenses in the NFL. I'm not suggesting that this coaching staff doesn't bring its own flavor to the WCO. Just that WCO offensive geniuses aren't difficult to find.

Regarding the personnel, Andre Johnson & Steve Slaton could thrive in almost any offense. Matt Schaub isn't even the typical WCO QB. And aside from maybe Chris Myers, the offensive lineman are capable of performing in other systems. That the Texans are tied to this coaching staff, win or lose, due to the talent onhand is unfounded.

[m5kwatts]

Personnel would NOT be a factor in whether or not Kubiak keeps his job, it will be completely performance related. I think his job is safe if he makes the playoffs with very few exceptions otherwise.

McNair knows he has the best roster he's ever had right now. He also knows the Texans would be the most attractive coaching vacancy because of the level of talent on the current roster.

Remember, the Cowboys and Redskins can offer the opportunity to be in the limelight, but there's also the negative side to that as your job is always in question (Zorn, Phillips). And this is my opinion too but I know for a fact Cowher has his eye on the Texans job because I've heard him gush over the squad on CBS halftime shows and he always speaks highly of us. The opportunity to come coach for a great owner in great facilities and weak weak media scrutiny is VERY attractive (factor in no state income tax as well). Pair that with some of the most talented young building blocks in football (Mario, Andre, Demeco, Cushing, Slaton, etc) and the Texans make for a hot coaching opportunity and McNair knows that.

The amount of pressure on Kubiak right now is immense and I don't envy the position he's in because the expectations are very high right now.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Vinny

how many of them have four or five consecutive non-winning, non-playoff seasons?

Tom Landry didn't make the playoffs until his seventh season.
Bill Belichick didn't make the playoffs until his fourth season as a head coach.
Jeff Fisher didn't finish above .500 until his sixth year as a head coach.

It happens.
And I'll bet the Browns wish they'd have been a bit more patient with Belichick.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Tom Landry didn't make the playoffs until his seventh season.

This one doesn't work for me....pre salary cap era...different dynamics.

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Bill Belichick didn't make the playoffs until his fourth season as a head coach.
Jeff Fisher didn't finish above .500 until his sixth year as a head coach.

It happens.
And I'll bet the Browns wish they'd have been a bit more patient with Belichick.

there are always examples of success in a sports league. Just because you can point to a few guys doesn't make the norm.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

No, that's you twisting words. Here is what I said.


That's not one bad season. Just about everyone gets a mulligan. I'm talking about the possibility of 4 non-successful seasons. Which, BTW, I am not predicting.

Did you "genuinely" see 1st year coaches like Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, and Tony Sparano turning their respective franchises around? Just because you can't forecast the possibility, doesn't mean it can't occur.

Given that only 4 of the players who were here when Kubiak showed up are still on the team, I considered 2006 as starting over - 2002 all over again.
Harbaugh, Sparano and Smith all had a core of solid, experienced veteran players who had come from winning teams. That contributed to their "instant" success.
Let's see if those teams sustain that success this year. Sean Payton had a "fantastic" initial season too - taking the Saints to the NFC Championship game. What have they done since?

All I'm saying is that I want us to build a sustainable winning team. Just being able to say "we made the playoffs" is kinda empty if we drop back down into the crapper the very next year. I don't want to relive 2005 ever again.

Maybe Kubiak's the guy to do that, maybe he ain't; time will tell. I just haven't seen anything that makes me think we'll go backwards, a la Capers, with Smithiak in the Head Shed.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Vinny

This one doesn't work for me....pre salary cap era...different dynamics.

there are always examples of success in a sports league. Just because you can point to a few guys doesn't make the norm.

So which is "the norm", instant success like Harbaugh, Smith, and Sparano had last year or steady improvement that stands the test of time and results in a winning franchise?? I'm thinking that building a solid foundation takes a little time. Again, 2002 thru 2005 (and really 2006 since he was stuck with HWWNBN) don't count against the Kubiak regime.
(where's my Sunshine Club button)

[TimeKiller]

Yuck, this thread again.....


I'll be back in the Sunshine Club if anyone wants to join me. The kool-aid is gooooooood.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

So which is "the norm", instant success like Harbaugh, Smith, and Sparano had last year or steady improvement that stands the test of time and results in a winning franchise?? I'm thinking that building a solid foundation takes a little time. Again, 2002 thru 2005 (and really 2006 since he was stuck with HWWNBN) don't count against the Kubiak regime.
(where's my Sunshine Club button)

I'm on record of saying he won't be fired unless he pulls a 3 win season out of his hat....not sure why you want to prove to me he won't be fired 'cause I obviously don't think he will be. If he can't get into the playoffs in half a decade I ain't gonna put my money on him being our coach much longer....don't care how you slice it.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

All I'm saying is that I want us to build a sustainable winning team. Just being able to say "we made the playoffs" is kinda empty if we drop back down into the crapper the very next year. I don't want to relive 2005 ever again.

Maybe Kubiak's the guy to do that, maybe he ain't; time will tell.

Four years is adequate time to tell. Few get that long. As far as the laughable assertion that Miami and Atlanta had superior rosters to the Texans in 2008 or that these teams are flashes in the pan, that's been covered ad nauseam in previous threads.

[norcaltexan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

And if the Texans have a 4th consecutive non-winning, non-playoff season (0-fer franchise history, to boot), they should be just as fearless.

I think it would be a mistake to make a change if we don't have a winning record or make the playoffs. As long as the team continues to improve I'm all for Kubes staying, if they take a step back then it's time to reconsider

[bckey]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I'm on record of saying he won't be fired unless he pulls a 3 win season out of his hat....not sure why you want to prove to me he won't be fired 'cause I obviously don't think he will be. If he can't get into the playoffs in half a decade I ain't gonna put my money on him being our coach much longer....don't care how you slice it.

This sums up my thinking on this as well. Kubiak's job is safe and it should be.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Four years is adequate time to tell. Few get that long. As far as the laughable assertion that Miami and Atlanta had superior rosters to the Texans in 2008 or that these teams are flashes in the pan, that's been covered ad nauseam in previous threads.

so you're saying that the 2008 Dolphins and Falcons rosters were worse than the 2006 Texans and that Sparano and Smith pulled off miracles?? I was comparing first year coaching performances

and you're right, we've been over this before.
but it's dead time and reeeeeally boring.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

so you're saying that the 2008 Dolphins and Falcons rosters were worse than the 2006 Texans and that Sparano and Smith pulled off miracles??

Again, you are making up arguments. What I'm saying is that the Texans roster in 2008 was superior to what the Dolphins and Falcons fielded. The Dolphins and Falcons overachieved. The Texans underachieved. It's really that simple.

[badboy]

What if we have an excellent year and Gary decides to go somewhere else for a kadjillion dollars? Oh wait! I know the answer. We have little Shanny who could then be the youngest NFL head coach in the history of history.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by badboy

What if we have an excellent year and Gary decides to go somewhere else for a kadjillion dollars?

He would have to wait a year, as he is under contract through 2010, for somewhat less than a kadjillion.

Wow, déjà vu.

Originally Posted by Lucky

The Texans' head coach is under contract through the 2010 season.

[HoustonFrog]

Shoot me

Here you go m5kwatts. Tell your boss you need the next few days off to read it.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...ighlight=kubes

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Four years is adequate time to tell. Few get that long. As far as the laughable assertion that Miami and Atlanta had superior rosters to the Texans in 2008 or that these teams are flashes in the pan, that's been covered ad nauseam in previous threads.

It's the constant excuse that Kubiak fans have tried to make for him for the last few years now. All of those other teams had much better rosters and veteran players and it's always been a bunch of bull. All of those franchises were really really bad just like the Texans were and they bounced back quick. Will they last? Who knows, that's the beauty of the NFL in that different teams can step up from year to year and have success.

I think the biggest thing with Kubiak will be how Schaub plays. That's the biggest thing with a ton of HC's is what QB they strap themselves to. Kubes said that he thought he could win with Carr and that didn't happen. People try saying that he just said that to get the job, but they don't know that was the case at all. Then Kubes went out and had us spend a lot on Schaub who has shown potential here and there, but so far hasn't stayed healthy. So a lot will depend on Schaub and if he can stay healthy this season and how well he can play if he does.

And the defense as well. Kubes wanted Bush to get the job, so the defense will have to have a pretty significant improvement as well. Kubes has had a lot of say so in personal so depending on how a well Schaub plays and how well the defense plays will greatly depend on Kubiak's future this season and how the over all team record ends according to those improvements.

[m5kwatts]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Shoot me

Here you go m5kwatts. Tell your boss you need the next few days off to read it.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...ighlight=kubes

Lol. Thats sorta why I started the new one, I need all my vacation days!!